Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

NIMAN

Sat in a top.of the range Ioniq today, lovely finish inside and nice looking car in the flesh.

grogi

NIMAN wrote: »

Sat in a top.of the range Ioniq today, lovely finish inside and nice looking car in the flesh.

I was under the impression the (model) range is rather short and the top one is the bottom one at the same time?

cros13

Test drove one yesterday.

One trim will be offered in Ireland which is equivalent to the top trim in the UK.

I was quoted €34k before the grant. €29k with the SEAI grant (both including dealer/delivery charges).

Possibly some room for discounts.

Drove it in sport mode with max regen. Reasonably close to one pedal driving. Acceleration is smoother than the Leaf but seems to top out a little earlier despite the specs listing 10% more motor power.
Ride quality pretty similar. More cabin space, particularly leg room. Boot is bigger as well. Infotainment system much better than the '16 Leaf, easier to use and better laid out with android auto and apple carplay.

So bottom line:
Better equipped than a Leaf SVE for €1500 less money.
Hatchback sedan with more space for passengers and cargo.
Excellent build quality

The only pause I'd have picking the Ioniq over the Leaf would be the state of the eCars CCS network.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

The only pause I'd have picking the Ioniq over the Leaf would be the state of the eCars CCS network.

And the fact it's only 28 Kwh + Hyundai have stated they will offer more Kwh later in production, though at what cost is anyone's guess.

Did you get the efficiency stats for longer trips ?

Villain

Depreciation on it would be my main worry, if they bring out a larger Battery within your finance cycle it will drop like a stone.

BoatMad

Villain wrote: »

Depreciation on it would be my main worry, if they bring out a larger Battery within your finance cycle it will drop like a stone.

not really , the main issue with residuals is ensuring there are enough 2nd hand buyers, thats the issue today, simply too few 2nd hand EV buyers (and many are sourcing 2nd hand in the UK ).

IN a bigger EV market there will always be a selection of people for which a " particular " size battery is more then sufficient , people wil not endlessly chase larger batteries ( and hence more expensive models ) when they clearly dont need them ( in the same way as they dont all run after the 3 litre variant either )

isnottheword

BoatMad wrote: »

not really , the main issue with residuals is ensuring there are enough 2nd hand buyers, thats the issue today, simply too few 2nd hand EV buyers (and many are sourcing 2nd hand in the UK ).

Does that not prove his point? I appreciate that without new car sales, there can't be 2nd hand sales. However, due to the rapid state of change in the development of EV cars right now, it's only intuitive that there will be a faster depreciation rate than normal on a new car purchase.

I agree with your other point i.e. that there will be a residual market for what may become outdated EV's at a certain point - so long as the range facilitates the needs of the buyer i.e. if an old Leaf or Zoe meets the needs of a potential buyer, then they will see value in the proposition eg. for use as a 2nd car in the household for school runs, etc - at a pricepoint that's appropriate to them.

BoatMad

isnottheword wrote: »

Does that not prove his point? I appreciate that without new car sales, there can't be 2nd hand sales. However, due to the rapid state of change in the development of EV cars right now, it's only intuitive that there will be a faster depreciation rate than normal on a new car purchase.

I agree with your other point i.e. that there will be a residual market for what may become outdated EV's at a certain point - so long as the range facilitates the needs of the buyer i.e. if an old Leaf or Zoe meets the needs of a potential buyer, then they will see value in the proposition eg. for use as a 2nd car in the household for school runs, etc - at a pricepoint that's appropriate to them.

the issue is that at present there isn't enough 2nd hand EV buyers in the market place and where there is the current weakness of sterling and the fact that a large number if UK leafs came off PCPs , are depressing residuals.

to have good ( are any cars residuals good !) residuals , you need a bigger 2nd hand market, in time that will come.

what i was countering is that residuals are specifically affected by battery capacity or some form of " tech change "

isnottheword

BoatMad wrote: »

the issue is that at present there isn't enough 2nd hand EV buyers in the market place and where there is the current weakness of sterling and the fact that a large number if UK leafs came off PCPs , are depressing residuals.

I bought just on the cusp of brexit - so sterling weakness happened later - but I take the point that the popularity of PCP deals lead to the decent pricepoint on my purchase.

BoatMad wrote: »

to have good ( are any cars residuals good !) residuals , you need a bigger 2nd hand market, in time that will come.

what i was countering is that residuals are specifically affected by battery capacity or some form of " tech change "

Yup - I get that and agree with that (including the statement 'are any cars residuals good!). Notwithstanding that, the biggest € drop in residual value on EV's right now is coming within the first 48 months.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

and the fact that a large number if UK leafs came off PCPs , are depressing residuals.

The problem in the U.K is that car residuals in general are a bit low due to the flood of PCP contracts and garages are or were considering to stop offering PCP. It's not just an issue that effects EV's, the same will happen here soon enough on all cars.

jerryg

cros13 wrote: »

Test drove one yesterday.

One trim will be offered in Ireland which is equivalent to the top trim in the UK.

I was quoted €34k before the grant. €29k with the SEAI grant (both including dealer/delivery charges).

Possibly some room for discounts.

Drove it in sport mode with max regen. Reasonably close to one pedal driving. Acceleration is smoother than the Leaf but seems to top out a little earlier despite the specs listing 10% more motor power.
Ride quality pretty similar. More cabin space, particularly leg room. Boot is bigger as well. Infotainment system much better than the '16 Leaf, easier to use and better laid out with android auto and apple carplay.

So bottom line:
Better equipped than a Leaf SVE for €1500 less money.
Hatchback sedan with more space for passengers and cargo.
Excellent build quality

The only pause I'd have picking the Ioniq over the Leaf would be the state of the eCars CCS network.

How would you rate it in compared to a BMW i3?
given that it has a bigger boot and more seating.
I would reckon that the new i3 has a greater range.

denismc

Took one for a test drive today, I found the paddle system to be very intuitive, there is hardly any need to use the brake unless coming to a full stop.
The dash is like it came off the Starship enterprise, great if you like gadgets and tech.
Interior and boot space is comparable to the I30, boot maybe a little smaller.
The dealer says they have sold 2 ev and one hybrid since last Thursday. It will certainly go on the shortlist if I change next year.
Good to see a little more variety in the EV market.
The sales guy also said there about 400 free home chargers still available from the ESB.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

And the fact it's only 28 Kwh + Hyundai have stated they will offer more Kwh later in production, though at what cost is anyone's guess.

Did you get the efficiency stats for longer trips ?

Nope, and I was the 2nd person to drive the car since it rolled off the delivery truck so it was showing over 220km of range when I drove it.

jerryg wrote: »

How would you rate it in compared to a BMW i3?
given that it has a bigger boot and more seating.
I would reckon that the new i3 has a greater range.

I took one of GoCar's 94Ah i3s out for 24 hours and put 400km on it last week to compare with my own 60Ah i3. Now, comparing REx with REx comes with some issues, mainly that due to complaints from (idiots in) the american market where the REx was not user-controllable and had a software limited fuel tank, BMW has severely decreased the depth of discharge on the 94Ah i3 REx to avoid them reducing motor power for aggressive driving at low SoC.

I'd strongly suspect from the instantaneous kWh/100km readings on the the the Ioniq (I drove the same route in my i3 just after) that the Ioniq beats the Leaf's efficiency (particularly at 100km/h+) but not the i3 (until 100km/h+). That's largely down to aerodynamics and weight differences. the i3. I'd ignore the EPA MPGe rating system (note not the EPA range estimates which are a very reasonable approximation) as it has some fairly glaring design problems.
The 28kWh Ioniq should have a touch more range in daily use than the 30kWh Leaf even with the smaller battery. It doesn't have a hope of hitting the range of the lighter 35kWh i3 BEV, which I'd reckon has 15/30km on the Ioniq in Motorway/City driving.

Definitely an i3 has way more motor power with less weight, rear wheel drive and much better steering so for smiles/km the i3 has the Ioniq beat. My perception was that the Ioniq was slower than my Leaf despite 10% more motor power output.

But the i3 and Ioniq are meant for different markets. It's a competitor to the Leaf not the i3. And I think as an EV... the Ioniq beats the Leaf.

I'll also point out that the i3 is more practical than people think. The passenger cabin is larger and more comfortable than the 3-series, and with the seats folded you have well over 1000L of storage (You can for example put a washing machine in the back in it's packaging...and close the boot..with space for more stuff...I've personally done it with my i3).

The I3 looks quiet Narrow though. And from looking through the window seems to have quiet a bit less space than a leaf, though sitting inside might tell a different story.

No doubt the I3 will have more driving fun. It's a shame the 200 HP bolt is not coming to Ireland.

I'd still be very cautious about buying a new Ioniq right now, If Leaf II is to be released in 2018 then it will be announced early 2017 or I doubt it will be seen until late 2018. I would expect Leaf II to be announced in Detroit in January, It's just too near to buy a new EV right now.

cros13

denismc wrote: »

Took one for a test drive today, I found the paddle system to be very intuitive

I thought the plastic used for those paddles seemed to be the far cheaper and flimsier than any of the other materials in the cabin.... if there was one place they should have spent a few euro extra it would be on those.

I also drove on a basically full battery, and found the same issue with regen being limited as the Leaf.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

The I3 looks quiet Narrow though. And from looking through the window seems to have quiet a bit less space than a leaf, though sitting inside might tell a different story.

Definitely more passenger space than the Leaf, little less legroom for rear passengers/but more headroom and substantially more space up front.
Storage space with rear passengers in the car is an entirely different story admittedly.

Deleted User wrote: »

No doubt the I3 will have more driving fun. It's a shame the 200 HP bolt is not coming to Ireland.

Yup, I would have loved to see the Bolt if only for the range. Though the i3 is a touch faster (better power to weight).

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd still be very cautious about buying a new Ioniq right now

if it meets someone's needs.... I think it's a good option.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

if it meets someone's needs.... I think it's a good option.

Sure, if the person won't be kicking themselves if they offer more Kwh in the Summer !

unkel

It's a never ending game, Mad Lad

A better version is always just around the corner. No point waiting (and not buying) until the end of time hoping the perfect car will almost be with us

Yes that's true but the changes around the corner are not going to be small.....

Soarer

They mightn't be small, but they should allow for a bigger discount on current models to move stock.

I know I'd prefer to have a few extra grand in my pocket for the sake of having to charge the car a few dozen time extra per year.

Water John

It is a maturing technology. We all purchased new laptops as the speed and scale of what they could do fulfilled the need for most of us.
Now most don't change laptops until it breaks down.
Same with ecars. They soon will reach a range and suitability to suit most of us. In effect, they will have matured. Maybe 1 to 2 years at most.
We have a 30Kw Leaf but won't change the 2nd car, a diesel, until this time at least.

It's not just about a maturing technology, there is not much choice out there at all.

Not everyone wants a small hatch and that's all the electric cars that are being made, and there's really only the Leaf and Zoe for people to choose from that's more affordable, I mean that's just ridiculous and that is not likely to change until 2020+ there is absolutely no affordable EV on the horizon that's going to be larger than the Leaf. In fact it's unlikely there will be any other EV apart from Leaf and Zoe by then, possibly the Model 3 and maybe the 3 Series EV but that's only possibly and the 3 Series won't be cheap and neither will a Model 3 in any half decent trim.

Nissan have the experience now so why don't they build an EV Xtrail ? Qashqai ? because they don't want to simple as, they thought the Leaf would sell in far greater numbers than it has but people don't want to be so restricted to one small hatch but this is exactly what the market wants, larger electric cars and definitely more range.

I bet Leaf II with 350 Kms range would sell a lot better but I doubt it will sell as well as the Diesel Quasqai in Ireland.

BoatMad

Soarer wrote: »

They mightn't be small, but they should allow for a bigger discount on current models to move stock.

I suspect the last thing Nissan Ireland need is to lower residuals any more then has already happened by encouraging further discounting

Water John

My understanding is that it's Nissan's aim to bring out an EV on all its range by 2020?

cros13

Water John wrote: »

My understanding is that it's Nissan's aim to bring out an EV on all its range by 2020?

Electric version of the new Micra next year (it's built on a platform shared with the Clio and Zoe), new leaf Q4.2017/Q1.2018, and a compact SUV in mid to late 2018. The Note ePower series hybrid should also be in europe early next year.

I don't think the Micra EV is to be released outside of Japan.

Water John

Water John wrote: »

My understanding is that it's Nissan's aim to bring out an EV on all its range by 2020?

Yes Nissan did say they hope to have an EV option for their entire fleet from 2020. Here's hoping.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think the Micra EV is to be released outside of Japan.

I think you mean the Note? The main factory for the new EU Micras is literally the same factory in Flins that builds the ZOE.

I have it from three different sources the epower Note will hit Europe next year.
Nissan public position is to deny everything and that there are no immediate plans to bring e-power to Europe but Ghosn himself said e-power would be competitive in Europe.
Unofficially, they've already had test-vehicles shipped over.

Are you talking about hybrids or EV ?

Fiery mutant

cros13 wrote: »

Test drove one yesterday.

One trim will be offered in Ireland which is equivalent to the top trim in the UK.

I was quoted €34k before the grant. €29k with the SEAI grant (both including dealer/delivery charges).

Possibly some room for discounts.

Drove it in sport mode with max regen. Reasonably close to one pedal driving. Acceleration is smoother than the Leaf but seems to top out a little earlier despite the specs listing 10% more motor power.
Ride quality pretty similar. More cabin space, particularly leg room. Boot is bigger as well. Infotainment system much better than the '16 Leaf, easier to use and better laid out with android auto and apple carplay.

So bottom line:
Better equipped than a Leaf SVE for €1500 less money.
Hatchback sedan with more space for passengers and cargo.
Excellent build quality

The only pause I'd have picking the Ioniq over the Leaf would be the state of the eCars CCS network.

Where did you test this? I tested one in Westmeath today, and was told the price was €39k before grant, €34k after grant.

colm_mcm

Saw one in the flesh today. Not sure what to make of it!

Water John

RRP is €28,495 Presume this does not include SEAI Grant. Though it looks like they may be including it, which is incorrect RRP.
Scrappage of €5K available.

+ if you have a trade in of any decent value they'll bump up the list price to rip you off !

I always advice negotiating via e-mail then everything is recorded.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

+ if you have a trade in of any decent value they'll bump up the list price to rip you off !

Huh, a simple cross check with another garage will stop that , never seen it happen in reality , too easy for the dealer to be cross checked

DrPhilG

Popped into my local Hyundai today for a nosey.

Very nice car, inside and out. Certainly easier on the eye than the Leaf. Price on the window was €34995.

I would have quizzed the salesmen a bit except none of them came near me. I spent about 5 minutes looking in and around it in the showroom but the 2 lads sat at their desks doing nothing stayed put instead of trying to sell it.

unkel

Unbelievable stuff. You'd think they would have lost that attitude by about 2008 / 2009 :rolleyes:

colm_mcm

unkel wrote: »

Unbelievable stuff. You'd think they would have lost that attitude by about 2008 / 2009 :rolleyes:

They have a better lineup and sell more cars now than back then though!

I do agree with you though, they should be chasing everything. Maybe they don't have any to sell for ages but this is probably their most important car yet.

Water John

So the RRP is €35K. We can all do the other sums for ourselves.

35 K ? absolutely no chance at that price.

Soarer

The RRP on the Hyundai site, excluding delivery and tripe of €1000, is €31995 for the hybrid and €28495 for the EV. That rounds up to €32995 and €29495.

They'll only give €4000 scrappage for the EV, so you're looking at financing €25495.

Water John

Where is the SEAI grant?

Soarer

I'd imagine that's nett of the grant.

I was told last week that the EV was around €33k before the grant, which ties in with the €28k RRP price on their site.

That said, if it's €28k before the grant, it's a seriously cheap car. You'd be looking at €20k if you've scrapage.

Water John

More than likely, €24K inc scrappage. Around the same as the Leaf.

unkel

Leaf is €20k cash (24kwh, incl. metallic and 6.6kw) on the road. Looks like it might be hard to get the Ioniq for a lot less than €24k cash incl. metallic on the road

Water John

Referring to the 30Kw Leaf.

isnottheword

unkel wrote: »

Leaf is €20k cash (24kwh, incl. metallic and 6.6kw) on the road. Looks like it might be hard to get the Ioniq for a lot less than €24k cash incl. metallic on the road

20 months later and the 24kWh Leaf can be €10,000 collected from the UK.

unkel

isnottheword wrote: »

20 months later and the 24kWh Leaf can be €10,000 collected from the UK.

It's 20 months now after the '15' UK plates came out (March 2015)

Can you show me a '15' plated Leaf for €10k or thereabouts?
(without battery lease obviously)

cros13

Water John wrote: »

So the RRP is €35K. We can all do the other sums for ourselves.

Well usually the advertised RRP would be the price inclusive of the grant. If I saw a dealer with the ex-grant price advertised I'd immediately report the issue to Hyundai Ireland.

So at €29k it's around €2k cheaper than the equivalent 30kWh 6.6kW Leaf SVE, but it's a sedan, that's better equipped and with slightly more range.

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Where did you test this? I tested one in Westmeath today, and was told the price was €39k before grant, €34k after grant.

Tullamore, the sales guys were actually fairly enthusiastic about the EV Ioniq.

grogi

cros13 wrote: »

So at €29k it's around €2k cheaper than the equivalent 30kWh 6.6kW Leaf SVE, but it's a sedan, that's better equipped and with slightly more range.

Ioniq is a hatchback! You might call it a liftback (which is a special case of HB) - similarly to the likes of Mondeo, Superb, Octavia or the Prius...