Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

Water John · 12-11-2016 5:09pm

Many thanks N97.
So, in reality, all public points should be Chademo/CCS.

The slower job, should really be for home charging.

Soarer · 12-11-2016 6:20pm

They're offering a trade-in allowance of €4000 too.

Between that and the new Leaf coming soon, it should be a good stick to beat Nissan with if in the market for an new EV.

Soarer · 12-11-2016 6:21pm

They're offering a trade-in allowance of €4000 too.

Between that and the new Leaf coming soon, it should be a good stick to beat Nissan with if in the market for an new EV.

n97 mini · 12-11-2016 7:00pm

Water John wrote: »

Many thanks N97.
So, in reality, all public points should be Chademo/CCS.

Along arterial routes, yes. At shopping centres or other places where people leave their cars for extended periods (e.g. train stations) AC is fine.

Water John wrote: »

The slower job, should really be for home charging.

I left out home charging. It's the same as public AC at 6.6kw or 3.3kw if you're equipped for it. If you're plugging into the socket in the hallway and sticking the cable out the letterbox you're looking at 2.2kw.

To figure out potential charging time of any car on any system, look at the size of the battery (in kw) and the size of the charger (in kw). Divide one into the other. E.g. an empty 22kw battery will charge from a 2.2kw supply in 10 hours. Add on a bit for losses, so more like 11. (This doesn't work for fast DC charging as the car hugely varies the charge drawn depending on the battery state)

12-11-2016 8:22pm

Water John wrote: »

Many thanks N97.
So, in reality, all public points should be Chademo/CCS.

The slower job, should really be for home charging.

The 6.6 Kw charger in the Leaf is highly practical and so would the 7Kw in the ioniqu, especially with the larger battery but you'll get the same amount of range per time on the charger or maybe a bit more if the Ioniq really is more efficient than the leaf.

Fast charging the leaf from about 18% to 80% can take 30-45 mins if the battery is cold , towards 45 mins so the 6.6 Kw charger can get from 30-95% in about 2.5 hrs, so when you don't need to charge as fast as possible and can leave the car a while then AC is very useful and can mean a lot of time saved waiting at fast chargers, come back to the car and drive off, you don't then have to look for a fast charger or wait for someone to finish.

12-11-2016 8:22pm

Does anyone know if the Ioniq battery has thermal management ?

unkel · 12-11-2016 8:46pm

n97 mini wrote: »

If you're plugging into the socket in the hallway and sticking the cable out the letterbox you're looking at 2.2kw.

Why is that? My kettle is 3kw and I thought you can power any device up to 3.3kw from any socket?

n97 mini · 12-11-2016 8:59pm

unkel wrote: »

Why is that? My kettle is 3kw and I thought you can power any device up to 3.3kw from any socket?

Dunno. It draws 10 amps by design, not 13. At a guess it's because it's powered up for hours on end.

cdev · 12-11-2016 9:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Does anyone know if the Ioniq battery has thermal management ?

Was reading an interesting post on mykiasoulev.com the other day... It compares the batteries from a few EVs. It indicates (at the very end of the page) that the Ioniq is only air cooled .

unkel · 12-11-2016 10:35pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Dunno. It draws 10 amps by design, not 13. At a guess it's because it's powered up for hours on end.

That's interesting. So it knows when it's plugged into a proper home charger then too, and it will draw 15 amps?

n97 mini · 12-11-2016 10:45pm

Or 30. Presumably the "chat" the charge point* and car have to set up the session involves a discussion of what the charge point can deliver and what the car can draw.

* or electronics in the granny cable

12-11-2016 10:58pm

The Bolt is a proper EV, thermal management is always good.

The packaging of the bolt is a lot better, the Ioniq shows it's practically an ICE conversion.

I'm amazed GM can sell it for 35 K USD Which would probably = 33K Euro's inc grant and VRT relief + VAT. This makes the Ioniq look very , very over priced and another reason I wouldn't buy it now. No point competing with the Leaf when the Bolt will be available soon.

However the big difference is that it's unlikely the Gen I Bolt will have a right hand version, shame because it's a very good car.

12-11-2016 11:05pm

The Granny cable ( portable EVSE ) will only deliver 10 amps, depending on the EVSE. Some of them allow you to set 8-16 amps.

Domestic wall sockets were not designed to pull 13 amps continuous.

unkel · 12-11-2016 11:05pm

When is the Bolt expected to be for sale in the EU, Mad Lad?

grogi · 12-11-2016 11:08pm

unkel wrote: »

When is the Bolt expected to be for sale in the EU, Mad Lad?

2017 in EU, but not in the RHD islands. According to autocar the construction prevents Bolt/Ampera-e from being converted to RHD...

n97 mini · 12-11-2016 11:19pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Domestic wall sockets were not designed to pull 13 amps continuous.

There's a small bit of irony there that every wall socket these days is a double, fed from the one cable in the wall, so in theory you could plug 2 x granny cables in for a continuous load of 20 amps, and it will work just fine. I checked this with a sparks first, who confirmed that domestic wiring and breaker in general are speced to handle the max the double socket can provide. (My job requires me to use 20 amps from a double for about an hour once a week, not EV related tho)

grogi · 12-11-2016 11:24pm

n97 mini wrote: »

There's a small bit of irony there that every wall socket these days is a double, fed from the one cable in the wall, so in theory you could plug 2 x granny cables in for a continuous load of 20 amps, and it will work just fine. I checked this with a sparks first, who confirmed that domestic wiring and breaker in general are speced to handle the max the double socket can provide. (My job requires me to use 20 amps from a double for about an hour once a week, not EV related tho)

Your fuse should trigger when you try doing that, that's why they are installed.

2.5mm2 wire is safe for around 20A only, anything above is danger of fire.

12-11-2016 11:27pm

It could be down to the availability of LG Chem to supply batteries and electrics.

GM Make the Chassis, body and some other bits bit but in reality this is mainly an LG Chem car and they have to supply batteries to other manufacturers and possibly the New Leaf so they might fear that they could struggle to meet demand and a way to reduce demand would be to eliminate the right hand drive market.

A real shame, I'd love a 200 HP EV. Sadly I doubt Leaf II will be much more powerful than the current Gen.

12-11-2016 11:27pm

It could be down to the availability of LG Chem to supply batteries and electrics.

GM Make the Chassis, body and some other bits bit but in reality this is mainly an LG Chem car and they have to supply batteries to other manufacturers and possibly the New Leaf so they might fear that they could struggle to meet demand and a way to reduce demand would be to eliminate the right hand drive market.

A real shame, I'd love a 200 HP EV. Sadly I doubt Leaf II will be much more powerful than the current Gen.

n97 mini · 12-11-2016 11:45pm

grogi wrote: »

Your fuse should trigger when you try doing that, that's why they are installed.

2.5mm2 wire is safe for around 20A only, anything above is danger of fire.

It's not as simple as that (there are maths involved!). The cable is rated for 26 amps and the 20 amp breaker that protects it won't trip at exactly 20 amps, there are other factors. Come over to my house and I'll show you, usually on Mondays

NIMAN · 13-11-2016 12:31am

Sat in a top.of the range Ioniq today, lovely finish inside and nice looking car in the flesh.

grogi · 13-11-2016 12:42am

NIMAN wrote: »

Sat in a top.of the range Ioniq today, lovely finish inside and nice looking car in the flesh.

I was under the impression the (model) range is rather short and the top one is the bottom one at the same time?

cros13 · 13-11-2016 12:35pm

Test drove one yesterday.

One trim will be offered in Ireland which is equivalent to the top trim in the UK.

I was quoted €34k before the grant. €29k with the SEAI grant (both including dealer/delivery charges).

Possibly some room for discounts.

Drove it in sport mode with max regen. Reasonably close to one pedal driving. Acceleration is smoother than the Leaf but seems to top out a little earlier despite the specs listing 10% more motor power.
Ride quality pretty similar. More cabin space, particularly leg room. Boot is bigger as well. Infotainment system much better than the '16 Leaf, easier to use and better laid out with android auto and apple carplay.

So bottom line:
Better equipped than a Leaf SVE for €1500 less money.
Hatchback sedan with more space for passengers and cargo.
Excellent build quality

The only pause I'd have picking the Ioniq over the Leaf would be the state of the eCars CCS network.

13-11-2016 1:04pm

cros13 wrote: »

The only pause I'd have picking the Ioniq over the Leaf would be the state of the eCars CCS network.

And the fact it's only 28 Kwh + Hyundai have stated they will offer more Kwh later in production, though at what cost is anyone's guess.

Did you get the efficiency stats for longer trips ?

Villain · 13-11-2016 6:26pm

Depreciation on it would be my main worry, if they bring out a larger Battery within your finance cycle it will drop like a stone.

BoatMad · 13-11-2016 7:58pm

Villain wrote: »

Depreciation on it would be my main worry, if they bring out a larger Battery within your finance cycle it will drop like a stone.

not really , the main issue with residuals is ensuring there are enough 2nd hand buyers, thats the issue today, simply too few 2nd hand EV buyers (and many are sourcing 2nd hand in the UK ).

IN a bigger EV market there will always be a selection of people for which a " particular " size battery is more then sufficient , people wil not endlessly chase larger batteries ( and hence more expensive models ) when they clearly dont need them ( in the same way as they dont all run after the 3 litre variant either )

isnottheword · 13-11-2016 8:18pm

BoatMad wrote: »

not really , the main issue with residuals is ensuring there are enough 2nd hand buyers, thats the issue today, simply too few 2nd hand EV buyers (and many are sourcing 2nd hand in the UK ).

Does that not prove his point? I appreciate that without new car sales, there can't be 2nd hand sales. However, due to the rapid state of change in the development of EV cars right now, it's only intuitive that there will be a faster depreciation rate than normal on a new car purchase.

I agree with your other point i.e. that there will be a residual market for what may become outdated EV's at a certain point - so long as the range facilitates the needs of the buyer i.e. if an old Leaf or Zoe meets the needs of a potential buyer, then they will see value in the proposition eg. for use as a 2nd car in the household for school runs, etc - at a pricepoint that's appropriate to them.

BoatMad · 13-11-2016 8:44pm

isnottheword wrote: »

Does that not prove his point? I appreciate that without new car sales, there can't be 2nd hand sales. However, due to the rapid state of change in the development of EV cars right now, it's only intuitive that there will be a faster depreciation rate than normal on a new car purchase.

I agree with your other point i.e. that there will be a residual market for what may become outdated EV's at a certain point - so long as the range facilitates the needs of the buyer i.e. if an old Leaf or Zoe meets the needs of a potential buyer, then they will see value in the proposition eg. for use as a 2nd car in the household for school runs, etc - at a pricepoint that's appropriate to them.

the issue is that at present there isn't enough 2nd hand EV buyers in the market place and where there is the current weakness of sterling and the fact that a large number if UK leafs came off PCPs , are depressing residuals.

to have good ( are any cars residuals good !) residuals , you need a bigger 2nd hand market, in time that will come.

what i was countering is that residuals are specifically affected by battery capacity or some form of " tech change "

isnottheword · 13-11-2016 9:08pm

BoatMad wrote: »

the issue is that at present there isn't enough 2nd hand EV buyers in the market place and where there is the current weakness of sterling and the fact that a large number if UK leafs came off PCPs , are depressing residuals.

I bought just on the cusp of brexit - so sterling weakness happened later - but I take the point that the popularity of PCP deals lead to the decent pricepoint on my purchase.

BoatMad wrote: »

to have good ( are any cars residuals good !) residuals , you need a bigger 2nd hand market, in time that will come.

what i was countering is that residuals are specifically affected by battery capacity or some form of " tech change "

Yup - I get that and agree with that (including the statement 'are any cars residuals good!). Notwithstanding that, the biggest € drop in residual value on EV's right now is coming within the first 48 months.

13-11-2016 11:14pm

BoatMad wrote: »

and the fact that a large number if UK leafs came off PCPs , are depressing residuals.

The problem in the U.K is that car residuals in general are a bit low due to the flood of PCP contracts and garages are or were considering to stop offering PCP. It's not just an issue that effects EV's, the same will happen here soon enough on all cars.

Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

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