Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

When is the next referendum for that then? Westminster have basically told princess Scotland to take a hike regarding another referendum. The Scottish nationalists had the chance and blew it and lost convincingly. Maybe this will be revisited in 30-40 years time.

You can 'speculate' about what 'might happen' in France but the UK is set in concrete, nothing will change from the current status. Ho hum!

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

When is the next referendum for that then? Westminster have basically told princess Scotland to take a hike regarding another referendum. The Scottish nationalists had the chance and blew it and lost convincingly. Maybe this will be revisited in 30-40 years time.

You can 'speculate' about what 'might happen' in France but the UK is set in concrete, nothing will change from the current status. Ho hum!

Of course it isn't concrete but they just had a referendum, what else do you want? They got a referendum and lost it. Unless the Scottish people absolutely demand another one and it seems the majority back it, it isn't likely to happen for another generation or two.

Junkyard Tom

Grayson wrote: »

There's a load of nutjobs up there on both sides who are ready to kick off again at the drop of a hat.

There'd be nothing to kick off about for nationalists and the best unionists could hope to 'win' by kicking off would be UVF controlled cantons. They'd be welcome to them.

marienbad

A Little Pony wrote: »

She won't be? Don't be so sure, they said that about Brexit, they said it had no chance of happening. Said that about Trump, pundits literally laughed at the idea of him being President and look what happened. I predict she will win.

Don't be so sure yourself she will win . Any even if she did there is no chance that France will leave the EU.

A Little Pony

marienbad wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

She won't be? Don't be so sure, they said  that about Brexit, they said it had no chance of happening. Said that about Trump, pundits literally laughed at the idea of him being President and look what happened. I predict she will win.

Don't be so sure yourself she will win . Any even if she did there is no chance that France will leave the EU.

A President which HATES the EU is a big problem for the EU. They said the UK would not leave the EU and yet it is happening as we post.

marienbad

A Little Pony wrote: »

A President which HATES the EU is a big problem for the EU. They said the UK would not leave the EU and yet it is happening as we post.

Sure a president that hates the EU is a problem ,for the president !

The UK leaving the EU is really not that big a surprise , they were never really committed members anyway and a case can easily be made that in the last few decades they only stayed in to put the brakes on the rest .

Both the EU and the UK will probably be happier in the short/medium term . My fear is that the biggest losers by a long way will be Ireland . This really has the potential to have devastating consequences for this island.

A Little Pony

marienbad wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

A President which HATES the EU is a big problem for the EU. They said the UK would not leave the EU and yet it is happening as we post.

Sure a president that hates the EU is a problem ,for the president !

The UK leaving the EU is really not that big a surprise , they were never really committed members anyway  and a case can easily be made that in the last few decades they only stayed in to put the brakes on the rest .

Both the EU and the UK will probably be happier in the short/medium term . My fear is that the biggest losers by a long way will be Ireland . This really has the potential to have devastating consequences for this island.

Ireland will be fine, Brexit will not be a disaster in the long run as people say. Will it be a bit tough to begin with, of course, all divorces are but that is the price you pay for separation. You eventually get over it, regroup and rebuild.

marienbad

A Little Pony wrote: »

Ireland will be fine, Brexit will not be a disaster in the long run as people say. Will it be a bit tough to begin with, of course, all divorces are but that is the price you pay for separation. You eventually get over it, regroup and rebuild.

Glad you think so , I can sleep easier at night so .

A Little Pony

marienbad wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Ireland will be fine, Brexit will not be a disaster in the long run as people say. Will it be a bit tough to begin with, of course, all divorces are but that is the price you pay for separation. You eventually get over it, regroup and rebuild.

Glad you think so , I can sleep easier at night so .

What is the main issue you have with Brexit which affects the ROI? I don't see how it is in the interests of the British government to not get a good deal which is beneficial to the ROI and trade.

marienbad

A Little Pony wrote: »

What is the main issue you have with Brexit which affects the ROI? I don't see how it is in the interests of the British government to not get a good deal which is beneficial to the ROI and trade.

None of us can get a better deal than we have right now , so by definition whatever comes will be worse .

It is only a question of by how much .

A Little Pony

marienbad wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

What is the main issue you have with Brexit which affects the ROI? I don't see how it is in the interests of the British government to not get a good deal which is beneficial to the ROI and trade.

None of us can get a better deal than we have right now , so by definition whatever comes will be worse .

It is only a question of by how much .

Of course it can get better, the UK/Ireland relationship is very important, trade is very important between both nations.

marienbad

A Little Pony wrote: »

Of course it can get better, the UK/Ireland relationship is very important, trade is very important between both nations.

You just make statements with nothing to back it up . What makes you think it will get better ? The fact that we both thought it advantageous way back when to join the EU would indicate otherwise .

A Little Pony

marienbad wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Of course it can get better, the UK/Ireland relationship is very important, trade is very important between both nations.

You just make statements with nothing to back it up . What makes you think it will get better ? The fact that we both thought it advantageous way back when to join the EU would indicate otherwise .

Less red tape for starters. Why can't Ireland gain from a Britain trading and expanding more in the world? 

[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Meanwhile, the Government is to announce a new post-Brexit trade strategy for Ireland in the new year. It will put in place a framework for future Irish trade and draw on existing strategies in areas such as agri-food and innovation. It will aim to push Irish exporters towards new and existing markets in an effort to reduce dependence on Britain. -Irish Times. [/font]

The UK leaving the EU will not be a disaster for the ROI in regards to trade.

marienbad

A Little Pony wrote: »

Less red tape for starters. Why can't Ireland gain from a Britain trading and expanding more in the world?




The UK leaving the EU will not be a disaster for the ROI in regards to trade.

This red tape thing is just a Daily Mail red herring that has been debunked countless times . Otherwise it is just a coded message for lets water down health and safety etc - thanks but no thanks .

Yeah but a hard border might >

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Of course it isn't concrete but they just had a referendum, what else do you want? They got a referendum and lost it. Unless the Scottish people absolutely demand another one and it seems the majority back it, it isn't likely to happen for another generation or two.

This just underlines your myopic world view and the mindset that ticked the Leave box so simply.

The idea that Scotland will just stand still and watch what is happening is just head in the sand wishful thinking on your behalf just as the death of the EU being imminent is.
The pressure is on London. The EU has a pimple to cure the UK has an all over rash to cure - that is the reality.

First Up

A Little Pony wrote:

Less red tape for starters. Why can't Ireland gain from a Britain trading and expanding more in the world?

What "red tape" on Irish-UK trade will be removed by Brexit?

What "red tape" exists within the single market in which goods move freely?

What aspect of EU membership is currently stopping the UK from "expanding more in the world"?

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Of course it isn't concrete but they just had a referendum, what else do you want? They got a referendum and lost it. Unless the Scottish people absolutely demand another one and it seems the majority back it, it isn't likely to happen for another generation or two.

This just underlines your myopic world view and the mindset that ticked the Leave box so simply.

The idea that Scotland will just stand still and watch what is happening is just head in the sand wishful thinking on your behalf just as the death of the EU being imminent is.
The pressure is on London.  The EU has a pimple to cure the UK has an all over rash to cure - that is the reality.

How is it head in the sand mentality when Scotland has a huge defecit and could not afford to go on its own? Scotland is not going to get another referendum anytime soon. This notion that Westminster is just going to sign off on another referendum while in the middle of sorting Brexit out is the real wishful thinking.

The only way for the SNP is down, they can't get any bigger as a party election wise, the Labour Party  will not perform as bad in the next general election in Scotland. That isn't to say Labour will win in 2020, they won't but I think they will gain some ground in Scotland. I don't see the SNP destroying the field like in 2015.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

How is it head in the sand mentality when Scotland has a huge defecit and could not afford to go on its own? Scotland is not going to get another referendum anytime soon. This notion that Westminster is just going to sign off on another referendum while in the middle of sorting Brexit out is the real wishful thinking.

The only way for the SNP is down, they can't get any bigger as a party election wise, the Labour Party  will not perform as bad in the next general election in Scotland. That isn't to say Labour will win in 2020, they won't but I think they will gain some ground in Scotland. I don't see the SNP destroying the field like in 2015.

Are you seeing all this in the same ball you are seeing the death of the EU?

Scotland cannot stand by and watch Brexit happen, that imperative has the power to change things.
To dream that the status quo will remain in the UK while France or the EU will fundamentally change is the head in the sand thinking I was referring to.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

How is it head in the sand mentality when Scotland has a huge defecit and could not afford to go on its own? Scotland is not going to get another referendum anytime soon. This notion that Westminster is just going to sign off on another referendum while in the middle of sorting Brexit out is the real wishful thinking.

The only way for the SNP is down, they can't get any bigger as a party election wise, the Labour Party  will not perform as bad in the next general election in Scotland. That isn't to say Labour will win in 2020, they won't but I think they will gain some ground in Scotland. I don't see the SNP destroying the field like in 2015.

Are you seeing all this in the same ball you are seeing the death of the EU?

Scotland cannot stand by and watch Brexit happen, that imperative has the power to change things.
To dream that the status quo will remain in the UK while France or the EU will fundamentally change is the head in the sand thinking I was referring to.

Scotland can do nothing about it because it was a UK wide vote. Scotland will be pulled out of the EU, everyone knows that is what is going to happen. Who is she trying to kid?

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Scotland can do nothing about it because it was a UK wide vote. Scotland will be pulled out of the EU, everyone knows that is what is going to happen. Who is she trying to kid?

There's still a considerable amount of people in Scotland seeking independence. May will have to be more diplomatic than that when dealing with Sturgeon.

Ulysses Gaze

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you seeing all this in the same ball you are seeing the death of the EU?

Scotland cannot stand by and watch Brexit happen, that imperative has the power to change things.
To dream that the status quo will remain in the UK while France or the EU will fundamentally change is the head in the sand thinking I was referring to.

And Scotland cannot go it alone as it has not the economy to do so. Neither can NI.

They are both screwed either way.

Capt'n Midnight

A Little Pony wrote: »

What is the main issue you have with Brexit which affects the ROI? I don't see how it is in the interests of the British government to not get a good deal which is beneficial to the ROI and trade.

Poe's Law.


What do you mean by "good deal which is beneficial to the ROI and trade." ?
Other than lip service.


Anyone who has been paying any attention at all would know that Ireland can't do any trade or customs deals with the UK. It's the same deal EU wide or nothing at all

Thanks to the common travel area and many reciprocal arrangements on things like voting , legal and medical there's very little the UK could offer Ireland that we don't already get.

The "best deal" for Ireland is the UK staying in the EU and I reckon we should use our veto to make it quite clear to the UK that if it looks we are going to be shafted then we are taking them with us.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Scotland will be pulled out of the EU,

That is what will pull the UK apart. The more people realise that they are minions ruled by London, that it is really not about 'unity' at all the more easy it will be for Sturgeon to convince the necessary majority.
They came very close last time. Who will believe the last minute 'we love your really' appeals again?

I think if May insists on going ahead with brexit then another referendum in Scotland will be part of the price and control will spin out of London's hands after that, thus completing the breakup of the UK, which has been in progress for some time now.

Ferrari3600

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This just underlines your myopic world view and the mindset that ticked the Leave box so simply.

The idea that Scotland will just stand still and watch what is happening is just head in the sand wishful thinking on your behalf just as the death of the EU being imminent is.
The pressure is on London. The EU has a pimple to cure the UK has an all over rash to cure - that is the reality.

Yep, agreed. And as regards Scotland, Sturgeon is a very, very smart woman, a really clever operator.

A Dub in Glasgo

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

And Scotland cannot go it alone as it has not the economy to do so.

Of course it can and it does

First Up

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Of course it can and it does

Best chance for an independent Scotland in the EU would be the mass migration of the financial services sector from London to Edinburgh.

That's the only real positive that could emerge; the rest of the Scottish economy would suffer from a hard border along Hadrian's Wall. By how much is anyone's guess but the equation has changed since Brexit.

Of course a re-energised and re-motivated Scottish independence movement could have another referendum and vote out of the UK. If the SNP sweep the boards in the next election you can bet it will happen. Westminister may not sanction or recognise it but it would be a bloody hard political reality to ignore.

Roanmore

The whole red tape issue is like all the EU laws that the UK are going to overturn, when pressed all the people in favour of exit can quote are straight bananas (which was also a myth) . The question about all the red tape that exists has been asked many times but never answered on here.
Is it just another convenient phrase to throw around?

First Up

Roanmore wrote:

The question about all the red tape that exists has been asked many times but never answered on here. Is it just another convenient phrase to throw around?

By people who are either too dumb or too lazy to find out what they are talking about and just take their instructions from the Daily Mail.

Capt'n Midnight

We are getting some of our ducks in a row by arguing the precedent of East Germany means we could accommodate the North if there is reunification.


In theory Ireland and Scotland could unite. That would get them into the EU. Then we could split later via a referendum and Scotland would be an independent country in the EU.

Junkyard Tom

Roanmore wrote: »

Is it just another convenient phrase to throw around?

Yes. The UK intend to do a great copy-and-paste of EU laws/regulations into UK laws/regulations so that they won't face miles of trucks queueing for inspections of UK exports to the EU.