Philip Cairns' Murder finally confirmed?

Two Tone

padd b1975 wrote: »

The harsh reality of Savile's abuse is that most victims only started speaking out when tabloid newspapers starting waving their cheque books around.

The harsh reality is that they came forward after he died and could no longer hurt them.

Ew, horrible cruel views here.

brooke 2

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

What's on the radio is just unreal!

Apparently this man used to meet children in shopping centres and tell them to stand in shops with no cctv and where they wouldn't be seen with him on cctv so he was very clever about going undetected. Guards regularly had to go to his home and forcefully remove children from there.

At the same time apparently Cooke had a garda radio in his car and a police siren blue light for his car. He would radio in to the police and report crimes and would put his blue light on the car and pursue vehicles he believed were involved in crimes. It was so frequent the guards gave him his own radio name, he was called Alpha 7 and they would hear coming over the radio from HQ "stolen car on x road, alpha 7 in pursuit ",they would take his reports seriously and he was one of the lads!

This is unbelievable!

Imagine going to the guards to say you were being abused by their best buddy! That would create a climate where it would be impossible.

Now, you are getting to the nub of it! Some Gardai were definitely doing their duty but others were very accommodating of this guy.

stoplooklisten

It should be easy enough to research who were the officers and sergeants involved and line them up for prosecution.

strandroad

Kamili wrote: »

Maybe she did come forward already, its been discovered that Gardaí were told it was Cooke as far back as 2007 and ignored it, dismissed it. Despite being told by two different people.

She was probably aware of 2007 allegations if they were in the media too. It's not like she was sitting on exclusive information, her voice was one of many.

Kamili

stoplooklisten wrote: »

It should be easy enough to research who were the officers and sergeants involved and line them up for prosecution.

Doubt it will happen. A lot maybe retired, or passed away.

I've always felt there was serious corruption involved in this case.. Time will tell I suppose. Just another cover up...

mhge wrote: »

She was probably aware of 2007 allegations if they were in the media too. It's not like she was sitting on exclusive information, her voice was one of many.

exactly, and those many voices ignored... Just find it so convenient it comes out after his death

brooke 2

wokingvoter wrote: »

And Irish abuse victims can have perfect faith and trust in the state agencies put in place by the state to protect them?

Some people's experience would definitely prove otherwise!

Means Of Escape

"It is unclear if the woman will face charges for withholding information if her claims are substantiated by the Gardai"-The Sunday Times

There are clearly some legal reprecussions regarding information being withheld during murder/kidnapping investigations regardless of the circumstances if the possibilty of charging the woman are even been considered .

Fleawuss

anewme wrote: »

Sorry but that's not what you said earlier. Stop back-pedalling constantly.

You said many times over and over in this thread that you are not accepting any excuses from this woman, everything is a "pile of steaming shyte" and "she should be fcked in jail for 30 years"

You also said abuse victims should be prosecuted if they keep silent as should rape victims and people who were abused by Jimmy Saville.

Yet you speak of ending the silence??? Your attitude will have the opposite effect.

It's an attitude with no empathy and totally lacking any sense of emotional intelligence.

It's an attitude which will make things worse for victims and keep the cycle of abuse going because people afraid to own up will never get the courage to speak out for fear of prosecution. But there's not the emotional intelligence to see that.

I'll certainly say again that my first reaction was born of infuriation. What I said after that was that remaining silent enables abuse to continue as does inaction by those in authority and I said clearly that if you rank all those responsible for abuse continuing its very clear about where the responsibility lies. I also pointed out that any discussion on abuse and pedophilia is based on an understanding that children are not legally competent. I accept it would have been clearer if I had spelled that out too. You say that holding people to account for remaining silent will make things worse for victims. (I'll leave aside the comments on emotional intelligence). From what I have read about this in the thread is that there may be a few steps before that: prosecution of those in authority who failed to act or failed to carry proper investigation into complaints. Maybe if there is a clear history of that established in the country then victims will feel empowered to speak out more easily.

Fleawuss

MonsterCookie wrote: »

The Gardai would no doubt be better placed to form a view of whether the woman has any case to answer.

Clue: They have clearly stated that she has shown courage - given the other contextual information available i.e. she as 9, a victim herself, I for one am happy to leave it to their judgement.

After all that has come out in this thread alone I think we should abandon blanket acts of faith in the Gardai. I'd be happy if the thing was looked at by several agencies and a decision reached if there was a case to answer.

brooke 2

mhge wrote: »

Your hallmark here is victim prosecution.
From what comes out now, her testimony was not a game changer at all. He seems to have been a protected species until recently on his deathbed.

Absolutely protected!

Allyall

I can't believe that this is even a discussion.
If the Woman was his partner and knew that he murdered Philip Cairns and said nothing, then maybe there is a case against her.
If she was a 9 year old girl whom Cooke was abusing, and she saw him murder Philip Cairns in front of her. That would be utterly devastating to the girl, and then to possibly to follow up with threats that the same would happen to her if she didn't cooperate, along with the possibility of also being arrested and thrown into prison for her part in it, if she should ever tell anyone.
The trauma and psychological torture is unfathomable to most of us, and is something that she would have lived with every single day of her life, I doubt she even would have very much concept of the time passing her by. Then when she eventually gets the courage to go to the Gardaí, she is vilified by people for not opening her mouth sooner, and saying she should be locked up?
FFS.

anewme

I agree about having a clear history and process starting with those in Authority.

What I disagree with is pushing the responsibility for the abuser onto the victims. The personal responsible here is Cooke and the Authorities (if it turns out there were previous avenues not investigated)

specifically referencing this thread for example, the first few pages are filled with hate, abuse and contempt for this person who has come forward. Even though the Gardai praised her courage, people only wanted to scapegoat her.

In fact, throughout the first few pages even the title of the thread stupid bi*** and the fvk her in jail, dispicible excuse for a human being comments, only hammer home why people stay silent.

Everyone was ready to lynch her, only a few reasoned posters said, let's wait for the full facts before vilifying someone. It now appears she did not keep stum for 30 years.

Where is everyone giving their apologies for judging her.?

This is what I've a real issue with and until this thinking changes, nothing else will.

Kamili

Keane2baMused wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/i-hoped-every-day-for-months-philip-cairns-26420652.html

Have a read.

Late 2007 a former partner of a "suspected paedophile" came forward stating this paedophile (Cooke!) was responsible, and another ex-partner confirmed same.

The gardai investigating however closed the book on it and said it was simply not true.

Maybe if you want to blame someone other than Cooke, blame the authorities for not doing their job with the information at hand.

This is utterly shocking, they denied it, yet now they have admitted its true

The latest story, which emerged late last year, is that the former partner of a suspected paedophile has come forward to claim that the paedophile abducted and then murdered Philip. Her story was allegedly corroborated by another woman, who was also a former partner of the man in question.

"I can absolutely confirm that that is not true," says Det Sgt Tom Doyle, who for the past 10 years has headed up the investigation into Philip's case. "That report was wildly inaccurate. We are still appealing for people to come forward, people who might be protecting someone, people who might have simply remembered something that they saw that day. There is, of course, the problem that it has been so long ago and people's memories become distorted -- which makes it more and more difficult."

Why are they admitting it now??? And how did they expect people, who knew the truth, to come forward after blatantly saying that the truth was actually not the truth.
So how can people be so harsh in a lady, who suffered terrible abuse to come forward, knowing that she wouldn't be believed by Gardaí and knowing she would suffer further at the hards of this putrid man????

anewme

Fleawuss wrote: »

After all that has come out in this thread alone I think we should abandon blanket acts of faith in the Gardai. I'd be happy if the thing was looked at by several agencies and a decision reached if there was a case to answer.

Maybe there is a lesson here for the general public as well. people should also learn a lesson not to judge and display hateful views and comments till all facts are out.

Read back the first few pages of this thread. Read it with today's information to hand rather than the breaking news on Friday evening. In the cold light of day, it's shocking and dangerous that so called reasonable people are prepared to jump to conclusions based on an initial newspaper headline.

No wonder people won't speak out if they receive that type of response. It allows the silence continue.

strandroad

Fleawuss wrote: »

After all that has come out in this thread alone I think we should abandon blanket acts of faith in the Gardai.

So your advice is to abandon blanket acts of faith in the Gardai, but to jail the victim who did just that.

Fleawuss

anewme wrote: »

Maybe there is a lesson here for the general public as well. people should also learn a lesson not to judge and display hateful views and comments till all facts are out.

Read back the first few pages of this thread. It's shocking.

All the facts of this case aren't out. They probably never will now.

stoplooklisten

Sunday 22 October 2006 19.41

Fresh appeal from family of Philip Cairns
...............

He said: 'The person may have been a child who found the bag elsewhere. That child is now an adult and perhaps has a family of their own.

'Or the bag may have been found by an adult at some location and brought to the laneway. It is so important that that person comes forward. We need to find out where they found the schoolbag.'
...........

'I am also appealing directly to the person or persons responsible for Philip's disappearance to get in contact with us at Rathfarnham Garda Station
......http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1022/81628-cairnsp/




It appears
a. they knew a long time that the person responsible was not the same person who left the bag
b. quite a specific appeal made, before adding a more general one

Means Of Escape

Fleawuss wrote: »

All the facts of this case aren't out. They probably never will now.

Fr Molloy murder case springs to mind .

Fleawuss

mhge wrote: »

So your advice is to abandon blanket acts of faith in the Gardai, but to jail the victim who did just that.

After reading this thread alone do you recommend blanket acts of faith in the Gardai?

brooke 2

Kamili wrote: »

I think because Cooke was "helping" the Gardaí as other posters noted. Philips own father in a 2002 piece noted that they knew it was a paedophile that killed him to protect himself.

I find this absolutely maddening! Can you just imagine the frustration and agony of Mr. Cairns, his wife and family at the inaction of the Gardai who were proclaiming to the public that they were doing all they could to find Philip, only for them to be discounting information about Cooke. Echoes of what happened to Maurice McCabe with even the Commissioner appearing to speak out of both sides of her mouth.

So much about this case is deeply disturbing. It turns out that a lot of what the public is hearing now is not new. What has brought it to the fore again is the action of a highly motivated counsellor in contacting the Gardai with information relevant to the placing of the schoolbag. Her main concern was to help the mother of Philip Cairns.

strandroad

Fleawuss wrote: »

After reading this thread alone do you recommend blanket acts of faith in the Gardai?

Does your recommendation apply to the victim also is the question.

HeidiHeidi

stoplooklisten wrote: »

It should be easy enough to research who were the officers and sergeants involved and line them up for prosecution investigation.

FYP there.

Or when the lynch mob are finished with the woman in question, should they then turn on the Gardai?

Honestly, the knee-jerk reactions of posters on here based only on the information that's drip-feeding out from the media (ie not within an asses roar of whole story, and quite likely to be agenda-driven) is appalling.

Fleawuss

mhge wrote: »

Does your recommendation apply to the victim also is the question.

It's not but I'll answer it again for you: speak out and your duty is done. Now do you think blanket acts of faith are justified in the Gardai after reading this thread alone? I don't. There seems to be an ongoing problem in this country with institutions doing the job they were appointed to do.

Kamili

brooke 2 wrote: »

I find this absolutely maddening! Can you just imagine the frustration and agony of Mr. Cairns, his wife and family at the inaction of the Gardai who were proclaiming to the public that they were doing all they could to find Philip, only for them to be discounting information about Cooke. Echoes of what happened to Maurice McCabe with even the Commissioner appearing to speak out of both sides of her mouth.

So much about this case is deeply disturbing. It turns out that a lot of what the public is hearing now is not new. What has brought it to the fore again is the action of a highly motivated counsellor in contacting the Gardai with information relevant to the placing of the schoolbag. Her main concern was to help the mother of Philip Cairns.

This is exactly what I was thinking, but was afraid to post it. Mr. Cairns did admit he knew it was a paedophile in 2002... The family must be so so upset.

strandroad

Fleawuss wrote: »

It's not but I'll answer it again for you: speak out and your duty is done.

No need to be patronising. Speak out and you'll be torched while no one cares, in this case.

brooke 2

Allyall wrote: »

I can't believe that this is even a discussion.
If the Woman was his partner and knew that he murdered Philip Cairns and said nothing, then maybe there is a case against her.
If she was a 9 year old girl whom Cooke was abusing, and she saw him murder Philip Cairns in front of her. That would be utterly devastating to the girl, and then to possibly to follow up with threats that the same would happen to her if she didn't cooperate, along with the possibility of also being arrested and thrown into prison for her part in it, if she should ever tell anyone.
The trauma and psychological torture is unfathomable to most of us, and is something that she would have lived with every single day of her life, I doubt she even would have very much concept of the time passing her by. Then when she eventually gets the courage to go to the Gardaí, she is vilified by people for not opening her mouth sooner, and saying she should be locked up?
FFS.

Someone has already pointed out that that young girl was thirty years old a few years ago when Cooke's ex-partners went to the Gardai with their information about the vile monster, only to have had it dismissed!!

Fleawuss

brooke 2 wrote: »

I find this absolutely maddening! Can you just imagine the frustration and agony of Mr. Cairns, his wife and family at the inaction of the Gardai who were proclaiming to the public that they were doing all they could to find Philip, only for them to be discounting information about Cooke. Echoes of what happened to Maurice McCabe with even the Commissioner appearing to speak out of both sides of her mouth.

So much about this case is deeply disturbing. It turns out that a lot of what the public is hearing now is not new. What has brought it to the fore again is the action of a highly motivated counsellor in contacting the Gardai with information relevant to the placing of the schoolbag. Her main concern was to help the mother of Philip Cairns.

So the current information isn't new. The current information was offered by a counsellor?

brooke 2

Means Of Escape wrote: »

Fr Molloy murder case springs to mind .

The State's inaction in this case is nothing short of scandalous.

Fleawuss

brooke 2 wrote: »

Someone has already pointed out that that young girl was thirty years old a few years ago when Cooke's ex-partners went to the Gardai with their information about the vile monster, only to have had it dismissed!!

So we have plural statements to Gardai which lead nowhere. When was this? What exactly was going on in this case? If the counsellor is the source of the latest statement and even that was already known to Gardai then GSOC needs to be in the middle of this.

Means Of Escape

One has to question the logic as to why the bag was sitting in a plastic bag in a safe for so long instead of DNA samples lifted off it 10 years ago .
The technology was advanced further after 9/11