Campaign for BBC3, 4, News 24 and BBC Radio in Ireland.

Charles Slane

This follows on from a previous thread about Radio 5 Live being available on BBC Radio Cymru after midnight, where I said ..

"It's definitely time to put pressure on Sky and the Beeb to put the radio stations on the EPG, give us 5 Live, and make Knowledge, Choice and News 24 available. Because when Knowledge and Choice change into BBC 3 and 4, we're really going to start missing out on good programmes (their budgets will increase significantly).

Somebody start a campaign !!"

Then I realised that I might as well be the one to start it.

So maybe people don't think that an e-mail campaign would really influence the powers that be in Sky and the BBC, but how else are they to know what we want ?

I have no doubt that e-mails from posters on this board to Sky and RTE asking when RTE would be made available on Sky Digital has had some bearing on the fact that it's due to arrive in April.

The same with BBC 1 and 2.

So why not let them know that we want BBC 3 and 4 from the start.

The situation with the radio stations is just ridiculous !! We can pick them up through Other Channels, but they don't appear on the EPG. Yet BBC Radio Cymru is there now. So why not the rest ? If the Beeb are prepared to pay for an EPG placing for Radio Cymru, why not BBC Radio 1 ? And how much would Sky charge them for an EPG radio placing in Ireland anyway ?

So the plan is this - we e-mail Sky and the BBC and let them know we want these channels.

I don't have the relevant e-mail addresses to hand. Anyone know what they are ? As soon as we get them I suggest we all start mailing.

Let's face it, it can't do any harm.

Charles Slane

Th e-mail address for Sky is viewerr@bskyb.com

The more e-mails they get, the quicker they'll realise that it would be a good idea to put the extra BBCs on Irish Sky Digital. After all an ad that says "Now with BBC 3, BBC 4 and BBC News 24" is going to sell a lot more digiboxes than an ad that say "Now with Simply Shopping+".

Charles Slane

I got these off the ICDG site.

To e-mail BBC -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/contact/com_email.shtml

To e-mail Sky -

http://www1.sky.com/Home/Feedback.html

Now we have the addresses, we can give them an e-mail wake-up call.

I've e-mailed the following message to Sky -

Hi,

I'm a Sky Digital customer in the Republic of Ireland and I was wondering if the new BBC3 and 4 will be available to Irish viewers (as BBC 1 and 2 already are).

Also, why are the BBC Radio stations not available on the EPG here (with the exception of World Service and BBC Radio Cymru) ? We can tune them in via "Other Channels", so it's hardly a rights issue. It would however be more convenient to have access to them on the EPG, as the programme information can be very helpful.

I'm sure that the availability of all BBC channels would be a major boost in Sky's move into the Irish market. After all, an ad that says "Sky Digital !! Now with BBC 3, BBC 4, BBC News 24 and BBC Radio" is going to sell a lot more digiboxes than an ad that says "Now with Simply Shopping+".

DMC

This is a very good idea, but we need to organise this in some way shape or form.

I think we should have a concerted effort to mail them, each of us, with a standard e-mail, explaining what we need.

I think it is up to us, for our fellow countrymen, to get them the same choice as other subscribers in the UK.

Points that have to be raised are; why are these channels not available in the first place; is it because of some agreement with the cable companies are not available, and the point I made on an earlier thread, why cant we have any colour of BBC News channel available?

Damien.

PacMan

Charles, another excellent idea. I am actually excited about this.
As Sky/BBC/TV3 send us all back standard e-mails with the usual message. Why not, as Damo suggested, compose a standard e-mail which we could all copy/paste, and send it to Sky and BBC.
As mentioned the issues should be
1) the BBC radio in the add channels but not on the epg
2) Radio stations on NTL cable in dublin but not on sky digital
3) BBC news 24 being blocked to irish viewers
4) BBC 3 and BBC 4 being on the epg.

After all we do love the BBC

Mossy Monk

let's not forget S4C. it is on the EPG so i think there must have been a plan for this coming here at some stage. we have S4C2, so why not the other one. all that rugby would be great

here is the contact address:
http://www.s4c.co.uk/e-index.html

Charles Slane

I posted a comment on the BBC link (above). I've copied it below. Have a read and see if you can come up with any suggestions to improve it. When we get something we're happy with, we can all copy and paste it (with a few personal variations here and there). The e-mail for Sky is probably even more important, so how about suggestions for that one too.

"Hi,

I'm a Sky Digital customer in the Republic of Ireland and I was wondering if the new BBC3 and 4 will be available to Irish viewers (as BBC 1 and 2 already are).

Also, why are the BBC Radio stations not available on the EPG here (with the exception of World Service and BBC Radio Cymru) ? We can tune them in via "Other Channels", so it's hardly a rights issue. It would however be more convenient to have access to them on the EPG, as the programme information can be very helpful.

The radio stations are already available in NTL cable in Dublin (including Radio 5 Live).

We also have access to BBC News 24 on BBC 1, so why not put it on the Irish EPG too ?

Thanks for your time,

Charles Slane."

DMC

Folks, maybe I'm going too far by saying this, but maybe those of us who want to do this, we should do this off the forum, away from prying eyes.

I'm sure they've seen forums like this, so if we organise a campaign in full view of them, I dont think our plan will work.

Letters can be posted here when we are satisfied about what should be included in the mails to the various broadcasters.

Just thought I'd throw that in there, let me know what you think.

Damien (BTW, Charles, the letter is excellent, but I'd put News 24 up higher in the list of demands Sounds like a ransom note now )

byte

Here's my wee list of proper email addresses:

reception@bbc.co.uk

dot4@channel4.com

dutyoffice@channel5.co.uk

haydej@rte.ie (may be different now)

info@tv3.ie

info@utvplc.com


Hope these help

Charles Slane

Thanks for the addresses IrishByte.

The BBC address looks like a better bet than the one I used (it seemed to be more for comments about individual programmes).

NIBBS

Great idea Charles,

I've popped off a couple of mails to them this morning, hopefully this will make some headway,

smoke.me.a.kipper

i just fired off a couple of e-mails. hopefully this will help

Just here to express my support for this campaign.
Would reccommend spreading the word among Sky customers here to pass on their feelings about it.
But I have my doubts about it working:(
mm

Charles Slane

I understand your doubts, but if Sky don't know that we want these channels they're not going to bother making any effort to add them to our line-up.

For example - I've been a fan of Radio 5 Live for years, but I didn't realise there were so many Irish people who loved it too until the Radio 5 thread was started. If all of those people who contributed to that thread e-mailed Sky requesting that the BBC Radio stations were added to the Irish EPG, at least it lets them know that there is a demand for it.

There doesn't have to be thousands of us e-mailing, because Sky would realise that each person who goes to the trouble of e-mailing probably represents a further thousand who don't. But obviously the more of us who send e-mails, the more likely it is that they'll consider doing something about it.

I think the important thing to stress in our e-mails to Sky is that the BBC (TV and Radio) is a desirable brand to viewers in Ireland (probably even more so than RTE), and their inclusion in the Irish package would be a very strong selling point for Sky Digital in Ireland.

Agreed Charles.
however I suspect the underlying problem here is that BBC radio is UK license funded as are,choice,24 and Knowledge.
The Board of Governors of the BBC are largely Public School educated stiff upper lip believers in Public service broadcasting.
To them we here in ROI are essentially foreigners and not entitled to a UK public service:( (unless we pay for it )
The fact that the radio channels are available to tune in manually is an anomoly (have I spelt that right?) as strictly speaking they are making the likes of Radio one available via an Irish digital platform (albeit a UK based one) and yet the music they play probably only has the rights cleared for the UK and not ROI!

While it does no harm to tell the BBC etc what we want-I suspect , the biggest weight of our arguement should be directed at Sky. They are responsible for getting us the channels as part of our subscription and REALLY we as Customers are paying them increased Subscriptions now , the excuse they gave for rising it was that they were adding more channels.
The real reason is they wanted more profit.
The return for us having to pay more, should be by giving the subscriber the channels that this thread is demanding and that all their Subscribers would welcome!!!

After all if the cash starved NTL can afford to have UK radio stations,ITV and channel 4 with a subscriber base similar if not bigger than SKY-THEN whats Sky's problem???(we'll have them eventually, after RTE goes on no doubt-couldn't have it's rivals on there first??)
It's all a load of politics and if you ask me discrimination against us Out here in the sticks! ( although I've decent fm and mw reception from the UK here-but thats the eastcoast overspill)
mm

Charles Slane

And thank God for the East Coast overspill !! If it wasn't for that I'd have grown up with only Wanderly Wagon to amuse me. HTV was a saviour (despite the Welsh language programmes, I always preferred it to UTV, who didn't have Tiswas)

I agree that our efforts are probably best directed at Sky, although I don't think that any harm will done by letting the BBC know that there's an inconsistency in allowing us to watch BBC 1 and 2 on Sky Digital, but not watch the other TV channels or listen to the radio stations. (Did I spell "inconsistency" right ?)

In the meantime, however I got a reply from the BBC online comments page -

Dear Charles

Thank you for your e-mail.

I have passed your query to my colleagues in Reception Advice, who deal with all reception and digital enquiries. For future reference their e-mail address is: reception@bbc.co.uk

Regards

Gemma Cowles
BBC Information


I have already e-mailed reception@bbc.co.uk so we'll see if they reply. If they do I'll let you know.

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by Charles Slane
In the meantime, however I got a reply from the BBC online comments page -

Dear Charles

Thank you for your e-mail.

I have passed your query to my colleagues in Reception Advice, who deal with all reception and digital enquiries. For future reference their e-mail address is: reception@bbc.co.uk

Regards

Gemma Cowles
BBC Information

the same one i got. word for word

byte

You should have used the links I posted above! Anyhoo, I have emailed both Sky and Beeb last night but no replies yet. Just another fecking virus mail! Damn I hate that!:(

Charles Slane

Thanks IrishByte.

I did e-mail that address as soon as you posted it, but I got no reply yet either.

Originally posted by Charles Slane:

And thank God for the East Coast overspill !! If it wasn't for that I'd have grown up with only Wanderly Wagon to amuse me. HTV was a saviour (despite the Welsh language programmes, I always preferred it to UTV, who didn't have Tiswas)

Yup Tiswas was great-but even better, (as I was a kid at the time ) was the late night adult version OTT ! (gee I feel old now!)

We all seem to be getting the same replies to our e-mails btw.
mm

Mossy Monk

i received the following from S4C today

Thank you for getting in touch with us regarding S4C Digital. I'm glad
to
hear that you feel the channel would be welcomed in Ireland.

Unfortunately, for copyright reasons, S4C Digital is not available
outside
the UK. S4C had originally hoped to broadcast unencrypted, but were
forced
to scramble the service to prevent its reception in other European
countries.

There are, however, plans to move S4C Digital to a different satellite,
which has a beam more tightly focussed on the UK. If and when this
comes
about, it will no longer be necessary to encrypt the signal as it will
be
available in a much smaller geographical area. The satellite footprint
is
likely to include the entire British Isles, so you may find yourself
able to
receive Welsh programmes after all.

I cannot, unfortunately, give any dates for a move to unencrypted
transmission.

sounds great that they will be moving unencrypted to Astra 2D but when? anyone have any idea

Mossy,
This reply you got is typical of the kind of replies , I have got from BBC and ITV technical people over the years.
They are always delighted to know that you are either watching or want to watch and are very nice.
Unfortunately the further up the ladder you go with your query, the less friendly and more automated the response
It is good though that they are planning this-perhaps, their sister station Channel Four might be thinking along the same lines??

The reply ignores the fact that,for copyright purposes we here in ROI are also outside the UK,and therefore technically s4c would still be in trouble allowing reception in ROI.

I think the Ball and the blame should firmly in Sky's court!!!
They are increasing the Sub, on the pretense (spellings....?) of adding more channels-BUT they Blatantly (worse spelling:D )refuse to give us the ones we want...why??????????????
mm

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by madman
I think the Ball and the blame should firmly in Sky's court!!!
They are increasing the Sub, on the pretense (spellings....?) of adding more channels-BUT they Blatantly (worse spelling:D )refuse to give us the ones we want...why??????????????
mm

Sky is definately to blame in all of this. they did put the subscription up in the promise of new channels, but how many channels have we received that are encrypted. a lot of the channels we have received are rubbish FTA shopping ones, some time shifted versions of shopping channels. it is all very dissappointing that i am paying £41.7? per month and am getting nothing new back after the near £6 increase, while some channels are closing. knowing them they will justify the increase on the arrival of Sky Active next year :mad: . if we get genuine replies from Sky (chances of that being???) it will be interesting to see what the say

rAzOz1303

I sent an e-mail to several organisations over the weekend and so far only UTV has had the courtesy to reply.

it reads as follows - "Thank you for your e-mail.
The ITV network agreement with Sky makes UTV available on Channel 103 in Northern Ireland only. We are looking into the possibility of providing our service throughout Ireland on satellite, but there are a number of issues involved so we cannot elaborate any further at this stage."

Make of this what you will, but quite frankly I am a little disappointed in the lack of a availability of terrestrial channels on Digi Sat.

Time for Sky, UTV, BBC etc to get the finger out and make these available. After all when I worked in RTE some time ago I remember some of the sales force being up in arms because UTV were openly sending its reps south for our advertising, so this begs the question, IS OUR MONEY NOT GOOD ENOUGH NOW !!!!!

Angry

Razor

DMC

Ohhh our money is good enough, no doubt about that.
How good it is, is open for debate, and that debating must be happening within ITV.

UTV have an unofficial overlap area that is called the Republic of Ireland, and that, I know, makes other ITV regions very uneasy and jealous of UTV's position in the Irish market. After all, other ITV regions are restricted by what advertising you can get by geography, and have relatively small overlap areas. They didn't take a blind bit of notice when you could get UTV via aerial, and when cable started springing up around the place, UTV were chummy with the other ITV companies, cos they were wee and small. But nowadays its different. UTV won't market ITV Digital in NI, the ITV Sport Channel is not available and UTV 2 is still on the air. And as income is dropping in GB for ITV, UTV hasn't been hit too hard in the collapse of advertising, because of the backup of ROI income.

So the ROI market looking healthy to ITV, and thats why there is boot-dragging going on.

Worth throwing a mail at the ITV Network Centre, just to see what they say.....

Damo,
Can I read into that,that the other ITV regions would like a slice of the Irish market via Sky digital-another reason for the hold up??
Also-they can't really be too jealous of the "all Ireland" market as in total it would only be equal or less than some of the individual ITV region populations.
At any rate,theres only really two companies,Granada and Carlton-so two massive populations.
Their game must be get a slice of ROI-but how lucrative is it ?
hardly worth the hassle?? for them anyhow-Unless of course Granada's share of TV3 comes into play-now theres a reason to be unhappy with UTV-pardon my French-but Granada,take a 100mtr dash off a 50mtr pier:mad:
mm

Charles Slane

In a strange way Ireland has two competing ITV franchises - UTV and Granada (while officially having none at the same time).

UTV get a lot of advertising here and Granada have their interest in TV3. They're both out to get as much advertising as possible, so I can see how Granada might have objections to UTV being available on Sky Digital ahead of TV3.

Whatever it is , I wish they'd sort it out.

Hey Charles,
I made that point re: Granada way back in your "something's happening" thread ( seems like years ago now ).
I would hazzard a guess that TV3 aka Granada will put plenty flies in the ointment before we see Channel four on the Irish EPG.

What makes me very mad:mad: :mad: :mad: is that Sky should be doing what they said they were rising our Subscriptions for ie; use OUR money to give us Channell four and UTV (on the epg) and indeed Channel five! after all the money is supposedly paid over for EXTRA channels.

I think they will all come on in April, imho, when RTE is there.

Sky are hardly going to keep them off, if they are on an Irish DTT service when that starts.
But it just shows Sky up for what a shower of Miser's they are:mad:
IE: They put up the price, but wait until the last minute to come up with the goods(if at all):mad:
Competition was never more needed. Roll on 2002 and see what happens.
mm

DMC

Originally posted by madman
Damo,
Can I read into that,that the other ITV regions would like a slice of the Irish market via Sky digital-another reason for the hold up??

I wouldn't say they'd like a slice of the market, it is too small a pie to divvy out, but I'd expect concessions on UTV's part to get UTV on Sky Digital here, such as ITV Sport Channel, ITV 2 etc. But as I go on, this is unlikely be the case.

Also-they can't really be too jealous of the "all Ireland" market as in total it would only be equal or less than some of the individual ITV region populations.

Not small or insignificant enough for Granada to buy into TV3.

Their game must be get a slice of ROI-but how lucrative is it ?
hardly worth the hassle?? for them anyhow-Unless of course Granada's share of TV3 comes into play-now theres a reason to be unhappy with UTV-pardon my French-but Granada,take a 100mtr dash off a 50mtr pier:mad:

Bingo! There you are! You're right, its not worth the hassle, but there is a conflict of interest. Granada have interests down here, TV3 would probably launch when RTÉ does. All that has to be in UTV's case is flick the big switch to existing ROI subscribers. Granada, I think are making UTV sweat it out. Yes, UTV would be marginally more appealing to me than TV3.
My guess, UTV wont appear before TV3 does.

But its all about squezzing as much juice from the ad man's udder. And at the moment, that cash cow has mastitis. :mad:

Charles Slane

I can't believe it !! It's a week since I e-mailed Sky and the BBC and still no reply from either.

Has anyone else gotten a reply yet ?

And if not, why not ? Are their customer services so busy, or is it that they don't give a damn about their Irish viewers/subscribers ?

PacMan

Like Charles I too am waiting on a reply from both Sky and the BBC. UTV have replied stating what has already been posted here. I telephoned Sky at their 1-800 number twice last night and spoke with two different C/S agents. Both said they had no information and to keep looking in the Irish edition of the Sky magazine for updates. If we cannot get BBC News 24, why not try for BBC world!!! I have often watched it on Hotbird and although it has commericals (In many cases a lack of) perhaps we could try and convince them to put this service on..... Just an idea