Philip Cairns' Murder finally confirmed?

Two Tone · 12-06-2016 08:15PM

Lisha wrote: »

There is still abuse going on within families that is not being reported. Frankly anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

I certainly don't doubt that for a second for sure, but with regard to abuse being rampant in certain communities and people knowing about it but staying silent... that seems more like the Ireland of (not many) decades ago.

Lisha · 12-06-2016 08:16PM

wokingvoter wrote: »

No I can assure you that it is your delusion.
Name me a town where all the inhabitants stand by and allow paedophiles to abuse their children ?

It does happen, normally within the home though.

reeta · 12-06-2016 08:17PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, remember that the woman is a witness and not the.perpetrator. if she is named and shamed where does this leave witness protection?

She's as guilty as him if she held it this long, utter scum.

Such absolute rubbish !!

Lisha · 12-06-2016 08:21PM

Two Tone wrote: »

I certainly don't doubt that for a second for sure, but with regard to abuse being rampant in certain communities and people knowing about it but staying silent... that seems more like the Ireland of (not many) decades ago.

It may not be rampant but no one will report something if it's only a suspicion. And even if they did the gardai are powerless unless they can prove it beyond doubt. Social workers are shockingly overworked and criminally under resourced.
As the right of the family unit is enshrined in the constitution above the right of the child, the child rarely has a chance.

wokingvoter · 12-06-2016 08:28PM

Lisha wrote: »

There is still abuse going on within families that is not being reported. Frankly anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

I've also known people who have reported children as being in danger and the system is totally useless. The system is still failing children every day.

No. The poster stated that there are dozens of towns in Ireland where everybody knows that all of the children in the town are being abused by paedophiles and nobody is doing anything about it.
You are talking about something completely different .
Of course children are abused within families and nobody does anything about it or at least it is very difficult to do anything about it
There is a whole generation of parents out there who think that only priests are paedophile.
There is a much larger group who don't realise that for every paedophile who is named and shamed in the media there are 10 more operating under the radar who have never and will never be caught
There is a whole generation of parents who don't think that any of their extended family members could possibly be paedophiles
Other people's family members are paedophiles, not theirs.
They let their kids go in and out of other kids houses for sleepovers etc and never wonder who lives there, who will be tucking their kids in, kidding around etc
They bring the latest love in their life home and park him or her on the sofa in front of the telly after only knowing him or her for a few weeks and never think twice about it.
Why?
Because if he was a paedophile wouldn't his face be in the papers?

wokingvoter · 12-06-2016 08:31PM

reeta wrote: »

Such absolute rubbish !!

Offensive rubbish too

brooke 2 · 12-06-2016 08:31PM

scopper wrote: »

This is a long thread so I didn't get through all of it. However, I've always been fascinated by cold cases.

In Philip's case I believe it has always been known who the culprit was. I don't know if that is Cooke who people had in mind. I also wonder who the 1996 person who discussed some involvement was.

What is known is that Cooke was a proper psychopath. Arms offences back in the 50s, arson attacks on victims from his rape trial, etc. He was a scary person to deal with: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/He's+a+sick,+evil+man..+hopefully+he+will+die+inside+jail%3B+VICTIM'S...-a098688556

Read the 'colour' in this story. This just about captures him. By any standard he was dark. And so let us not judge those who may have feared him.

That article was written in 2003. His conviction for those crimes was subsequently
overturned in 2006 'on a technicality'. :rolleyes: One would wonder what the judge
was thinking!!

After his release from prison, he burned down the house of one of his
victims, who was a witness in his 2003 conviction. When he was brought
to court for that crime of arson, he, unbelievably, got a suspended
sentence!! Again, what was the judge thinking?? :mad:

Thankfully, he was brought back to court in 2007 by the same victims as in 2003.
They eventually got justice when he was jailed. He did appeal the sentence once
more, but, this time, he was turned down.

That guy got so many passes, that he had to have had protection from some influential
quarters. John Mooney's interview with Marian Finucane this morning was jaw dropping!

Kamili · 12-06-2016 08:36PM

I missed the interview, must look it up, would it be on a podcast somewhere?

Two Tone · 12-06-2016 08:37PM

Lisha wrote: »

It may not be rampant but no one will report something if it's only a suspicion. And even if they did the gardai are powerless unless they can prove it beyond doubt. Social workers are shockingly overworked and criminally under resourced.
As the right of the family unit is enshrined in the constitution above the right of the child, the child rarely has a chance.

Yeah even though things have improved, children's rights in this country still aren't sh-t. The children's rights referendum was a great step in the right direction, but who knows how long this will take to come into effect. There is no one source of blame, this goes back a long time, and must be a heck of a mess to sort out.

brooke 2 · 12-06-2016 08:47PM

Kamili wrote: »

I missed the interview, must look it up, would it be on a podcast somewhere?

Yes, on the RTE player. Don't know if it is up yet. Angela Copley was also speaking to Marian Finucane. It is in the first section of the programme.

Samaris · 12-06-2016 09:01PM

For some reason Boards is no longer allowing me to quote posts, but started listening to that podcast as well. I had to give up after about five minutes (approximately the third time that he was reported "having a bit of lunch" in one sentence). But my partner was sitting beside me, not particularly listening, playing a game, and he started doing the lip-smacking in time with Finucane. He's right, you really can predict it coming.

Kamili · 12-06-2016 09:09PM

Samaris wrote: »

For some reason Boards is no longer allowing me to quote posts, but started listening to that podcast as well. I had to give up after about five minutes (approximately the third time that he was reported "having a bit of lunch" in one sentence). But my partner was sitting beside me, not particularly listening, playing a game, and he started doing the lip-smacking in time with Finucane. He's right, you really can predict it coming.

sorry thats cos I deleted my post. the lip smacking is infuriating though. not sure I had the right link, nothing from Angela Copely in the podcast, or John Mooney.

JP Liz V1 · 12-06-2016 09:16PM

I hope the body is found so the family can finally get some closure

intheclouds · 12-06-2016 09:29PM

Two Tone wrote: »

I certainly don't doubt that for a second for sure, but with regard to abuse being rampant in certain communities and people knowing about it but staying silent... that seems more like the Ireland of (not many) decades ago.

There was one case I know about where a man was raping a daughter in a field behind the house and when the guards interviewed the neighbour he said "ah sure he was messing with all his daughters, I seen them in the field out back loads of time, everyone knew" (everyone did know as further interviews revealed).

This was before the laws changed whereby it made it a crime not to report suspected abuse.

The HSE gets something like 40,000 reports a year of child abuse and neglect. I don't know what percentage of that is sexual abuse but how many of the 40,000 cases can even be properly investigated? There just isn't the resourcing.

And that's only reported cases. Of a number of former abuse victims known to me personally through friendship or professionally only a fraction ever reported it. I've one friend who was being abused by both parents and he and his siblings only discovered it had happened to all of them after both parents were dead. So even within the family home the kids didn't know it was happening to each other. Again, never reported.

Kamili · 12-06-2016 09:36PM

brooke 2 wrote: »

Yes, on the RTE player. Don't know if it is up yet. Angela Copley was also speaking to Marian Finucane. It is in the first section of the programme.

not up yet, may not be uploaded unfortunately, as the other sections were.

Laois_Man · 12-06-2016 10:32PM

http://www.rte.ie/cspodcasts/media.mp3?c1=2&c2=16951747&ns_site=test&ns_type=clickin&rte_vs_ct=aud&rte_vs_sc=pod&rte_mt_sec=radio&rte_vs_sn=radio1&rte_mt_pub_dt=2016-06-11&rte_mt_prg_name=test-marianfinucane&title=The%20Philip%20Cairns%20Case&c7=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcast.rasset.ie%2Fpodcasts%2Faudio%2F2016%2F0611%2F20160611_rteradio1-marianfinucane-thephilipc_c21003088_21003094_232_.mp3&r=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcast.rasset.ie%2Fpodcasts%2Faudio%2F2016%2F0611%2F20160611_rteradio1-marianfinucane-thephilipc_c21003088_21003094_232_.mp3

Dice75 · 12-06-2016 10:33PM

aphex™ wrote: »

Mirror report today refers to paedophile ring in a local pub as hinted above.

scopper wrote: »

The Mirror article mentions a pub where peados met and it's an open secret. I mean how messed up was Ireland or was this common enough?

As a local I would love to know which pub they are talking about...

Sapphire3 · 12-06-2016 10:37PM

I am glad that there is an update in this case, although it has come 30 years too late.
It saddens me that the scumbag still wouldn't tell the Gardai, where that poor child is buried..
It was the least he could do, to give Mrs Cairns some closure.

Losty Dublin · 12-06-2016 11:02PM

brooke 2 wrote: »

That article was written in 2003. His conviction for those crimes was subsequently overturned in 2006 'on a technicality'. :rolleyes: One would wonder what the judge was thinking!!
!

There was a discrepancy with a key date of an incident which was relied on in court and which was crucial to the prosecution case in the original trial. It was considered enough to warrant an appeal and for the original conviction to be quashed. A retrial took place, at which he was convicted the second time round.

brooke 2 · 12-06-2016 11:23PM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

There was a discrepancy with a key date of an incident which was relied on in court and which was crucial to the prosecution case in the original trial. It was considered enough to warrant an appeal and for the original conviction to be quashed. A retrial took place, at which he was convicted the second time round.

Better late than never.

Kamili · 13-06-2016 06:15AM

Laois_Man wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/cspodcasts/media.mp3?c1=2&c2=16951747&ns_site=test&ns_type=clickin&rte_vs_ct=aud&rte_vs_sc=pod&rte_mt_sec=radio&rte_vs_sn=radio1&rte_mt_pub_dt=2016-06-11&rte_mt_prg_name=test-marianfinucane&title=The%20Philip%20Cairns%20Case&c7=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcast.rasset.ie%2Fpodcasts%2Faudio%2F2016%2F0611%2F20160611_rteradio1-marianfinucane-thephilipc_c21003088_21003094_232_.mp3&r=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcast.rasset.ie%2Fpodcasts%2Faudio%2F2016%2F0611%2F20160611_rteradio1-marianfinucane-thephilipc_c21003088_21003094_232_.mp3

No mention of John Mooney or Angela Copely in this one, its the Saturday one not Sunday one. Nothing ground breaking in it at all.

HeidiHeidi · 13-06-2016 08:12AM

http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=b9%5F10582334%5F70%5F12%2D06%2D2016%5F

Kamili · 13-06-2016 08:34AM

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=b9%5F10582334%5F70%5F12%2D06%2D2016%5F

Thanks for sharing, just listening now.

again with the lip smacking so annoying...

(sorry)

Edited to say:
from listening to this, Cooke owned random bits of land all around the city... I hope they search this land now!!

Crooksling appears to be a significant site...

Going Forward · 13-06-2016 10:08AM

Paul Williams just on with Sean O'Rourke.

The usual quid pro quo fawning over the gardai as required, who feed himself and Paul Reynolds tidbits of information.

No discussion as to how Cooke was never investigated in this case and a glossing over of the bizarre reports that Cooke was so involved with Gardai to the extent that had his own Garda Radio identification call sign.

This from the Herald, today, written by Gerry O' Carroll, retired Garda:

"This is an extraordinary twist in the case. Eamon Cooke was never a person of interest or a suspect in the original investigations or any subsequent reviews. The claim that Cooke was involved initially surprised me. I knew Cooke, having first come across him in Dublin in the late 1960s and early 1970s. I was a motorcycle garda at the time, attached to the Crime Task Force."

"He even used a blue light on the top of his car, to appear like an unmarked garda car, and deployed a CB radio to communicate with garda Command and Control section in Dublin Castle. Incredibly, he was even given the code sign 'Alpha Seven', an official garda code designation in the city's 'A' district."

How any police force could ignore Cooke to the extent of it never dawning on them to investigate any involvement in this case is quite bizarre.

http://www.herald.ie/news/courts/30-years-on-none-of-us-who-searched-for-philip-could-believe-this-twist-34794655.html

Sean O' Rourke also mentioned that Gareth O Callaghan the DJ, related to the Cairns faimily has said that Philip had an interest in raidio, didn't catch the rest of it.

Kamili · 13-06-2016 10:14AM

Going Forward wrote: »

This from the Herald, today, written by Gerry O' Carroll, retired Garda:

"This is an extraordinary twist in the case. Eamon Cooke was never a person of interest or a suspect in the original investigations or any subsequent reviews. The claim that Cooke was involved initially surprised me. I knew Cooke, having first come across him in Dublin in the late 1960s and early 1970s. I was a motorcycle garda at the time, attached to the Crime Task Force."

This despite the indo's 2002 strongly worded article by Jim Guerin stating that he had seen statements from people believing Philip to have been killed to hide the identity of a paedo ring.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/philip-cairns-was-killed-to-protect-his-sex-abuser-26245411.html

OldNotWIse · 13-06-2016 10:18AM

I read yesterday that she too was one of his victims and lived in fear of him. Apparently there was also an arson attack on someone else's house when they threatened to lift the lid on him.

Dolbert · 13-06-2016 10:19AM

The more I read about this case, the more I'm reminded about the disappearance of Mary Boyle and the apparent wall of protection around her killer. Her sister and others have gone to Gardaí naming the killer numerous times, but they refuse to investigate him.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/states-first-reaction-sweep-dirt-8163111

Kamili · 13-06-2016 10:20AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I read yesterday that she too was one of his victims and lived in fear of him. Apparently there was also an arson attack on someone else's house when they threatened to lift the lid on him.

they had already lifted the lid on him, had him convicted and it was overturned on a technicality. So he instigated an arson attack against her for speaking out.
He received a suspended sentence for this arson attack and then the case was put to court again in 2007 and he was jailed.

Samaris · 13-06-2016 10:57AM

Kamili wrote: »

they had already lifted the lid on him, had him convicted and it was overturned on a technicality. So he instigated an arson attack against her for speaking out.
He received a suspended sentence for this arson attack and then the case was put to court again in 2007 and he was jailed.

There seems to be a bit of discrepancy there(the newspapers are saying it too). Not that it hugely matters the order of events, but the arson attack from the DPP reports appears to have been back well before the case came to court, in response to one of the girls who would eventually be a witness against him threatening to go to the police. The suspended sentence was at that point and it was not made clear at the time what had caused him to do it. It wasn't until 2002 that the same girl, plus three others got him in court.

mr_baynes · 13-06-2016 11:03AM

Dice75 wrote: »

As a local I would love to know which pub they are talking about...

Was wondering the same myself. A pub in the area which is now closed always had a shady reputation but not necessarily for the reasons mentioned.

Philip Cairns' Murder finally confirmed?

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