Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.

Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

1…124125127129130…333

Comments

  • #3782
    FA Hayek
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭FA Hayek


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    As a complete aside.....I'm away for a bit

    Was at a hostel....and talking to two young wans...just pure shte talk etc and they were saying to us,they are going travelling Europe for a bit

    But not England (they just say England to include Scotland. ..but not Wales :confused: )
    Anywhoo....the reason they cited was brexit and fears for safety going there


    Just an antidote mind of two people....

    Those two young people are young and stupid, then again there is a reason why young and stupid is a phrase. ;)


  • #3783
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Oh yes there is, a vote in Parliament to dissolve the UK and re-establish Westminster as the English Parliament. England MPs would easily outvote Scottish, Welsh and NI MPs!

    I'd absolutely laugh my ****ing tits off if that ever happened.

    It would be a disaster, but hilarious all the same.


  • #3784
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    There is a democratic process laid out in the Good Friday agreement for sure. Yet, not one poll ever has shown majority support for it.

    When the taxpayers in the south will be told how much more they will have to pay, they too will shy away from it.
    .

    I see you're already trying the "economic basket case" security blanket on for size. Suits you sir.

    The pathway to United Ireland is laid out. Brexit has made the possibility of a United Ireland far more likely in the next decade or so.

    Unionists like yourself suddenly deciding that now is the time to start looking for compromise solutions instead of the old never-never-never approach are an indicator that we're approaching squeaky bum time for the union


  • #3785
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    Bambi wrote: »
    I see you're already trying the "economic basket case" security blanket on for size. Suits you sir.

    The pathway to United Ireland is laid out. Brexit has made the possibility of a United Ireland far more likely in the next decade or so.

    Unionists like yourself suddenly deciding that now is the time to start looking for compromise solutions instead of the old never-never-never approach are an indicator that we're approaching squeaky bum time for the union

    I do think credit where it's due to the government....they are doing it quite sensitivity

    Going about getting the north immediate access to the eu upon reunification is a move which clearly rattled the Brexiters and politically they can nothing about it
    Any sort of a reasonable trade deal between ireland and the UK will kill dead the age old argument that it's economically better to stay with the UK

    Time and education will kill the anti immigration side as realistically almost noone under 30 with 3 or more brain cells...buys that nonsense


    And claims of their culture would be comprised....need only look south to see how virtually no class occur and are respected by the state


  • #3786
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    A UI will cost 10's of billions.

    A UI tomorrow with all responsibility of its costs lumped on the Irish taxpayer would costs tens-of-billions. Heck, if I was asked to vote for that I'd vote 'no'. Check out the parade of horribles fallacy/rhetoric you're awfully fond of and then think about it before you respond.
    Perhaps, but it would be a good olive branch to the Unionists and if Loyalists can be convinced likewise. Offer an olive branch to the Unionists and live on peace on this Island.

    If the people in a UI accepted that then I would too. I just don't see it happening.
    Or stick a UI down their throat and risk a few decades of violence.

    We've covered this, thier violence would have no ends except to make their lot worse. Why are you giving 'special snowflake' status to unionists? Do you think they'd all go mad and turn into zombies if they were faced with a UI? You've a pretty low expectation of them.
    Remember this is all decades to come and the younger generation really do not give much of two ****s about Queen or President.

    You're wrong. Pro-UI sentiment is higher with young people than it is with middle aged people. I'll find the stats some other time but rest assured I'm correct about this.
    Because the PIRA took a legitimate grievance when it comes to things like equal rights, to jobs and housing and launched a campaign of violence on both islands.

    I agree.
    Tell me what does the NICRA have to do with planting bombs in London, Birmingham and Warrington? Very little.

    Nothing.
    People like yourself are quick to say that Loyalists will have no mandate when it comes to violent opposition against a UI.

    I wouldn't be against a devolved (from Dublin) parliament remaining in place in the north if that's what people wanted.
    Loyalists had zero impact on the Provos and their campaign of violence? Really? In fact they were so effective that many think it was one of the reasons why the Provos sued for peace in the 90's.

    They killed more of each other feuding than PIRA. The Glenanne murder-Gang ('loyalists', UDR and RUC) killed approximately 120 people of which only one was an active Republican. That's more than 99% civilians murdered by so-called loyalists. How is that taking the fight to the PIRA?
    Loyalists through some collusion with the British were killing loads of Republicans.

    That's absolute rubbish. Where are you getting this bad information from?


  • Advertisement
  • #3787
    FA Hayek
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭FA Hayek


    Bambi wrote: »
    I see you're already trying the "economic basket case" security blanket on for size. Suits you sir.

    The pathway to United Ireland is laid out. Brexit has made the possibility of a United Ireland far more likely in the next decade or so.

    Unionists like yourself suddenly deciding that now is the time to start looking for compromise solutions instead of the old never-never-never approach are an indicator that we're approaching squeaky bum time for the union

    I am an Unionist now? LOL, love it. When people are throwing 'insults' they have lost the argument.

    I am merely talking about other scenarios, just like others here. Merely talking about this is somehow an admission that there is an inevitability. The same people decrying the UK over Brexit and the economic repercussions quickly turn around and hide their head in the sand when it comes to a UI. If you want to see an about turn of debate, this is a brilliant thread for it. So many stupid ideas shot down and shown to be hypocrites.

    I live in the south anyway, so the only thing I will lose is my net wealth if it comes to pass, the same as most of middle Ireland when it comes to the realisation to this question if we are asked to vote on it. Now I know most of the Republican Sinn Fein base come from the working class, so they pay **** all tax anyway, so they won't really lose out, unless of course we cut their dole to match the north.

    It will be middle Ireland who will either pass or reject a UI motion and there will have to be a much better argument to a yes vote then just some silly nostalgic nonsense. After all, middle Ireland will have to pay for it. At the moment, you are not very convincing. Can I ask one question. How will a UI improve my children lives in the future? Just one tangible difference.


  • #3788
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    How will a UI improve my children lives in the future? Just one tangible difference.

    Aside from the economic benefit, a more secular society. We could be doing with a load of Protestants reigning in the RCC's dying grip on our schools and institutions. Partition has been bad for the north and the south, Catholics and Protestants, and non-believers.

    We probably wouldn't have had the Troubles in the north in a UI because the Paisley types would have had no legitimacy, we probably wouldn't have had the RCC's power over the state down here if we'd had a load of Protestants in the Dail and other institutions.


  • #3789
    FA Hayek
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭FA Hayek


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    A UI tomorrow with all responsibility of its costs lumped on the Irish taxpayer would costs tens-of-billions. Heck, if I was asked to vote for that I'd vote 'no'. Check out the parade of horribles fallacy/rhetoric you're awfully fond of and then think about it before you respond.

    And a UI in ten years time will not cost tens of Billions? When will a UI NOT cost 10's of billions, please do tell.


    If the people in a UI accepted that then I would too. I just don't see it happening.

    Perhaps, but its better then stuffing a UI down unionists throats with the dangers of a blowback. It should be talked about first and foremost to what they want and what would make a UI acceptable to them.
    We've covered this, thier violence would have no ends except to make their lot worse. Why are you giving 'special snowflake' status to unionists? Do you think they'd all go mad and turn into zombies if they were faced with a UI? You've a pretty low expectation of them.

    PIRA violence had no end and it was realised in the early 1980's yet took another 15 years or more for a peace to break out. You know the answer to this, yet are unwilling to accept it because its loyalists we are talking about.


    You're wrong. Pro-UI sentiment is higher with young people than it is with middle aged people. I'll find the stats some other time but rest assured I'm correct about this.

    Young as in young people who do not pay tax ;). Would be nice to see how young these people are.


    Nothing.

    So why did the PIRA bomb and kill innocent people in these places? For catholic civil rights?
    'Standing up for the rights of Catholics, by killing kids in the UK' Lovely logic there.

    That's absolute rubbish. Where are you getting this bad information from?

    Watch the episode 'Returning the Serve' from the Peter Taylor documentary called Loyalists.

    They killed 41 IRA members and targeted catholics killing hundreds for the purpose of spreading fear and a big up yours to the IRA. It was not pretty but it made the Republican leadership realise that they could not bomb the North willy nilly with no blowback that did not affect their own community. Made them come to the negotiation table that but faster.


  • #3790
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    And a UI in ten years time will not cost tens of Billions? When will a UI NOT cost 10's of billions, please do tell.

    When we synchronize the economy of the northeast with the rest of Ireland
    Perhaps, but its better then stuffing a UI down unionists throats with the dangers of a blowback. It should be talked about first and foremost to what they want and what would make a UI acceptable to them.

    Nah, we won't let the tail wag the dog. That's already produced the failed state in the northeast. The northeast would continue pretty much as it is with unionists having their flags and marches to keep them happy.
    PIRA violence had no end

    It kinda did, a UI with British withdrawal.
    and it was realised in the early 1980's yet took another 15 years or more for a peace to break out.

    Yeah that's probably a good summation.
    You know the answer to this, yet are unwilling to accept it because its loyalists we are talking about.

    No I agree, I think Republicans were seeking a way out of a conflict they couldn't win from fairly early on.
    Young as in young people who do not pay tax ;). Would be nice to see how young these people are.

    You're only exposing your own prejudices now. Watch this, not a Celtic jersey or can of cider in sight much as you'd wish it.
    So why did the PIRA bomb and kill innocent people in these places?

    When did you stop beating your wife?
    Watch the episode 'Returning the Serve' from the Peter Taylor documentary called Loyalists.

    I have. It's bullshit.
    They killed 41 IRA members and targeted catholics killing hundreds for the purpose of spreading fear and a big up yours to the IRA.

    'Targeted Catholics killing hundreds'. They killed about a thousand people during the troubles and only managed to kill a couple of dozen PIRA despite collusion. That's not taking the fight to the PIRA. They killed more of thier own feuding than they did PIRA. That was not an 'up yours' to the PIRA.
    the Republican leadership realise that they could not bomb the North...

    Yep, which is why they took thier bombs to Britain and forced Westminster to bring unionists to heel. It's a pity they didn't do it much sooner.


  • #3791
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    . How will a UI improve my children lives in the future? Just one tangible difference.

    Better education...more balanced country....a population increase of 1.5 million over night increases
    Also more world cups for Ireland to attend :D

    As for your irrational fear of the cost....a huge amount of the north's budget is eaten up by a security services And pensions....which If dissidents had any sort of political cop on....could crufiy SF on....making cuts but not cutting pensions

    Things are only as hard as you want em to be....you've decided your againest it and will raise each and every irrational road block to it.....much like a screaming toddler....you'll stop when you see its pointless and only tiresome for yourself


  • Advertisement
  • #3792
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Fratton Fred wrote:
    How can Scotland join the Euro? It would take some major negotiations for a country without its own currency and with unknown fiscal policies to meet the criteria.


    It would be post independence and after a transition period. All the countries of the former Soviet Union had to set up self-governance structures and fiscal systems. So did the countries of the former Yugoslavia and two of those are now in the EU, with others on the way.


  • #3793
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    marienbad wrote:
    On top of all that I can't see the EU facilitating any breakup of the UK - just to big a can of worms to open .


    It wouldn't be facilitating it. A Scottish independence vote would be an internal UK matter after which Scotland would transition to full self-governance and would apply for EU membership when ready. If Croatia can do it, why not Scotland?

    The Euro is now requirement for all new EU members.


  • #3794
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Junkyard Tom wrote:
    I think that's the absolute best thing they could do while transitioning to their own currency. The Euro has been a disaster for Greece - if it had had its own currency it could have made its exports, labour force, and inward tourism cheaper while making German and French cars more expensive.


    Only because the Greeks were unwilling and unable to apply the fiscal disciplines necessary. Greece's problems are of their own making. Euro membership gave them access to cheap capital which they blew on populist subsidies instead of building their economy.

    They have bugger all to export.


  • #3795
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,925 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If Brexit happens and even half of the predicted downside for the UK happens the failed statelet reaches crisis point.
    If Scotland leaves the UK, causing the final break-up, then NI may have no choice but to negotiate terms to merge with the republic and the GFA will be the only game in town to do that Any other decision will plunge the statelet, rudderless and prospectless into chaos. Chaos, almost everyone, vividly remembers.

    Brexit is a game changer. For Arlene it was a political toy, because she never believed it would really happen, or that the majority of the UK could be so stupidly swayed.
    Arlene's career is more or less over, she is being removed, effectively by whistleblowers within her own party.

    DUP types are panicking, they know she made possibly the biggest boo boo a Unionist has made since getting snookered into the GFA. The 'worst thing that ever happened' Unionists, as Jim Molyneaux knew.


  • #3796
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    First Up wrote: »
    Only because the Greeks were unwilling and unable to apply the fiscal disciplines necessary. Greece's problems are of their own making. Euro membership gave them access to cheap capital which they blew on populist subsidies instead of building their economy.

    They have bugger all to export.
    If you're a prime tourist destination, you don't need to export as the money arrives in the pockets of visitors.


  • #3797
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Exactly, I find the irony somewhat delicious.

    Independence will leave Scotland poorer. The same will be true of Brexit. Nationalism supercedes economics a lot of the time.


  • #3798
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,925 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Independence will leave Scotland poorer. The same will be true of Brexit. Nationalism supercedes economics a lot of the time.

    Scotland will be forced to consider the same question the island of Ireland will;
    are the prospects for the future better in the long term than staying in the current configuration.
    Happened all the time throughout civilisation, history clearly tells us, nothing is immutable, nothing is set in stone. And ultimately, it doesn't take major events to kickstart monumental change.


  • #3799
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,670 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    First Up wrote:
    Only because the Greeks were unwilling and unable to apply the fiscal disciplines necessary. Greece's problems are of their own making. Euro membership gave them access to cheap capital which they blew on populist subsidies instead of building their economy.


    Nonsense, I'd have to agree with yanis varoufakis, the euro wasn't designed to be able to deal with the 2008 crash and at this stage, it looks like it 'll collapse. I think he termed it perfect by saying, 'extend and pretend' is the only game in town regarding these issues. Ramming very different economies together was never gonna work, the future of the eu doesn't look good.


  • #3800
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Deleted User wrote:
    If you're a prime tourist destination, you don't need to export as the money arrives in the pockets of visitors.


    And you employ lots of restaurant workers and chambermaids.

    Not enough to create a wealthy country.


  • #3801
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Wanderer78 wrote:
    Nonsense, I'd have to agree with yanis varoufakis, the euro wasn't designed to be able to deal with the 2008 crash and at this stage, it looks like it 'll collapse. I think he termed it perfect by saying, 'extend and pretend' is the only game in town regarding these issues. Ramming very different economies together was never gonna work, the future of the eu doesn't look good.

    Yeah, Yanis is the guy to look to for advice.


  • Advertisement
  • #3802
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,670 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    First Up wrote:
    Yeah, Yanis is the guy to look to for advice.

    He actually is a very intelligent man with very good ideas, even many euro group members and members of the imf agreed with him that bail outs and imposing austerity on Greece would not work


  • #3803
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Wanderer78 wrote:
    He actually is a very intelligent man with very good ideas, even many euro group members and members of the imf agreed with him that bail outs and imposing austerity on Greece would not work

    Unfortunately for Greece, his treating the EU Finance Ministers as if they were his besotted students didn't go down too well.

    It wasn't all his fault - Greece should never have been allowed in the Euro. But his six months in office did huge damage.

    There are no magic bullets, no matter how often you vote for them.


  • #3804
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,670 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    First Up wrote: »
    Unfortunately for Greece, his treating the EU Finance Ministers as if they were his besotted students didn't go down too well.

    It wasn't all his fault - Greece should never have been allowed in the Euro. But his six months in office did huge damage.

    There are no magic bullets, no matter how often you vote for them.

    the eu finance ministers more or less agreed with him off camera, according to him of course, of which i do agree. eu finance ministers were more than willing to overlook democratic decisions even demanding that democratic votes were not allowed to overrule their decisions. theres something deeply rotten within the the whole eu system, and people like varoufakis have showed how undemocratic the whole system is, this could very well lead to the collapse of the whole eu and we ll all end up in deep trouble.

    greece gained access to the eu by utilising the same methods italy did to, should they have been allowed in? the italian banking crisis could very well be much worse than the greek banking crisis, and the ecb is already off by imposing bond holders to be burned! nice double standards there!

    there certainly is no magic bullets here to solve the issues of the eu, but all we re doing is digging our heads into the sand by bailing out failed banks and imposing austerity on bankrupt countries. this wont end well. id have to agree with people like varoufakis, that the only way to truly kick start our economies is to right off certain debts. 'extend and pretend', 'pray and delay', thats the only methods the eu has! austerity has been a complete disaster for the eu


  • #3805
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Scotland will be forced to consider the same question the island of Ireland will;
    are the prospects for the future better in the long term than staying in the current configuration.
    Happened all the time throughout civilisation, history clearly tells us, nothing is immutable, nothing is set in stone. And ultimately, it doesn't take major events to kickstart monumental change.

    Ireland was poor initially but did a lot better than the part of Ireland under British control. The same would be true of Scotland. They'd eventually surpass England IMHO.


  • #3806
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,536 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    youreadthat wrote: »
    Slicing itself off from 60 million people on the same small landmass who share culture, language and currency would be a disaster for Scotland.


    How is wanting to be independent slicing yourself off?


  • #3807
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Ireland was poor initially but did a lot better than the part of Ireland under British control.
    We got a massive amount of handouts from the EEC / EC / EU ( mostly Germany and the UK ). We are also viewed by the business world as one of the major offshore places in the world in which to pay little or no tax ( like Apple)...hence you get so much multinationals here. Those two factors, combined with the fact that for decades we had not a few thousand subversives trying to bring down the state, meant we done a lot better than the part of Ireland under British control, had tourism etc.


  • #3808
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Wanderer78 wrote:
    there certainly is no magic bullets here to solve the issues of the eu, but all we re doing is digging our heads into the sand by bailing out failed banks and imposing austerity on bankrupt countries. this wont end well. id have to agree with people like varoufakis, that the only way to truly kick start our economies is to right off certain debts. 'extend and pretend', 'pray and delay', thats the only methods the eu has! austerity has been a complete disaster for the eu

    Writing off debts is grand - unless of course you happen to be the lender. Once debts start getting written off, lenders stop lending and who could blame them?

    Responsible borrowing (and responsible lending) are at the core of all economic activity - private, public, national and international. Mess with that for short term, populist gain and you undermine the entire system.

    So if you are going that route, you better have a new system ready to kick in. Did Yanis - or the populist dunces who were cheering him on? Do you have one now?


  • #3809
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,670 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    First Up wrote: »
    Writing off debts is grand - unless of course you happen to be the lender. Once debts start getting written off, lenders stop lending and who could blame them?

    Responsible borrowing (and responsible lending) are at the core of all economic activity - private, public, national and international. Mess with that for short term, populist gain and you undermine the entire system.

    So if you are going that route, you better have a new system ready to kick in. Did Yanis - or the populist dunces who were cheering him on? Do you have one now?

    why not become our own lenders?

    i do agree with responsible lending and borrowing for that matter but since we have a debt based monetary system which is largely controlled by large privately owned financial institutions, you can start to see where the problems are gonna be, its in their interests to lend and lend and lend.

    i have a lot of respect for people like varoufakis, and being a lefty, that ll be, but you can see what theyre getting to. the eu is doomed if we dont start trying to solve these complex issues, and that wont be good for any of us.


  • #3810
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,925 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Ireland was poor initially but did a lot better than the part of Ireland under British control. The same would be true of Scotland. They'd eventually surpass England IMHO.

    It isn't even a case of 'doing better'.
    NI failed, even under British control. It is an outpost of little importance now in the greater issues facing the failing UK. They are (less the platitudes and photo ops) being ignored and will continue to be ignored.
    If it isn't plainly obvious to Scotland, Wales and NI who is actually the power broker in the so called 'United' Kingdom then, in fairness, hell rub it up them and sincerest good luck to the less well off because they are about to be dumped on.
    It certainly isn't Edinburgh, Cardiff or Belfast pulling any strings about the direction they want to go in.
    What they each intend to do about that remains to be seen. Hunkering down and hoping for crumbs won't cut it for nationalists in NI, anyway. And I dare say, it will not cut it for more and more Unionists.


  • Advertisement
  • #3811
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    maryishere wrote:
    We got a massive amount of handouts from the EEC / EC / EU ( mostly Germany and the UK ). We are also viewed by the business world as one of the major offshore places in the world in which to pay little or no tax ( like Apple)...hence you get so much multinationals here. Those two factors, combined with the fact that for decades we had not a few thousand subversives trying to bring down the state, meant we done a lot better than the part of Ireland under British control, had tourism etc.

    The average corporate tax rate in Europe is under 19%. Ours is 12.5%. Apple pay full tax on their Irish operations. The contentious stuff is profits from elsewhere being routed through here and that should be stopped. If it is, it will make no difference to Ireland's attraction of FDI.

    Tax is one factor in FDI decisions but others like market access and available skills and support services count for more. So does political and economic stability.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement