Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

First Up

Wanderer78 wrote:

why not become our own lenders?

Using what to lend with - a printing press?

Wanderer78

First Up wrote: »

The average corporate tax rate in Europe is under 19%. Ours is 12.5%. Apple pay full tax on their Irish operations. The contentious stuff is profits from elsewhere being routed through here and that should be stopped. If it is, it will make no difference to Ireland's attraction of FDI.

Tax is one factor in FDI decisions but others like market access and available skills and support services count for more. So does political and economic stability.

according to cormac lucey, since the double irish has been closed off, most multinationals are paying around 11% tax including apple.

First Up wrote: »

Using what to lend with - a printing press?

no printing presses are required, just do exactly what banks do, i.e. print money!

First Up

Wanderer78 wrote:

according to cormac lucey, since the double irish has been closed off, most multinationals are paying around 11% tax including apple.

With allowances for depreciation, R&D and re-investment that's about right.

Wanderer78 wrote:

no printing presses are required, just do exactly what banks do, i.e. print money!

Oh dear.

Wanderer78

First Up wrote: »

Oh dear.

whats up?

steddyeddy

maryishere wrote: »

We got a massive amount of handouts from the EEC / EC / EU ( mostly Germany and the UK ). We are also viewed by the business world as one of the major offshore places in the world in which to pay little or no tax ( like Apple)...hence you get so much multinationals here. Those two factors, combined with the fact that for decades we had not a few thousand subversives trying to bring down the state, meant we done a lot better than the part of Ireland under British control, had tourism etc.

The North gets massive EU handouts and British handouts. Looks like it will need a lot more British handouts.

First Up

Wanderer78 wrote:

whats up?

Even your hero Yanis would give you an F for that. Printing money does not create wealth.

Look up M3 in any Junior Cert textbook.

Wanderer78

First Up wrote: »

Even your hero Yanis would give you an F for that. Printing money does not create wealth.

Look up M3 in any Junior Cert textbook.

we can print our own money, it is allowed under eu rules, banks have been doing this for decades probably even centuries. it sounds like to me, a lot of ****e is taught in schools regarding banking and economics.

First Up

Wanderer78 wrote:

we can print our own money, it is allowed under eu rules, banks have been doing this for decades probably even centuries. it sounds like to me, a lot of ****e is taught in schools regarding banking and economics.

Good grief.

catbear

Wanderer78 wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

Even your hero Yanis would give you an F for that. Printing money does not create wealth.

Look up M3 in any Junior Cert textbook.

we can print our own money, it is allowed under eu rules, banks have been doing this for decades probably even centuries. it sounds like to me, a lot of ****e is taught in schools regarding banking and economics.

If that's the case then we could simply printed the banks out of insolvency and not required an IMF bailout for ourselves.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Venezuela and Zimbabwe?

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

Ireland was poor initially but did a lot better than the part of Ireland under British control. The same would be true of Scotland. They'd eventually surpass England IMHO.

This prosperity was almost all down to external cash injections and favourable status with the US amongst others, Is the US willing to bankroll Scotland in the same way?
and that's before we even start to consider the tax friendly policies that allow multinationals to park their head offices here.

steddyeddy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This prosperity was almost all down to external cash injections and favourable status with the US amongst others, Is the US willing to bankroll Scotland in the same way?
and that's before we even start to consider the tax friendly policies that allow multinationals to park their head offices here.

Scotland would be in a unique position to poach England's financial sector.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

Scotland would be in a unique position to poach England's financial sector.

or London will suck in the Scottish financial sector, after all, they did threaten to go south if the Scottish referendum result was a yes.

steddyeddy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

or London will suck in the Scottish financial sector, after all, they did threaten to go south if the Scottish referendum result was a yes.

That was because they would have left the EU!

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

That was because they would have left the EU!

With a Brexit, they'll also leave the EU as Spain would have vetoed any attempt for a newly independent Scotland to remain in the EU.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

With a Brexit, they'll also leave the EU as Spain would have vetoed any attempt for a newly independent Scotland to remain in the EU.

That has been debunked several times now so it could be called a lie.
Spain has no grounds to veto a Scottish application.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That has been debunked several times now so it could be called a lie.
Spain has no grounds to veto a Scottish application.

You keep saying that, but they'll look for a way to block it if push ever came to shove.
There is too much at stake as far as Spanish unity is concerned.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

Independence will leave Scotland poorer. The same will be true of Brexit. Nationalism supercedes economics a lot of the time.

Careful, you'll be accused of being a fear monger.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

You keep saying that, but they'll look for a way to block it if push ever came to shove.
There is too much at stake as far as Spanish unity is concerned.

Not according to their PM. The Catalan quest for independence is unconstitutional and will remain so, no matter what happens to Scotland, whose quest for independence isn't.
That is the bottom line, Spain would have no grounds to veto a Scottish application, again, according to their own PM.

To continue pushing this as a given, is a lie, at this stage.

Junkyard Tom

First Up wrote: »

Printing money does not create wealth.

How it's spent is where wealth and careers could be created. Quantitative easing is simply a euphemism for creating/printing money. The Bank of England created £375bn of new money in an attempt to stimulate the British economy and pumped it into the financial markets. It failed.

If they'd used a fraction of that money for public works it would have created wealth and careers while energizing the real economy by increasing aggregate demand across the economy.

Capt'n Midnight

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why rent the most sensitive naval base in a foreign country?

The UK and US between them have oodles of foreign bases as does Russia. That base in Scotland is well within the UK sphere of influence. Except Russia took direct action in the Ukraine and is doing so in Syria for a base in the Med.

Tyneside, Portsmouth and Barrow could easily build them. Do you really think English tax payers would want to see billions of their money spent abroad?

How much are they paying for the F35's or the ICBM's ?

Steel hulls are chump change, the expensive bits and the fitting out will still happen in England.

catbear

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

If they'd used a fraction of that money for public works it would have created wealth and careers while energizing the real economy by increasing aggregate demand across the economy.

The Japanese have been building roads to no where and airports where there's no demand for nearly two decades and it hasn't produced inflation.

There is a growth deception being maintained. 0% growth in a domestic economy can still provide a profit margin when decreased demand from an aging population is taken into account.

The growth at all cost narrative is actually just handing money to banks who still have a reducing domestic market to lend to but creatively the use of shell companies to fake demand is pretty much a state sanctioned money laundering operation, which is why we're seeing increasing inequality.

Fratton Fred

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The UK and US between them have oodles of foreign bases as does Russia. That base in Scotland is well within the UK sphere of influence. Except Russia took direct action in the Ukraine and is doing so in Syria for a base in the Med.

You do know the SNP want Trident gone out if Scotland, don't you?

Fratton Fred

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

How it's spent is where wealth and careers could be created. Quantitative easing is simply a euphemism for creating/printing money. The Bank of England created £375bn of new money in an attempt to stimulate the British economy and pumped it into the financial markets. It failed.

If they'd used a fraction of that money for public works it would have created wealth and careers while energizing the real economy by increasing aggregate demand across the economy.

The ECB have been doing their own QE, which is why the Euro is near enough on parity with the USD.

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You do know the SNP want Trident gone out if Scotland, don't you?

The Scottish people want Trident gone out of Scotland

Ferrari3600

steddyeddy wrote: »

Scotland would be in a unique position to poach England's financial sector.

I think that's probably true. They are in a much better position than Dublin.

Iwasfrozen

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You do know the SNP want Trident gone out if Scotland, don't you?

The Scottish people want Trident gone out of Scotland

The British people don't.

Junkyard Tom

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The ECB have been doing their own QE, which is why the Euro is near enough on parity with the USD.

Yep, and they've been fucking it up just as bad as the BoE by flinging it at the financial markets instead of spending it into the real economy.

Junkyard Tom

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Yep, and they've been fucking it up just as bad as the BoE by flinging it at the financial markets instead of spending it into the real economy.

All the main central banks are at it to continue generating the "growth" that is required under the current financial model that the western world has adopted.
Without it, deflation would have kicked in bigtime a decade ago.

catbear

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The ECB have been doing their own QE, which is why the Euro is near enough on parity with the USD.

Yep, and they've been fucking it up just as bad as the BoE by flinging it at the financial markets instead of spending it into the real economy.

But for solid voting block (pensioners and babyboomers) their retirement funds look great. Wait till the cash out turns to a stampede and all that printed wealth gets destroyed in share price routs.

Fratton Fred

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The Scottish people want Trident gone out of Scotland

All of them? Including the 4000 people that work at HMNB Clyde?