Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

Biloxi Blues · 06-10-2016 12:38PM

ArielAtom wrote: »

Have you the figures, is the money going to just registered adult footballers? The Spewin MacBull****ter term of financial doping is laughable, you should really drop it or is it you Spewin?

If it is just adult football then the figures are being manipulated to suit the hacks argument.If you can link me to the stats that show it is just adult football that is receiving the funding we can debate.

The last thing you or the rest of the Dubs here want to do is "debate" anything that shows you are receiving unfair financial assistance . It is based on numbers of registered players and games development grants per county - all taken from the GAA audited financial statements. No matter which way you splice it and dice it, attack the messenger, deflect, obfuscate and deny, it all amounts to financial doping. Where is the Dubs proof that it's all going to kids in ghettoes that they seem to be insisting upon?

Godge · 06-10-2016 12:45PM

Biloxi Blues wrote: »

It's taken from the audited financial statements of the GAA and the registered players per county. Give us a link to prove that all of the Dublin financial doping money is going to children.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/we-can-all-take-lessons-from-dublin-winning-blueprint-403728.html

It is all about the kids. Don't just take it from me, take it from Mike Quirke.

"In this context, Dublin GAA didn’t invest in bricks or mortar, instead hiring nearly 50 Games Promotion Officers at the time, (now Games Development Administrators) to work directly with individual clubs and their primary and secondary feeder schools. "

"They provide coach education to mentors, ensuring all have the requisite coaching qualifications to make sure the kids coming in their gate are receiving the best possible GAA experience."

"These GDA’s also target all the primary schools feeding those clubs. Here their work focuses more on the kids.

The goal, from their hand improve fundamental movement skills, working on children’s bi-lateral co-ordination and ball familiarity. Crucially, it’s about developing a sustainable relationship from a young age between the kids, their primary school, and their club by making sure their first sustained experience of GAA is a positive one."

What did Eugene McGee say about it?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/eugene-mcgee/eugene-mcgee-gaa-can-reap-rewards-of-catching-dubs-blue-wave-26794248.html

"It's a brave new world now in Dublin GAA, so they are right to go for it. The GAA as a whole will be better if the 'Blue Wave' really is unleashed."

Quite simply, the money is based on a strategic plan to increase juvenile participation rates, which is to the long-term benefit of the GAA. If it went to say Mayo, it would probably feed the short-term ambition of winning an All-Ireland and they would be the next Offaly.

Stoner · 06-10-2016 12:54PM

PARlance wrote:

From an outsider, Dean Rock would get a special mention for me. I still think he needs to improve his kicking range but he has come on leaps and bounds in general play imo. I thought he really stood up the last day. It may be a small thing but seeing him running back to Higgins after he scored from play and letting Higgins "know he was there" was something a bit of a landmark moment in how I viewed him anyway.

Tbh i loved that too PARLance I enjoyed the tactical changes, Andrews and Moran were cancelled out a good bit. The lads that didn't perform before did. I thought both managers did a good job in that aspect. Keegan did little in the first game but sticks a goal in the second, Rocks improvement, I liked the handpassed point as we'd passed them up before. Fenton had a quiet second game, and SOS showed again that imo he is a fine midfielder not the "workhorse" honest player Spillane has referred to him as .

For me it was the Rock change of approach, there was a little bit if a Mayo style to it, but it certainly set the tempo because for me defensively its Higgins not Boyle or Keegan that has the most class in the Mayo team.

Second
MDMA carrying the ball down the middle into a gap that was there for 1.5 games and showing his worth. His positive attitude, going back to his interview after the final in 2011 has always been a positive of the team for me, how he congratulates lads and welcomes subs on etc. It was great to see it unleashed. He gets a lot of stick about his style, but it's effective and positive, I've given out about him running into trouble before but we needed that approach on Saturday. Parsons tried it a bit too in all fairness to him, maybe Andy Moran as a sub is better late in the game getting on to those moves.

Third

The respect the two teams have for each other at the end of the game was unbelievable again

Overall Mayo did a savage defensive job on our forwards, I guess we did the same as it was so close.

The likes of MDMA changed the dynamic and we got four points out of it and I think that was really the winning of the game.

Over all I'm glad we won by scoring the four points from play as the rest of the games were very cagey, Mayo, Dublin, Kerry, Donegal Tyrone are all playing in a similar way now so seeing a young lad come on a stick a few point's over the bar to win the AI was a boost.

Dyr · 06-10-2016 01:02PM

PARlance wrote: »

From an outsider, Dean Rock would get a special mention for me. I still think he needs to improve his kicking range but he has come on leaps and bounds in general play imo. I thought he really stood up the last day. It may be a small thing but seeing him running back to Higgins after he scored from play and letting Higgins "know he was there" was something a bit of a landmark moment in how I viewed him anyway.

I think with rock he was just giving back what he got in the first game, but tbh that low level BS stuff does my head in, both teams were at it and as long as its tolerated it'll be there but the game doesn't need it.

ProudDUB · 06-10-2016 01:05PM

Agree 100% about Rock, Stoner. One of the stand out moments of the year for me, was the goal he scored down in KK. It came about 30 seconds after throw in and he created it himself with his pace and positioning. It was a real lay down a marker moment for him. I'd say all the talk over the winter about his lack of contribution from play, had to have stung. And I have to own up and admit that I was one of the doubting Tomas's on here too. It also shut up the Laois eegits - all 19 of them - who thought that taking us out of Croker would make a jot of difference to the outcome of the game.

That was a great day out in fairness. Any talk of the Leinster Council doing it again? When does the draw for next year take place? The 2017 minor and u21 draws were done yesterday.

Kudos to Fenton and Kilkenny for their Footballer of The Year nominations. I'd give it to Fenton every day of the week and twice on Sundays. I wonder will the Dublin vote get split and Keegan get it instead?

Jaden · 06-10-2016 01:08PM

Biloxi Blues wrote: »

It's all in the GAA's audited financial statements. Unless you have some reason to believe the audited statements are false and misleading, this is just an attempt at deflection.

Seeing as a link was not forthcoming, I did a quick google myself, and found what looks to be a source. It's the annual financials for 2015 (Web Version) PDF.

I assume this is the source of data used for the funding image doing the rounds on Twitter. If there are other data sources that someone knows of, I'd be happy to know of them. There must be another source, as this particular report makes no mention of player counts anywhere. Team counts by age profile, yes, numbers of players, no.

Oddly, Limerick had 954 teams in total across all age grade in 2015 in 2014 according to the report it was 2. This represents an increase of about 45,000%

Should this trend continue, we will have 455,000 Clubs in Limerick in this years report. Odd I know, but it's hard to argue with the facts presented in the official audited reports.

Biloxi Blues · 06-10-2016 01:08PM

Godge wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/we-can-all-take-lessons-from-dublin-winning-blueprint-403728.html

It is all about the kids. Don't just take it from me, take it from Mike Quirke.

"In this context, Dublin GAA didn’t invest in bricks or mortar, instead hiring nearly 50 Games Promotion Officers at the time, (now Games Development Administrators) to work directly with individual clubs and their primary and secondary feeder schools. "

"They provide coach education to mentors, ensuring all have the requisite coaching qualifications to make sure the kids coming in their gate are receiving the best possible GAA experience."

"These GDA’s also target all the primary schools feeding those clubs. Here their work focuses more on the kids.

The goal, from their hand improve fundamental movement skills, working on children’s bi-lateral co-ordination and ball familiarity. Crucially, it’s about developing a sustainable relationship from a young age between the kids, their primary school, and their club by making sure their first sustained experience of GAA is a positive one."

What did Eugene McGee say about it?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/eugene-mcgee/eugene-mcgee-gaa-can-reap-rewards-of-catching-dubs-blue-wave-26794248.html

"It's a brave new world now in Dublin GAA, so they are right to go for it. The GAA as a whole will be better if the 'Blue Wave' really is unleashed."

Quite simply, the money is based on a strategic plan to increase juvenile participation rates, which is to the long-term benefit of the GAA. If it went to say Mayo, it would probably feed the short-term ambition of winning an All-Ireland and they would be the next Offaly.

So the "proof" you have is Quirke, a GDA officer himself so has a vested interest in bigging this thing up. And McGee waffling in an article from 5 years ago about promoting the "Dublin brand" doesn't 'prove' anything either.

ArielAtom · 06-10-2016 01:11PM

Biloxi Blues wrote: »

The last thing you or the rest of the Dubs here want to do is "debate" anything that shows you are receiving unfair financial assistance . It is based on numbers of registered players and games development grants per county - all taken from the GAA audited financial statements. No matter which way you splice it and dice it, attack the messenger, deflect, obfuscate and deny, it all amounts to financial doping. Where is the Dubs proof that it's all going to kids in ghettoes that they seem to be insisting upon?

Show me the figures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dont spout off from articles written since we won Sam.

If you can show me figures I will take your rant seriously, without you are bordering on, well you know what!!!!

gormdubhgorm · 06-10-2016 01:15PM

Nonevernomore wrote: »

I didn't think it was the same Dublin posters who post over and over again. I'd be interested in a Dublin supporters point of view on the issue. All I've got so far is people ignoring it and deflecting. Why is that? And if that's all that's ever going to come from bringing that up here then of course I won't be posting about it.

This is the book you need to read:

GAAconomics: The Secret Life of Money in the GAA by Michael Moyinhan

https://www.amazon.com/GAAconomics-Secret-Life-Money-GAA/dp/071715453X

Come back when you have read this it will open your eyes and crush a lot of myths. If you can't buy it it should be available in your local library. There are plenty on the issues that Dublin clubs have, there more smaller clubs that need to be created as large swathes of Dublin are underfunded /GAA wastelands, but yet some areas have 'superclubs' that need to be broken up. It also has other bits on how important a successful Dublin team is for the whole of the GAA considering the amount of money they generate directly/indirectly.

Godge · 06-10-2016 01:22PM

Biloxi Blues wrote: »

So the "proof" you have is Quirke, a GDA officer himself so has a vested interest in bigging this thing up. And McGee waffling in an article from 5 years ago about promoting the "Dublin brand" doesn't 'prove' anything either.

So wait a minute, you produce a map, with no figures or rationale to back it up, and you criticise two newspaper articles that detail where the money is spent. You are the one who has made the allegation about financial doping and you have produced zero proof, just something something about some student and a thesis.

I will just leave it there.

Biloxi Blues · 06-10-2016 01:32PM

Godge wrote: »

So wait a minute, you produce a map, with no figures or rationale to back it up, and you criticise two newspaper articles that detail where the money is spent. You are the one who has made the allegation about financial doping and you have produced zero proof, just something something about some student and a thesis.

I will just leave it there.

But you have, repeatedly, been presented with rationale and repeatedly refuse to accept it.

ArielAtom · 06-10-2016 01:33PM

Lads it's time to stop feeding it!!!!!!!!!!!!

Biloxi Blues · 06-10-2016 01:36PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

This is the book you need to read:

GAAconomics: The Secret Life of Money in the GAA by Michael Moyinhan

https://www.amazon.com/GAAconomics-Secret-Life-Money-GAA/dp/071715453X

Come back when you have read this it will open your eyes and crush a lot of myths. If you can't buy it it should be available in your local library. There are plenty on the issues that Dublin clubs have, there more smaller clubs that need to be created as large swathes of Dublin are underfunded /GAA wastelands, but yet some areas have 'superclubs' that need to be broken up. It also has other bits on how important a successful Dublin team is for the whole of the GAA considering the amount of money they generate directly/indirectly.

So no large swathes of GAA wasteland anywhere else but Dublin? Merely naming a book doesn't support anything. If tracts of it ran contrary to what you want to believe in we would be asked, judging by the responses here, to produce every bit of corroboration behind the bits you don't like and then it would be ignored anyway.

kilns · 06-10-2016 01:43PM

Instead of people like Biloxi having the usual moan about money, maybe they should look deeper at how Dublin GAA is run and the structures they have in place.

GAA by its nature is political and county boards destroy counties with small minded politics, Dublin is one of the least politically run county boards, so they can get on with the real business of promoting the games and providing excellent coaching and getting kids out and active, but some begrudgers will always have issues with this

gormdubhgorm · 06-10-2016 01:50PM

Biloxi Blues wrote: »

So no large swathes of GAA wasteland anywhere else but Dublin? Merely naming a book doesn't support anything. If tracts of it ran contrary to what you want to believe in we would be asked, judging by the responses here, to produce every bit of corroboration behind the bits you don't like and then it would be ignored anyway.

Read the book. It is unbiased. It is a good read as well.

The amusing thing is the rest of the country outside Dublin seem to ignore how anti-GAA a lot of Dublin is. The only comparable bit on this Island is the 6 counties where many pretend it does not exist.

Should Dublin be punished for finally getting organised and implementing a plan?
You would swear all of this success happened overnight.
There is now a Fingal team in the hurling to try and improve hurling in that area things like that.

I find it curious that when Kerry had their periods of dominance along with Tyrone there was no such whining? Was this because Kerry had a competitor?

Can you tell me if there was uproar when Kerry were going for 5 in a row? (Pre-internet days would take old fashioned research - or an auld fella telling the truth!)

They could have won 9 in a row only for Seamus Darby!

They are now lauded as the greatest the kings of football talked about with hushed tones and misty eyes.

I remember the days when Dublin used to win f**K all they were figures of fun for the rest of the country. Now that they are winning people do not like it is as simple as that.

http://www.gaa.ie/football/news/dublin-dominance-should-lauded-not-lamented/

BonnieSituation · 06-10-2016 02:01PM

kilns wrote: »

Instead of people like Biloxi having the usual moan about money, maybe they should look deeper at how Dublin GAA is run and the structures they have in place.

GAA by its nature is political and county boards destroy counties with small minded politics, Dublin is one of the least politically run county boards, so they can get on with the real business of promoting the games and providing excellent coaching and getting kids out and active, but some begrudgers will always have issues with this

Absolutely on the money.

I've said it before if the rest of the "****e" counties would ask for help then perhaps they would get it rather than complaining about Kerry, Mayo, Dublin and Tyrone.

I'm sure they would glad to have competitors.

gormdubhgorm · 06-10-2016 02:28PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Can you tell me if there was uproar when Kerry were going for 5 in a row? (Pre-internet days would take old fashioned research - or an auld fella telling the truth!)

They could have won 9 in a row only for Seamus Darby!

I can't count it was ONLY EIGHT in a row Kerry could have won.

BonnieSituation · 06-10-2016 02:31PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I can't count it was ONLY EIGHT in a row Kerry could have won.

But surely worthy. It was tough for them back in the day getting out of Munster, seeded into the final what's that? Win 3 games get an All-Ireland? It was tough back in the day. Meanwhile in Leinster and Ulster...

JRant · 06-10-2016 07:55PM

This argument over Dublin's recent and still fleeting success in football is a mute point. Anyone seriously banging that drum needs to take a long hard look at what they're trying to achieve.

Compare it to Kilkenny's achievements and how that was viewed by the hurling community. Other counties and supporters realised that to compete with them they needed to raise their own standards, not bring Kilkenny down. I fully agree with this point and looking at the standard of hurlers being produced it has lifted the whole sport to another level.

Waterford, Tipp, Galway, Dublin realised that the only way to do it was starting at the grass roots and putting long term strategies in place to achieve this.

Our footballers success can be traced back to a root and branch rejig in the 90's by the county board. The hurlers are a bit behind in development terms but we're getting there. If you think our success is off the back of funding received in the last year or two then your argument has no basis in reality and frankly shows a staggering degree of ignorance in the amount of work done behind the scenes for decades.

Now instead of knocking what we've done why not look at how it was achieved and try to emulate those processes.

/rant over

donkey balls · 06-10-2016 09:01PM

DoctaDee wrote: »

Take it was a stand ticket ? Was on The Hill so didn't have a problem - the bottom left of your ticket should show it was issued as a PP ticket holder with your scheme number.

Sorry for only getting back to you now

flew out on my shortened holiday on Sunday both tickets (final and replay) have the PP nbr on them just thought it was odd that out of the gang of us that go. Me and the Da got stopped.

rebel girl 15 · 06-10-2016 11:40PM

Lot of accusations and theories going on, starting to get old. Either proof is provided, or the issue is left. Thread has been completely dragged away from games etc

gormdubhgorm · 07-10-2016 12:01AM

If someone from the Dublin county board provided a detailed finincial report on here with graphs, figures and piecharts. Or number of clubs and areas of Dublin that have no/weak gaa presence. There would be some on here who would still find something wrong with it. It is a shame that people allow themselves to be taken in by myth and not fact!

rebel girl 15 · 07-10-2016 12:02AM

Given that there was an on thread warning regarding this, couple of posters have been given a few days off

ProudDUB · 07-10-2016 12:30AM

When does the 2017 O'Byrne Cup draw come out? Now that Sam is safely tucked back up in his leaba in Parnell Park, it's time to start planning those road trips to exotic, far flung destinations like Enniscorthy and Carlow and Portarlington...

Stoner · 07-10-2016 12:43AM

4*4 time again this year. The Wexford game was mad this year. We were standing behind the line right beside the team, could hear everything. It was great. I think O'Callaghan got a run out that day I wasn't 100 percent who he was at the time, but Gavin called him back in and he jogged off the pitch. Gavin put his hand on his shoulder as he came back in and he said "did you enjoy that?" The lad was beaming and just said "yes" it was a nice moment the lads getting a competitive run out for the first time etc these competitions are important good places to go and blood players.

Speaking of highlights, one of the ones from last year was in Longford, a few of the locals were around us, they knew the Dublin squad as well as their own, it was all a bit meek at the start until they got the run on us and the place lit up. Super atmosphere.

ProudDUB · 07-10-2016 12:57AM

Ah, the atmosphere in Longford was great, especially when they went on a bit of a run towards the end of the game. The locals were going wild. Great craic altogether. You're lucky you've gotten to evesdrop on the good stuff. I love the ability to do that in the O'Byrne Cup, due to close proximity to the players and mgt on the pitch. I did a bit of it, during the monsoon at St Brigids. (Where now that I think of it, Cormac Costello was the star of the show, to such an immense degree, its amazing he saw so little game time, for the rest of the year.)

I was hoping to get some deadly piece of insider knowlege, that I could the wow all and sundry with here. Unfortunately, all I got was giving out about RTE's poxy telly schedule over Christmas, boring talk about mouldys and studs & something about Joe Canning, that I was never quite able to figure out the relevance of. :rolleyes:

Godge · 07-10-2016 10:40AM

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-being-humble-is-the-bedrock-of-dublin-s-greatness-1.2816282

I only spotted this article from Darragh O'Se this morning. If only others were as gracious in defeat and acknowledged when the better team won. From the first paragraph onwards he gets the tone completely right.

"The best team won the All-Ireland. You can’t always say that every year but when a team goes back-to-back, it’s fairly straight-forward. And when they do it by beating probably the two next best teams in the country, it’s a no-brainer. The Dubs were tested to the pin of their collar in the semi-final, final and final replay and they came through. You can’t ask for more than that."

His praise of James McCarthy is interesting considering so many on the All-Stars thread are questioning his ability:

"But my man of the match and player of the year was James McCarthy. What a player Dublin have there. He’s far and away my favourite footballer in the country. Big, bould, athletic and totally absorbed in the game. I don’t know how you’d play against him.

He’s brave – but then, I’d be brave too if I was built like him and I could move as quickly and easily as he does. He took off on a gallop at one stage in the closing stages, played a one-two and offloaded the ball up around the Mayo D. Mayo’s tackling was brilliant, in fairness to them, and they turned the ball over while he was committed forward and launched an attack.

But even though he was after covering 60 yards and shipping a few blows along the way, McCarthy just wheeled for home and he was back in position before the ball got into the Mayo forwards. Dublin turned the ball over and who had his hand up again looking for the ball? My man in the number five shirt. He just keeps on trucking."

He also has huge praise for Costello and McCauley as well. Right at the end he penned this gem:

"The rest of the country can cry about money and population and all that stuff if they like but the plain facts of it are that Dublin had three games in five weeks that were all there for the winning by either side going into injury-time and they didn’t lose any of them."

It made for great reading this morning.

CatInABox · 07-10-2016 11:15AM

Godge wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-being-humble-is-the-bedrock-of-dublin-s-greatness-1.2816282

I only spotted this article from Darragh O'Se this morning. If only others were as gracious in defeat and acknowledged when the better team won. From the first paragraph onwards he gets the tone completely right.

It made for great reading this morning.

Darragh has always come across to me as less of a "cute-hoor" kerryman than some other writers, always think his articles have something worthwhile in them, even if I don't always agree with them. I'm also concious of the fact that he's forgotten more about GAA in the last fortnight than I'll ever know...

Lee Keegan also had some nice things to say on twitter/instagram, seems like while some poeple are always going to dispute how good or bad Dublin are, the players at least, respect each other.

https://twitter.com/leeroykeegan/status/784044843752448000

HamsterFace · 07-10-2016 11:58AM

Darragh's columns are one of my favourite things about the summer and I miss them during the winter

flasher0030 · 07-10-2016 03:45PM

THey are more insightful than Tomas's

Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

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