Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

grogi · 11-11-2016 2:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No taxes are too high in general, certain taxes are too high, lower VAT will encourage spending = more money in the local economy.

I was referring to Dacia being bog basic and some people like that.

Lower income tax will encourage spending much more than a small cut in VAT - which probably would not be transferred back to the customers. VAT in general is a good tax because it is much harder to evade it.

I would also reform VRT - it could behave more like luxury tax - the more expensive the car, the more percent you pay (up to 5% increase for >100k cars).

Aren't we getting a bit off-topic?

11-11-2016 2:48pm

VAT, income tax and USC is too high. We're screwed in this country.

grogi · 11-11-2016 2:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

VAT, income tax and USC is too high. We're screwed in this country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedom_Day#European_Union

Only place in EU with lower taxes is Malta and Cyprus... Stop bitching about high taxes in here.

11-11-2016 3:05pm

grogi wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedom_Day#European_Union

Only place in EU with lower taxes is Malta and Cyprus... Stop bitching about high taxes in here.

So if other countries pay higher taxes I shouldn't complain ? get real. Fine if you think it's acceptable to pay so much of your income in tax and all the indirect taxes. Fair play to you !

n97 mini · 11-11-2016 3:08pm

grogi wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedom_Day#European_Union

Only place in EU with lower taxes is Malta and Cyprus... Stop bitching about high taxes in here.

That's an abuse of statistics. Hundreds of thousands in Ireland pay very little tax. The burden is on the better paid to cover it all. Compare the taxation at different salary levels for a better picture.

grogi · 11-11-2016 3:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

So if other countries pay higher taxes I shouldn't complain ? get real. Fine if you think it's acceptable to pay so much of your income in tax and all the indirect taxes. Fair play to you !

That's how society works - it gets funded with taxes...

And if we, on average, pay less taxes than any other nation in EU, there is not much room to cut them further...

grogi · 11-11-2016 3:29pm

n97 mini wrote: »

That's an abuse of statistics. Hundreds of thousands in Ireland pay very little tax. The burden is on the better paid to cover it all. Compare the taxation at different salary levels for a better picture.

That's only income tax. All those on the 0% income tax rate still pay the VAT...

11-11-2016 3:43pm

grogi wrote: »

That's how society works - it gets funded with taxes...

So too does the pockets of bankers and investors get funded with our money but be willing to shell out your hard earned all you wish.

Taxes are necessary, balanced and fair taxes, we have no such system.

KCross · 11-11-2016 3:48pm

HYUNDAI IONIQ !!!

n97 mini · 11-11-2016 10:34pm

KCross wrote: »

HYUNDAI IONIQ !!!

+1

The consensus seems to between 28kw battery and limited fast charging (CCS) options it's not going to be a game changer. Aside from looks it's not really all that different to the current Leaf.

EDIT: I didn't realise that there are around double the amount of Chademo charge points as there are CCS (and 4 our of 7 in NI are out of action as I type!). To make matters worse on combo chargers the use of the Chademo port disables the CCS port and vice versa. This means Ioniq owners are competing with the (numerous) Leaf owners for scarce fast charge points in this country.

So in conclusion: Ioniq fail.

Water John · 11-11-2016 11:27pm

I think that's being hard. This is the way it will go, a three way choice.

Remember, each is developing both their R & D and marketing strategy.

Simply in 2 years we will have a range of makes and models in EV. Most charging will be at home at night.
Hope most of them will have very good range. Then the market matures from niche to mainstream.

12-11-2016 9:58am

Most new chargers the ESB eventually install will be Triple headed units until they see where ChaDeMO goes, Fast AC is dead, there's going to be no EV with 44+ Kw AC other than Zoe and I bet Zoe II will be CCS. Hopefully they keep at least 22 Kw AC.

I am betting Hyundai will offer more battery Kwh in 2017 and I think that would be a kick in the teeth for anyone who buys one of the 28 Kwh's. Hyundai is on record saying they will offer more range at a later in production.

My thinking is to be much more independent from the public charging network.

12-11-2016 9:58am

Most new chargers the ESB eventually install will be Triple headed units until they see where ChaDeMO goes, Fast AC is dead, there's going to be no EV with 44+ Kw AC other than Zoe and I bet Zoe II will be CCS. Hopefully they keep at least 22 Kw AC.

I am betting Hyundai will offer more battery Kwh in 2017 and I think that would be a kick in the teeth for anyone who buys one of the 28 Kwh's. Hyundai is on record saying they will offer more range at a later in production.

My thinking is to be much more independent from the public charging network.

Villain · 12-11-2016 10:22am

The Carlow Fast charge is replaced with a chademo and AC unit, does the Ioniq have adapter or is this type of charger no use to Ioniq?

12-11-2016 10:26am

Villain wrote: »

The Carlow Fast charge is replaced with a chademo and AC unit, does the Ioniq have adapter or is this type of charger no use to Ioniq?

Carlow is now ChaDeMO only. I saw it the other day. No adaptor I'm aware of.

12-11-2016 10:29am

I Know there is a 3 phase AC to ChaDeMo device but it's expensive. But it would allow people to use the 22 KW AC chargers. And it's not too small either. I'll see if I can find it.

12-11-2016 10:43am

https://transportevolved.com/2014/05/28/portable-three-phase-22kw-rapid-dc-charger/

3 Phase AC to CCS and also ChaDeMo. 15 K euro's !!!

Wouldn't that be very useful indeed !

n97 mini · 12-11-2016 10:45am

Villain wrote: »

The Carlow Fast charge is replaced with a chademo and AC unit, does the Ioniq have adapter or is this type of charger no use to Ioniq?

Without CCS it's slow charge only, on AC.

The M9 has no CCS charge points *at all*. There is one at Naas, next one is the far side of Waterford. (It wouldn't win any prizes for Chademo either)

12-11-2016 10:47am

Carlow is now ChaDeMo only......

Villain · 12-11-2016 11:10am

Just had a look at full EV Hyundai Ioniq nice car and spec, will take it for a spin next week, nice to see it come with Granny cable

Villain · 12-11-2016 11:21am

Just had a look at full EV Hyundai Ioniq nice car and spec, will take it for a spin next week, nice to see it come with Granny cable

12-11-2016 11:40am

No reason the ESB can't install these (or similar) in the future instead of the AC points. Ideal for shopping centres too, 4-8 of these on site.

http://insideevs.com/bmw-launches-new-low-cost-dc-fast-chargers-6458/

n97 mini · 12-11-2016 12:42pm

^ As noted in the comments to that article, it's frustrating for BMW to choose CCS as it's "better" than Chademo and then roll out a pile of charge points that are only half the power of Chademo.

12-11-2016 12:52pm

Yeah it's funny,

The New ChaDeMO or ChaDeMo II I think they call it can handle 150 Kw, backward compatible and the plug is a lot neater. I see no advantage to CCS, never did.

12-11-2016 12:52pm

Yeah it's funny,

The New ChaDeMO or ChaDeMo II I think they call it can handle 150 Kw, backward compatible and the plug is a lot neater. I see no advantage to CCS, never did.

n97 mini · 12-11-2016 12:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah it's funny,

The New ChaDeMO or ChaDeMo II I think they call it can handle 150 Kw, backward compatible and the plug is a lot neater. I see no advantage to CCS, never did.

The only one advantage right now that I can make out is that Chademo equipped cars still need a 2nd socket for AC charging, rather than a combo socket. Not sure this is such a big deal though.

It's a bigger deal having to carry around an AC cable in the boot and set it up in the rain etc. Really wish all CPs had tethered cables. It's like having to carry around your own petrol hose instead of it being attached to the petrol pump.

12-11-2016 1:25pm

Na no big deal to me at all plugging in or out a cable.

The Public ac charge points I imagine are untethered to stop theft, less to go wrong etc.

12-11-2016 1:25pm

Na no big deal to me at all plugging in or out a cable.

The Public ac charge points I imagine are untethered to stop theft, less to go wrong etc.

Water John · 12-11-2016 1:57pm

Any chance of these things standardising? I'm confused.
Maybe I'm slow on the uptake. I feel this complexity in charge points will put a good few off.
Some of ye are quite au fait with the variations.Any chance of someone putting up a simple graph table, cars compatible chargers, output, time etc. Or provide a link to same. Please.

n97 mini · 12-11-2016 4:06pm

Water John wrote: »

Any chance of these things standardising? I'm confused.
Maybe I'm slow on the uptake. I feel this complexity in charge points will put a good few off.
Some of ye are quite au fait with the variations.Any chance of someone putting up a simple graph table, cars compatible chargers, output, time etc. Or provide a link to same. Please.

Fast (DC). Typically ~45-50kw. 80% charge in 30 mins or less. Two standards in use (Betamax and VHS):
1. Chademo: Leaf and some PHEVs like Outlander. Japanese, and only used by Japanese manufacturers, but not all.
2. CCS: i3, Ioniq, etc. A European invention. Used by most manufacturers other than Nissan and the handful of other Japanese manufacturers that use Chademo.
These tend to usually (but not always) be part of the one charge point in Ireland. Using CCS disables Chademo and vice versa, i.e. even though there are two plugs only one car can charge at a time.

Slower AC: 22kw max.
Only really one type when it boils down to it, and usable by all cars, though the rate depends. Zoe can pull 22kw. Everything else pulls 3.3kw (most Leafs) to 6.6/7kw (some Leafs, Ioniq). Time from empty to 80% varies:
3.3kw Leaf: hours and hours and hours...
6.6kw Leaf or 7kw Ioniq: Probably about 25-30% per hour.
Zoe: 1 hour.

Water John · 12-11-2016 4:09pm

Many thanks N97.
So, in reality, all public points should be Chademo/CCS.

The slower job, should really be for home charging.

Soarer · 12-11-2016 5:20pm

They're offering a trade-in allowance of €4000 too.

Between that and the new Leaf coming soon, it should be a good stick to beat Nissan with if in the market for an new EV.

Soarer · 12-11-2016 5:21pm

They're offering a trade-in allowance of €4000 too.

Between that and the new Leaf coming soon, it should be a good stick to beat Nissan with if in the market for an new EV.

n97 mini · 12-11-2016 6:00pm

Water John wrote: »

Many thanks N97.
So, in reality, all public points should be Chademo/CCS.

Along arterial routes, yes. At shopping centres or other places where people leave their cars for extended periods (e.g. train stations) AC is fine.

Water John wrote: »

The slower job, should really be for home charging.

I left out home charging. It's the same as public AC at 6.6kw or 3.3kw if you're equipped for it. If you're plugging into the socket in the hallway and sticking the cable out the letterbox you're looking at 2.2kw.

To figure out potential charging time of any car on any system, look at the size of the battery (in kw) and the size of the charger (in kw). Divide one into the other. E.g. an empty 22kw battery will charge from a 2.2kw supply in 10 hours. Add on a bit for losses, so more like 11. (This doesn't work for fast DC charging as the car hugely varies the charge drawn depending on the battery state)

12-11-2016 7:22pm

Water John wrote: »

Many thanks N97.
So, in reality, all public points should be Chademo/CCS.

The slower job, should really be for home charging.

The 6.6 Kw charger in the Leaf is highly practical and so would the 7Kw in the ioniqu, especially with the larger battery but you'll get the same amount of range per time on the charger or maybe a bit more if the Ioniq really is more efficient than the leaf.

Fast charging the leaf from about 18% to 80% can take 30-45 mins if the battery is cold , towards 45 mins so the 6.6 Kw charger can get from 30-95% in about 2.5 hrs, so when you don't need to charge as fast as possible and can leave the car a while then AC is very useful and can mean a lot of time saved waiting at fast chargers, come back to the car and drive off, you don't then have to look for a fast charger or wait for someone to finish.

12-11-2016 7:22pm

Does anyone know if the Ioniq battery has thermal management ?

unkel · 12-11-2016 7:46pm

n97 mini wrote: »

If you're plugging into the socket in the hallway and sticking the cable out the letterbox you're looking at 2.2kw.

Why is that? My kettle is 3kw and I thought you can power any device up to 3.3kw from any socket?

n97 mini · 12-11-2016 7:59pm

unkel wrote: »

Why is that? My kettle is 3kw and I thought you can power any device up to 3.3kw from any socket?

Dunno. It draws 10 amps by design, not 13. At a guess it's because it's powered up for hours on end.

cdev · 12-11-2016 8:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Does anyone know if the Ioniq battery has thermal management ?

Was reading an interesting post on mykiasoulev.com the other day... It compares the batteries from a few EVs. It indicates (at the very end of the page) that the Ioniq is only air cooled .

unkel · 12-11-2016 9:35pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Dunno. It draws 10 amps by design, not 13. At a guess it's because it's powered up for hours on end.

That's interesting. So it knows when it's plugged into a proper home charger then too, and it will draw 15 amps?

n97 mini · 12-11-2016 9:45pm

Or 30. Presumably the "chat" the charge point* and car have to set up the session involves a discussion of what the charge point can deliver and what the car can draw.

* or electronics in the granny cable

12-11-2016 9:58pm

The Bolt is a proper EV, thermal management is always good.

The packaging of the bolt is a lot better, the Ioniq shows it's practically an ICE conversion.

I'm amazed GM can sell it for 35 K USD Which would probably = 33K Euro's inc grant and VRT relief + VAT. This makes the Ioniq look very , very over priced and another reason I wouldn't buy it now. No point competing with the Leaf when the Bolt will be available soon.

However the big difference is that it's unlikely the Gen I Bolt will have a right hand version, shame because it's a very good car.

12-11-2016 10:05pm

The Granny cable ( portable EVSE ) will only deliver 10 amps, depending on the EVSE. Some of them allow you to set 8-16 amps.

Domestic wall sockets were not designed to pull 13 amps continuous.

unkel · 12-11-2016 10:05pm

When is the Bolt expected to be for sale in the EU, Mad Lad?

grogi · 12-11-2016 10:08pm

unkel wrote: »

When is the Bolt expected to be for sale in the EU, Mad Lad?

2017 in EU, but not in the RHD islands. According to autocar the construction prevents Bolt/Ampera-e from being converted to RHD...

n97 mini · 12-11-2016 10:19pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Domestic wall sockets were not designed to pull 13 amps continuous.

There's a small bit of irony there that every wall socket these days is a double, fed from the one cable in the wall, so in theory you could plug 2 x granny cables in for a continuous load of 20 amps, and it will work just fine. I checked this with a sparks first, who confirmed that domestic wiring and breaker in general are speced to handle the max the double socket can provide. (My job requires me to use 20 amps from a double for about an hour once a week, not EV related tho)

grogi · 12-11-2016 10:24pm

n97 mini wrote: »

There's a small bit of irony there that every wall socket these days is a double, fed from the one cable in the wall, so in theory you could plug 2 x granny cables in for a continuous load of 20 amps, and it will work just fine. I checked this with a sparks first, who confirmed that domestic wiring and breaker in general are speced to handle the max the double socket can provide. (My job requires me to use 20 amps from a double for about an hour once a week, not EV related tho)

Your fuse should trigger when you try doing that, that's why they are installed.

2.5mm2 wire is safe for around 20A only, anything above is danger of fire.

12-11-2016 10:27pm

It could be down to the availability of LG Chem to supply batteries and electrics.

GM Make the Chassis, body and some other bits bit but in reality this is mainly an LG Chem car and they have to supply batteries to other manufacturers and possibly the New Leaf so they might fear that they could struggle to meet demand and a way to reduce demand would be to eliminate the right hand drive market.

A real shame, I'd love a 200 HP EV. Sadly I doubt Leaf II will be much more powerful than the current Gen.

12-11-2016 10:27pm

It could be down to the availability of LG Chem to supply batteries and electrics.

GM Make the Chassis, body and some other bits bit but in reality this is mainly an LG Chem car and they have to supply batteries to other manufacturers and possibly the New Leaf so they might fear that they could struggle to meet demand and a way to reduce demand would be to eliminate the right hand drive market.

A real shame, I'd love a 200 HP EV. Sadly I doubt Leaf II will be much more powerful than the current Gen.

n97 mini · 12-11-2016 10:45pm

grogi wrote: »

Your fuse should trigger when you try doing that, that's why they are installed.

2.5mm2 wire is safe for around 20A only, anything above is danger of fire.

It's not as simple as that (there are maths involved!). The cable is rated for 26 amps and the 20 amp breaker that protects it won't trip at exactly 20 amps, there are other factors. Come over to my house and I'll show you, usually on Mondays

Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

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