Campaign for BBC3, 4, News 24 and BBC Radio in Ireland.

byte

I have also not received any replies from either the beeb or sky:mad:

Mossy Monk

nothing here either except for the reply from S4C

Charles Slane

Well finally a reply from Sky, but only to give another e-mail address (which I've already e-mailed)

Here it is -

"Thank you for your email.

As your enquiry is of a programming nature I have taken the liberty of
forwarding your email to our Viewer Relations department for a response.

For any future enquiries regarding programming, please contact them direct
at ViewerR@bskyb.com.

If we can offer assistance in any other matter please do not hesitate to
contact us at the email address above.

Thank you for your interest in Sky.

Yours sincerely


Beth Clark
Customer Care Department"

smoke.me.a.kipper

i just got the same one Charles.

byte

Well I got a promising response from BBC but none from Sky

From the Beeb:

Dear Will

Thank you for your e-mail. Please accept our apologies for the delay in replying. We know our correspondents appreciate a quick response and we are sorry you have had to wait on this occasion.

You may be interested to read that talks are ongoing about making our digital channels available to those in Eire through digital satellite. At present no further details are available. However, please be assured that I have personally registered your interest in such a move.

With regards to receiving BBC Radio via your digital satellite, all BBC Radio services, with exception of Radio 5 Live, are freely available and there should be no reason as to why you cannot receive them. The EPG guide can be found at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/analogue_radio/satellite.shtml

If you cannot listen to these stations, can I suggest you contact your digital supplier directly.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to write.

Regards

Damian Whyte
BBC Information

So, there ya have it. Talks are ongoing which can be no bad thing. Better than no talks at all! Thank you Damian.:)

Charles Slane

Wow !

That's the first positive news I've heard regarding the carriage of the digital Beebs.

Mr White also states that he has "personally registered your interest", which gives weight to the idea that an e-mail campaign can help.

Don't you think that the way he phrases his reply about the radio stations kind of suggests that he thinks that they're on the Irish EPG already ?

Mr White also states that he has "personally registered your interest", which gives weight to the idea that an e-mail campaign can help.

Charles-I suspect,it's just a phrase, he used.

Don't you think that the way he phrases his reply about the radio stations kind of suggests that he thinks that they're on the Irish EPG already ?

Yes and it also suggests he's not very o-fay with this topic, which would be another reason for not getting too excited about his reply to Will:(
mm

Charles Slane

Well here's an interesting one. I got this from Sky a few minutes ago.

"Dear Charles

Thank you for your e-mail. Please accept my apologies for the delay in
responding.

Please allow me to advise that the BBC Radio channels are available on the
Sky digital programme guide in Ireland.

Should you be experiencing any problems receiving these channel please do
not hesitate to contact the Sky digital technical helpline on 08702 435000.

Unfortunately, I have on information on the BBC 3 and 4 channels launching
on the Sky digital platform.

I regret that I am unable to assist you further, but may I thank you once
again for taking the time to write to us at Sky.

Thomas McCairn
Viewer Relations"


So Viewer Relations in Sky also seem to believe that the radio stations are on the EPG. How bizarre !!

Must reply to put him straight (unless they all appeared this morning ... mmmm ... somehow I don't think so).

And it's the standard Sky reply re BBC 3 and 4 - No info !!

Charles Slane

Here's the reply I sent -

Thomas,

Thank you very much for your reply, however I have to disagree with you regarding the availability of the BBC Radio Channels on the EPG in Ireland - the only ones that appear are BBC World Service and BBC Cymru, the rest need to be manually tuned and stored in "Other Channels" (which doesn't really make much sense).

I'd be interested to know who made the decision to leave the main BBC radio stations off the Irish EPG.

BBC Radio has always been very popular in Ireland (on MW and LW) and is available on NTL in it's franchise areas throughout the republic (including Radio 5 Live) .

Surely it's a bigger selling point to say that BBC Radio is available on Sky Digital than the likes of Core, Storm Live etc. (who nobody has heard of before), and the new BBC digital radio stations ( Networks X and Y) would certainly be an attraction for new subscribers.

Will this issue be addressed ?

Thanks for your time, and have a merry Christmas and a happy New Year,

Charles Slane

Good one Charles,thats the stuff to give them.
It's shocking, but a fact of life,I'm afraid that a lot of people in Britain, probably think Northern Ireland when you mention Ireland.
They just don't understand-which is not good enough from personell who work for a company providing a service to the Republic of Ireland!
I was asked recently by a shopkeeper in England"Is Ireland in the EU?"- this coming from a person whose Country is not joining the Euro.

They are obviously not all scatterbrained in Sky as if they were we would have the English EPG when we turn on our Irish digiboxes.
I'm afraid I'm convinced thatthe replies are coming from low down in the organisation (as usual ) from those who know very little.
The only hope being that bombarding them with e-mails and calls might cause their supervisors to note our wants.

Unfortunately Sky want to keep the Subscription rise all for themselves, in true monopoly style and the only medicine that will give us our channels is Competition imho.
mm

byte

Well, I for one, think the reply from BBC was a good one and promising as "talks are ongoing" which is better than "only licensed to broadcast in UK" replies. I must reply to Mr Whyte to say that Radio channels aren't listed on EPG

Oh I agree,
There is no doubt in my mind, that all these channels will come on eventually-it's only a matter of when.
My point is just that as Sky subscribers we are being let down,in that Sky could easily sort out any "rights" issues by offering some of our Subscription rise-That they choose not to is Greedy.
mm

roy

Last month sky appointed former TV3 executive, Mr Mark Deering, as head of its Irish operation. Has any one got a e-mail address for him. It might be a good idea to send the e-mails to him as well. It would be interesting to hear his response.

Element 4

I was wondering what the board would think about paying a little extra to get these channels.

After all possibly another £4.00 per month would go some way (not a lot though) towards offsetting the monies lost to the copywright argument.

....mmmmmmm just a thought

Charles Slane

Very interesting question, Element 4.

I would certainly be willing to pay extra for the full range of services (the digtial Beebs, ITV, ITV2, Channel 4 and Channel 5).

As to how much, I don't know. But I reckon if they asked me for an extra fiver (euro ?), I'd pay it, and probably more besides.

Let's face it, the channels we're missing are of a higher quality than most of the ones we get (BBC Choice versus Hallmark ? Channel 5 versus Granada Plus ? No contest).

But I'd say I'm in a minority of people prepared to pay more.

cableskeptic

Originally posted by Charles Slane


I would certainly be willing to pay extra for the full range of services (the digtial Beebs, ITV, ITV2, Channel 4 and Channel 5).

As to how much, I don't know. But I reckon if they asked me for an extra fiver (euro ?), I'd pay it, and probably more besides.

Let's face it, the channels we're missing are of a higher quality than most of the ones we get (BBC Choice versus Hallmark ? Channel 5 versus Granada Plus ? No contest).

But I'd say I'm in a minority of people prepared to pay more.

I would think you are not in a minority if the UK experience is replicated here i.e. 90% of people watch the top 20 channels (and presumably would be willing to pay for them).

If you look at the UK stats for % viewers for all channels in 2000 you can see that the top 20 channels achieved 90% of the viewership figures and the top 10 channels achieve 85%:

1. itv1 (27.6%); 2. BBC1 (26.6%); 3. BBC2 (10.9%); 4. Channel 4 (9.7%); 5. Channel 5 (5.7); 6. Sky 1 (1.7%); 7. UK Gold (1.2%); 8. Nickelodeon (0.7%); 9. Cartoon Network (0.7%); 10. Sky Premier (0.6%); 11. Sky Sports 2 (0.5%); 12. Living (0.5%); 13. BBC Choice (0.5%); 14. UK Style (0.4%); 15. Disney Channel (0.4%); 16. The Sci-Fi Channel (0.3%); 17. Sky News (0.3%); 18. Sky Moviemax (0.3%); 19. Discovery (0.3%); 20. Challenge TV (0.3%).

I would be happy to pay for a service that provided the top 16 (non-premium) channels without having to receive all the dross currently on Sky.

Sky one-1.7% !!
Obviously Sky are making most of their money from the subscriptions and not from advertising revenue,with figures like that!
This just underlines the fact, that they are a Scrooge organisation , ignoring what people want and lining their own pocket instead.
They do provide an excelent service but being a monopoly, they are displaying all the classic symtoms of that illness.It is high time for competition.
mm

Wishing everyone here on the boards a happy Christmas and all the best for 2002:)

Element 4

Test message

Element 4

I sent this to sky on Christmas Day, PAH HUMBUG I wonder what type of reply I will get.............

I am writing to you to voice my annoyance at what I see as blatant discrimination towards your Irish customer.

While acknowledging that the Irish customer my not be as important to you as your UK customer (well this is how it appears to us over here any way) I feel that if you are operating as a supplier of digital television in this market than you should be fit to provide a full and proper service and not what you are giving us at the moment.

My main complaints are as follows.

1. We do not get the full compliment of BBC channels i.e. Choice, News 24 etc. Could it be that Sky is afraid to offer what is clearly superior programming? Also we have to view the UTV picture through the “OTHER CHANNELS” menu , why oh why can you not put this on the EPG and show the Irish customer that you do actually care. Also by letting us have the channels that we want you would be putting yourself in a better position to fight the already inept and stone age attempt that we have of a cable system.
2. Every time there is a phone number given out for a phone in it is always a uk number that us poor saps are unable to dial like an ) 0845 or such like. Our national carrier RTE have spent thousands on making a phone service available to the UK so WHY CAN’T YOU?????

The overall picture quality is usually quite good unless you are looking a movie where there is smoke passing through the scene then you can be assured that all you have being told about the superior digital picture is a load of Bo###ox.

You have a lot to improve on, so might I suggest that in the early part of 2002 that you get the finger out and do it.

Signed , a disgruntled customer
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

cableskeptic

Originally posted by madman
Sky one-1.7% !!
Obviously Sky are making most of their money from the subscriptions and not from advertising revenue,with figures like that!
This just underlines the fact, that they are a Scrooge organisation , ignoring what people want and lining their own pocket instead.

I found the viewership figures for the ROI in 2000:

1 RTE 1 30.6%
2 UTV 14.8%
3 Network 2 10.5%
4 BBC 1 10.2%
5 Other TV 9.5%
6 TV 3 7.1%
7 CH 4 6.0%
8 BBC 2 4.7%
9 SKY 1 3.9%
10 TG4 1.6%
11 SKY News 1.2%

90.5% for the top 10 channels. Madman has a good theory about one of the reasons Sky might not be in a hurry to carry UTV (on the EPG), Channel 4 and the new BBC channels i.e. all of these would eat into the Sky 1 viewership of 3.9%.

Element 4

hmmmmmmm Sky One more popular than TG4 interesting, but TG4 more popular than Sky News that's amazing.............



Now where's me bottle o brandy, roll on the new year

E4:rolleyes:

Charles Slane

Hi Element 4, great e-mail to Sky. Hopefully your less respectful tone might get a better response than this one I received today.

First my original e-mail -

"I'm a Sky Digital customer in the Republic of Ireland and I was wondering if the new BBC3 and 4 will be available to Irish viewers (as BBC 1 and 2 already are).

Also, why are the BBC Radio stations not available on the EPG here (with the exception of World Service and BBC Radio Cymru) ? We can tune them in via "Other Channels", so it's hardly a rights issue. It would however be more convenient to have access to them on the EPG, as the programme information
can be very helpful.

I'm sure that the availability of all BBC channels would be a major boost in Sky's move into the Irish market. After all, an ad that says "Sky Digital !! Now with BBC 3, BBC 4, BBC News 24 and BBC Radio" is going to sell a lot more digiboxes than an ad that says "Now with Simply Shopping+"."

And now their stunning reply -

"Thank you for your e-mail. Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding.

Although BBC broadcasts as part of the Sky digital platform, it also
operates as an independent company, therefore, Sky has no involvement with the programming or schedule times on this channel. I have listed below their details should you want to contact them direct with regards to BBC channels broadcasting in ROI.

Tel No:0208 743 8000

I hope that the above information is of value to you and may I thank you,
once again, for your interest in Sky.

Regards

Janette Forsyth
Viewer Relations"

Somehow Janette Forsyth seems to think I was looking for information about BBC programming rather than channel carriage. It makes you wonder if they actually read the e-mails at all !! I've re-read my original message and I really can't see how anyone could send the reply she did. It just doesn't make sense !!

By the way Cableskeptic, what makes up the "Other TV" that it manages to get 9.5% of Irish viewers ?

Originally posted by charles slane:

Somehow Janette Forsyth seems to think I was looking for information about BBC programming rather than channel carriage. It makes you wonder if they actually read the e-mails at all !! I've re-read my original message and I really can't see how anyone could send the reply she did. It just doesn't make sense !!

Oh they read the e-mails alright,Charles-they just don't want to answer the question:mad:

Just another example of what to expect from an organisation that cares little about what the customer wants in the ROI.
And in the meantime as theres no competition worth talking about,we'll bleed those Irish people for what we can get.


Am I right in saying Sky are not regulated here?,Do they pay taxes here??,Do they have an Irish call centre???
They aren't worried about those three things-only money-ours:mad:
mm

Charles Slane

Speaking of the Call Centre thing - at one stage it was a very close thing between Ireland and Scotland as the location for the Sky Call Centre - unfortunately the IDA didn't come up with the goods for Sky (whatever that might have been) and the Call Centre went to Scotland.

Having said that, I have to say that each time I've had cause to ring them (three times) I found them extremely helpful and friendly in a way that you wouldn't normally associate with call centres (to the extent of having a Scottish voice at the end of the line asking me how the weather was in Dublin).

I've dealt with call centres based in Ireland since (Jurys for one), and felt that I might as well have been dealing with the Borg ("no postcode, do not understand - we will assimilate").

I'm still stunned by those TV ratings for 2000, when will we find out how they went for 2001 ?

It looks like BBC1 has beaten ITV for the first time in donkey's years to win 2001. I reckon when the refurbished BBC 3 and 4 hit the airwaves in 2002 they'll wipe the floor with E4 and ITV2.

Element 4

Hi Charles,

firstly if there are any typos then I am sorry but the few pints of Freddies Heinekens best have taken effect.


Now in relation to the Sky Call centre's location in Ireland , well thaproblem does not lie with the IDA.

It was telecom the F**ked up here. We have a telecomuinications company that considers 128kbps HIGH SPEED.

The lack of broad band sent sky and their 1000 + jobs to scotland, so why oh why do we not give out about that instead of the fat ba****d lawlor, but that is a debate for another forum.


But honestly if we had a better telecomuinications infrastructure in ireland we would be better able to not only comuinicate with eachother but attract a better type of job to this country.

Now I am off for a morther f**king hang over.......

Love to all mother..............

E4

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Element 4

I sent this to the BEEEEEEEEB some time ago....

I am writing to you to request that the FULL BBC package (News 24, Choice, Parliament, Knowledge etc.) be made availabel to southern Ireland viewers on the SKY Digital platform.

Is this going to happen and when ???

Many thanks



and this is the reply I got this morning...............


Thank you for your e-mail. Please accept my apologies for the delay in replying. We know our correspondents appreciate a quick response and I am sorry that you have had to wait so long on this occasion.

As you know some BBC services are now available as part of the Sky Family Channels subscription package. As this is a service provided directly by Sky TV, please contact their appropriate office for information on the cost and availability of services provided to the Irish Republic and for information on any plans they may have to add these channels to that package.

Thank you again for contacting the BBC.

Regards



This is what I call a PFO letter, (PLEASE F**K OFF)

oh well thank you auntie...............

E4

Hey Charles,
By making the points above,I am not giving out about the quality of service from the Scottish call centre.
I am just underlining the fact of how Brittish the service is!
NTL an Chorus may be bad but at least they are subject to some Irish laws.

And more importantly despite the poorer quality of Chorus/NTL-They do provide UTV and Channel four, with a bigger subscriber base for their platforms than Sky!!

So what the F***, is Sky's Problem??? other than delaying the advent of those channels as long as possible, to cream as much money out of us as possible:mad:

mm

PacMan

These e-mails that we get back from BBC and Sky are beginning to become a joke. One blames the other. I remember before BBC was on sky I telephoned the BBC call centre. They blamed Sky. And when I phoned Sky ?? You got the drift.
Sky is the better platform in the republic. No doubt about it. But we should have a standard e-mail and send it to both BBC and Sky. (Since they dont read the e-mails as Charles has described)

These e-mails that we get back from BBC and Sky are beginning to become a joke. One blames the other. I remember before BBC was on sky I telephoned the BBC call centre. They blamed Sky. And when I phoned Sky ?? You got the drift.

The passing the blame from Billy to Jack and back again,is in effect a "PFO" from Sky on the one hand and on the other from the BBC,it's telling us who the real culprits are and that is SKY,as they are the ones who increased our subscriptions in the promise of extra channels and what did we get???
mm

cableskeptic

Originally posted by Charles Slane

By the way Cableskeptic, what makes up the "Other TV" that it manages to get 9.5% of Irish viewers ?

Sorry Charles: I only have a summary of the AC Nielson survey for 2000. If anyone has more details then please post.