Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

Littlehorny

On the evidence of this 6 nations you could literally write down the England team and then decide who from the other 3 countries would you put in to make the team stronger.
You could argue that Murray and Sexton are the only Irish in with a serious shout at 9 and 10. Sander and Heasli, McGrath and Furlong subs.
From Scotland, Hogg at 15? Don't know after that.
From Wales- North, Warburton , Alwun Jones and Tipiric in with a shout.

Professor Moriarty

Littlehorny wrote: »

On the evidence of this 6 nations you could literally write down the England team and then decide who from the other 3 countries would you put in to make the team stronger.
You could argue that Murray are the only Irish in with a serious shout at 9 and 10. Sander and Heasli, McGrath and Furlong subs.
From Scotland, Hogg at 15? Don't know after that.
From Wales- North, Warburton , Alwun Jones and Tipiric in with a shout.

I was thinking the same thing especially in the context of this weekend. Plus look at their bench with the likes of B Vunipola. As a starting 15, perhaps Furlong and Murray might make it. Hogg at 15. Maybe AWJ instead of Lawes and Warburton for Haskell. Would be hard not to pick English players other than that..

stephen_n

It's Gatland though, you can expect North on the wing. He may also go for Sexton, Farrell & Henshaw as his 10,12,13.

FellasFellas

Sexton is a liability in terms of injury and could be gone in the first 5/10 of every game, which means you're genuinely better off starting Farrell with Sexton on the bench, you can bring on Sexton for one of the centres and shift Farrell across. Or not having Sexton in the 23 at all and have a scrum half and two wingers or centres on the bench like England do; he may not even make it through the first two warm up games against the NZ provincial sides; they'll be full strength and will go at him harder than anyone else.

Fratton Fred

On the strength of recent performances, Joe Launchberry has to be one of the first names on the teamsheet.

He's like the quiet, unassuming kid that's slightly geeky, but discreetly good at everything he does.

English Lurker

Buer wrote: »

I don't think I'm overegging anything. I said he's probably the next most likely candidate to go after Davies as a 13 but his form hasn't been great and he isn't versatile which reduces his chances. I don't think there's anything there to disagree with, really?

Jospeh has been pretty mundane this 6N. He wasn't spectacular in the autumn either, regardless of tries scored, for me. I know fitness was an issue back last year but in conjunction with being left out of the match day squad entirely for Italy, he appears to be someone that Jones sees as expendable. Jones has now had a look at two other guys for the 13 jersey in the past 4 test matches.

Not sure when he started on the wing at test level? Did he come on there against South Africa? Quick look at his stats page on ESPN and he has never been named to start a test at anywhere but centre.

Joseph hasn't started a game on the wing but has covered it within matches, did so at least twice in the 2015 6N and did so for most of the game vs Italy that year.

And if you view his presence or lack thereof vs Italy as more important than his presence when properly fit in every single game England think they might lose, then yes, you're overegging it.

Although not as badly as people suddenly pencilling him in after one great day off of set-piece ball. The question with Joseph is whether his travails in open play are down to him or down to a 12 with close to zero ball running menace, and whether his ability to keep making good defensive reads is more valuable than Huw Jones added power in traffic, not whether he can score hat-tricks against Scotland at Twickenham.


I'm also incredibly puzzled by the amount of people pencilling in Fazlet when he hasn't been a successful international fly-half since 2014 (if coming 2nd in the 6N is successful).


Tbh, I think the amount of English players in people's sides here will go down after a couple of days to reflect and remember what the first three games looked like.

Does pour cold water on a lot of Scots' chances though.

MattD

Vunipola
Hartley
Furlong
Launchbury
Jones
Itoje
Warburton
Vunipola

Murray
Farrell
Daly
Henshaw
Joseph
North
Hogg


McGrath
Best
Cole
Lawes
J.Gray
Stander
Tipuric
Heaslip

Webb
Sexton
Zebo
S.Williams
Davies
Nowell
L.Williams

Healy
George/Owens
Sinckler/WP Nel/Francis
Toner
Haskell/O'Brien

Youngs
Ford/Biggar
Brown/Halfpenny

My 38 man squad there

I think North's return means the Scottish wings miss out. Still think Zebo has as good a chance as any to tour for Lions experience, his attitude, covers back 3, kicking/aerial threat etc. Don't think a back row will have Stander and Vunipola starting, you need someone like Itoje who'll just tackle anything all day.

Annabella1

Think we will currently get 5 players travelling
Mcgrath
Stander
Murray
Sexton
Henshaw

sydthebeat

MattD wrote: »

I think North's return means the Scottish wings miss out. Still think Zebo has as good a chance as any to tour for Lions experience, his attitude, covers back 3, kicking/aerial threat etc. Don't think a back row will have Stander and Vunipola starting, you need someone like Itoje who'll just tackle anything all day.

R Gray will go before Toner.

Nel has only one high level game to prove himself for selection, and he will struggle in that game as the rochelle scrum is very powerful.

Stander going may mean Heaslip looses out for another back rower ie haskell AND o brien

AbusesToilets

sydthebeat wrote: »

R Gray will go before Toner.

Nel has only one high level game to prove himself for selection, and he will struggle in that game as the rochelle scrum is very powerful.

Stander going may mean Heaslip looses out for another back rower ie haskell AND o brien

SOB would be traveling on reputation at the minute, he hasn't done much to distinguish him over his competition.

Erik Shin

Annabella1 wrote: »

Think we will currently get 5 players travelling
Mcgrath
Stander
Murray
Sexton
Henshaw

I think McGrath has done his chances some harm this spring.... Furlong is still in with a shout..

Fratton Fred

MattD wrote: »

Vunipola
Hartley
Furlong
Launchbury
Jones
Itoje
Warburton
Vunipola

Murray
Farrell
Daly
Henshaw
Joseph
North
Hogg


McGrath
Best
Cole
Lawes
J.Gray
Stander
Tipuric
Heaslip

Webb
Sexton
Zebo
S.Williams
Davies
Nowell
L.Williams

Healy
George/Owens
Sinckler/WP Nel/Francis
Toner
Haskell/O'Brien

Youngs
Ford/Biggar
Brown/Halfpenny

My 38 man squad there

I think North's return means the Scottish wings miss out. Still think Zebo has as good a chance as any to tour for Lions experience, his attitude, covers back 3, kicking/aerial threat etc. Don't think a back row will have Stander and Vunipola starting, you need someone like Itoje who'll just tackle anything all day.

No Hogg?

Professor Moriarty

Fratton Fred wrote:

No Hogg?

There under North.

Utopia Parkway

AbusesToilets wrote: »

SOB would be traveling on reputation at the minute, he hasn't done much to distinguish him over his competition.

The injuries seem to have sapped his raw power. Can't bulldoze over opponents like before.

AbusesToilets

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

The injuries seem to have sapped his raw power. Can't bulldoze over opponents like before.

He's always not getting the ball in space. Seems it's more often from a static start into 2 defenders.

Shero1985

Hi, I am an Irish Lions fan living in Auckland and I have 2 spare tickets (section 202) for NZ v Lions 3rd test. Looking to swap for 2 tickets for 1st test. Anyone interested or any advice on how I might go about getting a swap?

Tigerandahalf

Surprised this hasn't been added to given it is the end of the 6 nations.

Rte picked the following earlier

Vunipola George Furlong
AWJ Itoje
Stander Vunipola Tipuric

Murray Sexton
Farrell Joseph
Williams Hogg North


This would be mine
McGrath Owens Furlong
AWJ J Gray
Stander Vunipola Warburton

Webb Sexton
Farrell Henshaw
Willians Halfpenny Hogg

Bench:
Vunipola Hartley Cole
Itoje Tipuric
Murray Biggar
Daly


It is a hard enough team to pick as for me there are very few definite starters. Perhaps AWJ, B Vunipola and Hogg are the only certainties. Maybe Farrell at 12 and L Williams at 11 too. But that is more to do with a lack of rock solid options.

I still think it is worth having Warburton at 7 as he is the best turnover specialist plus he is an option for the lineout. With Stander and Vunipola both good carriers J Gray gives you the balance of workrate and tackling. Neither Stander or Vunipola are options for the lineout and thus the need for Warburton.

I picked Halfpenny at 15 as I think Hogg has defensive issues (tackling, clearance kicks) and Halfpenny is an excellent last man defender, something the Lions will probably need against a quality NZ backline.

Itoje gives you power off the bench and can cover 6 as well.
Tipuric would offer you something more if you were chasing the game and needed a good link man between forwards and backs.

Murray and Biggar are obvious enough choices. They could easily be the starting halfbacks.

Daly then covers all the backline positions.


To sum up having seen the Ire Eng game there is a distinct lack of backline flair available to the Lions. Outside of Hogg there is no Jason Robinson/Shane Williams type player who could create something from nothing.

Edit: I have only 2 English men in that! Not going to happen. Maybe Itoje makes the strongest case for inclusion and maybe Gatland will go for Hartley. Maybe M Vunipola for McGrath.

Tight calls.

Clegg

There is a lot of quality forwards to choose from. The back 5 of the scrum is especially full of talent.

Problem in the centres and in the back three though. Outside centre especially because no one player has stood out. Back three because i worry Gatland will pick on reputation rather than form. RTÉ's side had Joseph starting at 13 but apart from a good performance against Scotland aside he hasn't had a particularly good tournament. Huw Jones was ok as was Davies. Ringrose could even get a call up if we're going by form. His performance against England was every bit as good as any 13's over this tournament. There's no standout which is a bit problematic. 12 will be either Farrell or Henshaw.

Hogg at FB should be a no brainier and I'd have Williams on one wing and Daly on the other. Halfpenny shouldn't even be in the 23 as the only thing he's better at than the others is his goalkicking. Have the feeling he'll be thrown in there anyway, as will North.

irishman86

Dont think HP should even travel. He has done nothing worthy of being a lion besides being Welsh

corny

Yeah can't have 1/2 penny at all. Guy had a shocker against Ireland and always offers nothing in attack. If his kicking isn't needed (its not) he doesn't travel for me.

Tipuric gets a lot of love but Warburton was better in every game for Wales. He's perfect for the highly attritional 'big' games.

I make it 8 or 9 Welsh possibles. Owens, WJ, Tipuric, Warburton, Faletau, Webb, Williams, Davies and North. Won't be at all surprised when 6 or 7 of them start the first test.

Think it'll be

1. Vunipola
2. Hartley
3. Furlong
4. AWJ
5. Itoje
6. Warburton
7. Tipuric
8. Vunipola
9. Murray (Webb will play the third test after we lose the first two. ala Heaslip in Australia)
10. Sexton
11. Williams
12. Farrell
13. Davies
14. North
15. Hogg.

pickarooney

How many French players would make the lions if they were eligible?

Guirado would be a definite starter and Picamoles should shade Billy V. Lamerat has been decent in a problematic position.

Patrick McC

After the Six Nations suggest the following Lions:
15 Hogg, Payne, Brown
14 North, Watson, Earls
13 Joseph, Davies
12 Farrell, Dunbar, Henshaw
11 Nowell, Visser, Earls
10 Sexton, Russell
9 Murray, Webb, Youngs
1 McGrath, Marler, Healy
2 Hartley, Owens, Best
3 Furlong, Cole
4 Launchbury, Richie Gray, Henderson
5 Lawes, Wynn Jones
6 O'Mahony, Warburton
7 Tipurec, O'Brien, Van der Flier
8 Moriarity, Stander, Vuniopla

Littlehorny

This tournament has seen some really good and some really bad stuff from Ireland but we still finished 2nd after all and the team that won it you could argue are the best in the world right now. Where as Wales finished 5th, lost 3 games and we should have beaten them.
It will be very interesting to see how many Welsh lads Gatland can get on the plane because as has been said before alot of these lads will get picked on reputation rather than form.

whatawaster

Vunipola, McGrath, Healy
Hartley, Best, George
Furlong, Cole, Lee

Itoje, Launchbury, J Gray, AWJ

Stander, Vunipola, Heaslip, Warburton, Tipuric, O'Brien

Murray, Webb, Youngs

Sexton, Farrell, Ford

Henshaw, Davies, Ringrose

Daly, Williams, North, Nowell

Hogg, Brown

Squidgy Black

pickarooney wrote: »

How many French players would make the lions if they were eligible?

Guirado would be a definite starter and Picamoles should shade Billy V. Lamerat has been decent in a problematic position.

I'd love to see Serin in the squad if he was eligible.

Patrick McC

If Italian and French players could be selected, Picamoles and Parisse would be in. I'd also pick Fickou and Serin.

swiwi_

Littlehorny wrote: »

This tournament has seen some really good and some really bad stuff from Ireland but we still finished 2nd after all and the team that won it you could argue are the best in the world right now.

You could argue, but you'd be wrong.

Littlehorny wrote: »

It will be very interesting to see how many Welsh lads Gatland can get on the plane because as has been said before alot of these lads will get picked on reputation rather than form.

I've got a little bet on to see how many times people can moan about Gatland and his apparent love affair with all things Welsh. Some Irish really do have a chip on their shoulder about Gatland. I know he can be insufferable, but still.

Synode

So he's insufferable yet you'll still get cheap digs in when people give out. Right

Patrick McC

All coaches have a tendency to pick the players they know. With Gatland's record, it is hard to argue against his calls. As Wales have won more than Ireland although we supposedly have better players, he is due for some credit. Here is a composite Ireland Wales team:
Payne, North, Davies, Henshaw, Williams, Sexton, Webb, McGrath, Owens, Furlong, Ryan, Wyn Jones, O'Mahony, Warburton, Stander. Although there are eight Irish to seven Welsh this does not mean we will have more Lions. I could see Halfpenny and Moriarity as well as Murray and possibly Earls as well.

Badabing

How many players is Gatland picking? Standby players will be interesting as well because there is always at least 6-7 players who get injured over the course of the tour