Campaign for BBC3, 4, News 24 and BBC Radio in Ireland.

ShaneOC · 17-01-2002 12:42pm

Also Charles if you are going to reply then you should point out that for some strange reason BBC Radio Cymru is on the Irish EPG. Maybe there is a good reason why this and only this BBC radio channel is available here. (I know the world service is there but that is aimed at a worldwide audience, Radio Cymru is not).

smoke.me.a.kipper · 17-01-2002 4:33pm

i got the same one as charles,

Dear Ciaran

Thank you for your recent email to Tony Ball who has asked me to respond on
his behalf.

With regard to your query on terrestrial channels being available in the
Republic of Ireland. Please allow me to explain.

Sky's aim is to encourage all UK based and Irish terrestrial channels on to
digital satellite and, as you are aware, BBC1 and BB2 are now available to
Sky customers in the Republic of Ireland. I am happy to advise that RTE has
announced that it's three channels will be joining Sky in April and that
talks with others are continuing.

When the radio stations launched the BBC decided not to make them available
in the Republic of Ireland. Therefore, Sky has only been given limited
rights to make certain BBC services available in certain locations.

Sky is always willing to discuss carriage and, in fact, are already
discussing carriage with terrestrial broadcasters on availability and access
to these channels for our customers in the Republic of Ireland. However,
distribution of these channels is subject to commercial negotiation and the
willingness of other broadcasters to be distributed on Sky.

I very much hope that I have clarified our position in this matter and
thanks, once again, for contacting us. We always welcome customers'
comments and actively encourage viewers' feedback.

Yours sincerely

Penny Harris
Viewer Relations

:mad: :mad: :mad:

ShaneOC · 17-01-2002 5:17pm

Found this email address. bbcworldwide@bbc.co.uk

I expect that if you mark it for the attention of Rupert Gavin you may get some response.

smoke.me.a.kipper · 17-01-2002 5:30pm

cheers for the addy, shane. yet another e-mail sent.

17-01-2002 7:32pm

These latest replies seem to my mind only a re-hash of the usual clap trap, we've been getting ; ie:Sky says it the other broadcasters who don't want to go on SD EPG in ROI and the Broadcasters blame Sky.
however the following from the letter:
"Sky is always willing to discuss carriage and, in fact, are already
discussing carriage with terrestrial broadcasters on availability and access
to these channels for our customers in the Republic of Ireland. However,
distribution of these channels is subject to commercial negotiation and the
willingness of other broadcasters to be distributed on Sky."

Suggests Negotiations -but over what??? UTV are on record as being willing!
More money ? Mean Sky again-they don't give a damn,I say they don't give a damn about us.
Just the run a round!
Buts lets keep annoying them anyhow:mad:
mm

David C · 17-01-2002 9:16pm

I sent this to Tony Ball last week and also got the same reply yesterday....... :mad: :mad:

Hello,

I am very disappointed in the lack of interest Sky shows for their Irish
customers wishes...

Here, cable operators, ntl (www.ntl.ie) and Chorus (www.chorus.ie)
both include both UTV & Channel 4 to all viewers and supply all of
the BBC Radio stations in their basic packages, but Sky continue to
deprive their Irish subscribers of these stations. From talking to friends
and reading various internet discussion groups, it is clear to me there
is great demand for these stations to appear on Sky.

On contacting Sky on this subject in the past, I and others are told,
in an attempt to divert blame to ring the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 etc.
and that the matter is nothing to do with them.

On contacting the channels, they say they have no problem with being
placed on the EPG in Ireland but it is Sky who has the control to do this.
Makes sense...... Back to Sky to explain their replies and you get
ignored.

I get the impression that Sky's website feedback service is merely a
waffle wall between the customer and the people at the top who can
make a difference. When it gets down to actually getting anything done
it is useless.

So to summarise what I and 1000's of other Sky subscribers here in
Ireland want:
A: BBC Radio's 1-5... (Already available on your competition - NTL)
B: UTV, Channel 4 (Already available on NTL & Chorus)
C: The BBC's digital channels... Choice (BBC 3), Knowledge (BBC 4)
and News 24.

If this could be done (it can be!) Sky could present their Irish customers
with a real alternative to cable and gain many subscribers,

Looking forward to some answers!
Thank you,
David

Dear David

Thank you for your recent email to Tony Ball who has asked me to respond on
his behalf.

With regard to your disappointment at the lack of terrestrial channels being
available in the Republic of Ireland. Please allow me to explain.

Sky's aim is to encourage all UK based and Irish terrestrial channels on to
digital satellite and, as you are aware, BBC1 and BB2 are now available to
Sky customers in the Republic of Ireland. I am happy to advise that RTE has
announced that it's three channels will be joining Sky in April and that
talks with others are continuing.

When the radio stations launched the BBC decided not to make them available
in the Republic of Ireland. Therefore, Sky has only been given limited
rights to make certain BBC services available in certain locations.

Sky is always willing to discuss carriage and, in fact, are already
discussing carriage with terrestrial broadcasters on availability and access
to these channels for our customers in the Republic of Ireland. However,
distribution of these channels is subject to commercial negotiation and the
willingness of other broadcasters to be distributed on Sky.

I very much hope that I have clarified our position in this matter and
thanks, once again, for contacting us. We always welcome customers'
comments and actively encourage viewers' feedback.

Kind regards

Yours sincerely

Penny Harris
Viewer Relations:mad:

Also I sent this to veiwerR@bskyb.com:

Having gotten Sky Digital recently, I am disappointed to find that
whilst
BBC 1, BBC 2, BBC RWorld Service & BBC RCymru are available here, UTV,
Channel 4 & BBC Radio 1-5 have all been blocked from the Sky EPG... ntl
broadcast ALL of these channels so I cannot yet cancel my subscription
with
them. Sky seem to be letting the competition win!

Also I would love to be able to view BBC News 24, Choice & Knowledge as
I
do when I visit London.... excellent stations!

I would appreciate if you'd let me know what you are doing to allow
these
channels through over here as the service won't be complete until they
arrive...
Also please bring this to the attention of all staff in charge of
channels
at Sky by forwarding this mail to them,
Thanks,
David,
Dublin - Ireland.

I got this reply....
Dear David

Thank you for your e-mail. Please accept my apologies for the delay in
responding.

Please allow me to advise that with the exception of Talk Radio and BBC5
Live the BBC Radio channels are available via Sky digital in the ROI.

Should you be experiencing any problems receiving these channels please do
not hesitate to contact the Sky digital technical helpline on 08702 435000.

Unfortunately, I have no information on BBC News24, BBC Choice, BBC
Knowledge, Channel 4 or UTV launching on the Sky digital platform in
Ireland.

However for further information you may wish to contact the BBC, Channel 4
and ITV direct. I have listed their telephone numbers below for your
information.

BBC Tel No: 0208 743 8000

Channel 4 Tel No: 0207 306 8333

ITV Tel No: 0207 843 8000

I hope that the above information is of value to you and may I thank you,
once again, for your interest in Sky.

Helen Dewar
Viewer Relations

I replied with this:

> Dear David
>
> Thank you for your e-mail. Please accept my apologies for the delay in
> responding.
>
> Please allow me to advise that with the exception of Talk Radio and BBC5
> Live the BBC Radio channels are available via Sky digital in the ROI.

Helen,

This is a common misunderstanding within Sky. These channels were removed
from
the EPG (e.g. numbers 851,852,853 etc.) from the beginning here in Ireland.
The only
way of listening to them is through the "Other Channels" function, which is
highly
inconvenient, doesn't allow for programme info on radio stations, and very
often
leaves the box unstable when returning to the normal EPG channels (this is a
general problem in all digiboxs).
So I ask this of you... raise the issue with your colleagues that are in the
positions
to make changes happen, and after, if you cannot get anything done, then at
least
register my dissatisfaction of not having the BBC Radios available to me at
the touch of a button like with NTL cable. Trust me, if these stations,
BBC R1-4 (even without 5) were added to the EPG here, it would make your
service far more attractive to potential subscribers, and would make me
allot
happier.

> Should you be experiencing any problems receiving these channels please do
> not hesitate to contact the Sky digital technical helpline on 08702
435000.
>
> Unfortunately, I have no information on BBC News24, BBC Choice, BBC
> Knowledge, Channel 4 or UTV launching on the Sky digital platform in
> Ireland.
>
> However for further information you may wish to contact the BBC, Channel 4
> and ITV direct. I have listed their telephone numbers below for your
> information.

On contacting BBC, they reply saying to contact my "Digital TV supplier"
about
the addition of their services, so the ball is in your court it seems.

> I hope that the above information is of value to you and may I thank you,
> once again, for your interest in Sky.

> Helen Dewar
> Viewer Relations

Many thanks Helen for your time and attention,
Look forward to hearing from you again,

David.

She replied with this:

Dear David

Thank you for your e-mail.

Firstly, please accept my apologies for the delay in responding.

Unfortunately, I can only, with respect, reiterate the previous response
given.

At present BBC Radio have decided not to make their channels available on
the Sky digital channel guide for viewers in the Republic of Ireland.

Sky always welcome viewers' comments and feedback and all the points raised
in your email have been noted and passed to the relevant department for
their information.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to write to us and for your
interest in Sky.

Helen Forbes
Viewer Relations.

I then emailed UTV and got this back from "Lucy Sturdy"
Thank you for your e-mail.

The ITV network agreement with Sky makes UTV available on Channel 103 in
Northern Ireland only. We are looking into the possibility of providing our
service throughout Ireland on satellite, but there are a number of issues
involved so we cannot elaborate any further at this stage.

The more emails the better so keep sending everyone!! I've sent mail to reception@bbc.co.uk and Channel 4 and I'm awaiting replies and will post them up here when I get anything.

Genghis · 17-01-2002 10:32pm

David,

Good Work! I particularly liked your letter to Tony Ball. It must be disheartening to receive the standard reply. Fair play to you for challenging every answer!

Lenny · 18-01-2002 12:06am

Finally a responce!
Here's what I sent.

Original Message
From: matt leonard [ <mailto:mleonardeire@hotmail.com>
mailto:mleonardeire@hotmail.com]
Sent: 11 January 2002 09:05 PM
To: tony.ball@bskyb.com
Subject: BBC

Hello, This is my second E-mail to Sky, I still haven't recieved my first
one back... I recently sent BCC an E-mail, here is a copy of what I sent.

Hi,

I'm a Sky Digital customer in the Republic of Ireland and I was
wondering if the new BBC3 and 4 will be available to Irish viewers (as
BBC 1 and 2 already are).

Also, why are the BBC Radio stations not available on the EPG here (with
the exception of World Service and BBC Radio Cymru) ? We can tune them
in via "Other Channels", so it's hardly a rights issue. It would however
be more convenient to have access to them on the EPG, as the programme
information can be very helpful.

I'm sure that the availability of all BBC channels would be a major
boost in Sky's move into the Irish market. After all, an ad that says
"Sky Digital !! Now with BBC 3, BBC 4, BBC News 24 and BBC Radio" is
going to sell a lot more digiboxes than an ad that says "Now with Simply
Shopping+".

This is another reply I got off BBC

Dear Matthew

Thank you for your e-mail, which has been forwarded to us for reply.

As you may know the proposed BBC THREE and BBC FOUR channels are to be
available
on digital in the UK. Direct, free reception of BBC domestic TV via digital
satellite is not possible outside the UK due to programme rights
restrictions.
However, some BBC services are now available as part of the Sky Family
Channels
subscription package. As this is a service provided directly by Sky TV,
please
contact their appropriate office for information on the cost and
availability of
services provided to the Irish Republic. It is a matter for SKY if they
choose
to negotiate the rights to broadcast BBC THREE and FOUR in the Republic of
Ireland and they should be able to advise you of any plans they may have.

Similarly the EPG is the responsibility of SKY and I would suggest you
contact
your supplier directly if you have difficulty with the EPG or wish to
suggest
alterations.

Thank you again for contacting the BBC. I hope you continue to enjoy BBC
programmes.

Regards

Stewart McCullough
BBC Information

Here is a quote now, what have you(Sky) got to say about this?
"It is a matter for SKY if they choose to negotiate the rights to broadcast
BBC THREE and FOUR in the Republic of Ireland and they should be able to
advise you of any plans they may have."

I am *very* intrested in hearing a responce,

Many thanks for your time,

Matt.

Their responce.

Dear Matt

Thank you for your recent email to Tony Ball who has asked me to respond on
his behalf.

With regard to your query on terrestrial channels being available in the
Republic of Ireland. Please allow me to explain.

Sky's aim is to encourage all UK based and Irish terrestrial channels on to
digital satellite and, as you are aware, BBC1 and BB2 are now available to
Sky customers in the Republic of Ireland. Incidentally, I am happy to advise
that RTE has announced that it's three channels will be joining Sky in April
and that talks with others are continuing.

When the radio stations launched the BBC decided not to make them available
in the Republic of Ireland. Therefore, Sky has only been given limited
rights to make certain BBC services available in certain locations.

Sky is always willing to discuss carriage and, in fact, are already
discussing carriage with terrestrial broadcasters on availability and access
to these channels for our customers in the Republic of Ireland. However,
distribution of these channels is subject to commercial negotiation and the
willingness of other broadcasters to be distributed on Sky.

I very much hope that I have clarified our position in this matter and
thanks, once again, for contacting us. We always welcome customers'
comments and actively encourage viewers' feedback.

Kind regards

Yours sincerely

Penny Harris
Viewer Relations

:mad:
Saem responce as everyone else

Lenny · 18-01-2002 12:07am

Also noticed this one

Dear Matt

Thank you for your e-mail.

Firstly, please accept my apologies for the delay in responding and the lack
of response to your original e-mail.

Unfortunately, no information is available at present with regard to BBC3
launching in the Republic of Ireland.

Although BBC channels broadcast as part of the Sky digital platform, it also
operates as an independent company, therefore, Sky has no involvement with
the programming on this channel.

However, you may wish to contact these channels direct for further
information. I have listed their contact details below:

BBC - 08700 100222

At present BBC Radio have decided not to make their channels available on
the Sky digital channel guide for viewers in the Republic of Ireland.

Thanks, once again, for contacting us. We always welcome customers'
comments and actively encourage viewers' feedback.

Helen Forbes
Viewer Relations

It aannoys me the way they always say this Thanks, once again, for contacting us. We always welcome customers'
comments and actively encourage viewers' feedback.

byte · 18-01-2002 1:14am

Sky is always willing to discuss carriage and, in fact, are already
discussing carriage with terrestrial broadcasters on availability and access
to these channels for our customers in the Republic of Ireland. However,
distribution of these channels is subject to commercial negotiation and the
willingness of other broadcasters to be distributed on Sky.

How long does it take to 'discuss' carriage for channels?

Example~

TonyBall: Hello Channel 4. We would like to air your channel in ROI

C4: Umm. What's in it for us?

Tony: Well it'll cost you nowt extra and you will have lots more viewers.

C4: Sounds good. OK
[Tony and C4 shake hands and sign the papers]

Charles Slane · 18-01-2002 11:17am

David C,

Excellent e-mail !!!

I know it may seem frustrating to keep getting these responses, but believe me, our points will eventually reach somebody's ears. We're the customers, and big multi-nationals always (eventually) react to customer demand. They just need to be told what we want (often enough).

I have to say that I'm impressed by the involvement and determination of users of this forum.

The BBC Worldwide e-mail address seems to be worth giving a try. Has anyone mailed them yet ?

ShaneOC · 18-01-2002 11:55am

I am busy composing an email to them at this moment. Will of course let you know how I get on.

ShaneOC · 18-01-2002 2:23pm

Oh dear. Looks like that email address is not valid. Got back an unknown user message.

Will have a look around and see if I can get another contact address.

David C · 18-01-2002 11:38pm

Folks,
Heres some more addresses within Sky I've found:

martin.stewart@bskyb.com - Chief Financial Officer
richard.freudenstein@bskyb.com - General Manager
ian.shepherd@bskyb.com - Marketing Director
geoff.walters@bskyb.com - Chief Technology Officer
elisabeth.murdoch@bskyb.com - Da Bosses Daughter
greg.houfe@bskyb.com - Head of Marketing Operations
tim.allan@bskyb.com - Director of Corporate Communications

That should keep everyone busy for another few days or so!!!
I think Sky have an office in Dublin... now if only i could find their address...:rolleyes:
Keep it up everyone!!

19-01-2002 1:23pm

This is turning out to be one Excellent campaign.
I particularilly like David C's approach!

Gentle persuasion is the way to go,.
Whats going to win out in the end with a campaign like this one in the end is that Sky will realise that they are losing out by not having these channels available on the ROI EPG.

At present obviously-Top brass at Sky think keeping the channels off means they get more money in that they do not lose Advertising revenue to the likes of UTV and Ch4 or indeed that Sky news would be less attractive to Irish advertisers.

A campaign like this one should (all things being equal ) eventually like Charles said above eventually convince sky that they have no need to worry about losing advertising revenue.
they may even gain more viewers as Clearly, those that have put off getting Sky digital and are not cable/mmds/deflector customers have no access to their channels at the moment.

Maybe it would be worth extending this Campaign to the various advertising agencies that do business with Sky One and News.
Ie point out to them that theres a bigger market out there, if only Sky would get sense??
What do people here think??

mm

smoke.me.a.kipper · 19-01-2002 10:30pm

Originally posted by David C
Folks,
Heres some more addresses within Sky I've found:

martin.stewart@bskyb.com - Chief Financial Officer
richard.freudenstein@bksyb.com - General Manager
ian.shepherd@bskyb.com - Marketing Director
geoff.walters@bskyb.com - Chief Technology Officer
elisabeth.murdoch@bskyb.com - Da Bosses Daughter
greg.houfe@bskyb.com - Head of Marketing Operations
tim.allan@bskyb.com - Director of Corporate Communications

That should keep everyone busy for another few days or so!!!
I think Sky have an office in Dublin... now if only i could find their address...:rolleyes:
Keep it up everyone!!

cheers for the e-mails!!

Charles Slane · 20-01-2002 10:19pm

Has anyone else managed to send an e-mail to any of those addresses ?

I keep getting this message for each addressee -

"The message could not be sent because one of the recipients was rejected by the server. The rejected e-mail address was 'tim.allan@bskyb.com'. Subject 'Channel availability in Ireland', Account: 'pop.indigo.ie', Server: 'mail.indigo.ie', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)', Port: 25, Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 553, Error Number: 0x800CCC79"

It might be a temporary thing, but I'd like to know if it's just me or is everyone having the same problem.

David C · 20-01-2002 10:30pm

I didn't have any problems....
Perhaps he has decided to block indigo or .ie servers from bothering him?? I used oceanfree.net.....
Maybe try using a hotmail or .com email service??

David C · 20-01-2002 10:46pm

otherwise just delete tim allan from the TO/BCC list and the others should send fine

Charles Slane · 22-01-2002 12:00pm

Has anyone found an e-mail address for BBC Worldwide ?

I want to send them this e-mail -

"Dear BBC Worldwide,

I'm a Sky Digital customer in the Republic of Ireland and I was wondering if the new BBC3 and 4 services will be available to Irish viewers on the Sky Digital platform (as BBC 1 and 2 already are). At the time that BBC 1 and 2 were made available to Irish viewers it was stated that it was due to a deal between Sky and BBC Worldwide, so I assume that Worldwide has responsibility for which BBC channels are available on Sky Digital in Ireland ...."

It continues in the usual way.

Isn't BBC Worldwide involved in the BBC commercial enterprises (ie. BBC Prime, video sales, book sales etc.) ?

If so, perhaps they are the ones who collect payment from Sky for carriage of BBC 1 and 2 (hence they would have a strong bearing on the new channels availabilty).

ShaneOC · 22-01-2002 12:19pm

I sent a mail to all of the addresses on the BBC Worldwide contact page. I have not heard anything back yet though.

Charles Slane · 22-01-2002 10:10pm

I keep getting this e-mail reply when I try to e-mail BBC Worldwide on any of the contact adresses on their homepage (including bbcproducts@bbc.co.uk)

"Hi. This is the qmail-send program at relay06.indigo.ie.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<bbcworldwide@bbc.co.uk>:
132.185.132.16 does not like recipient.
Remote host said: 550 5.1.1 <bbcworldwide@bbc.co.uk>... User unknown
Giving up on 132.185.132.16."

I'm particularly fond of the line "132.185.132.16 does not like recipient", because I don't really like the recipient either, but I'd love to see his TV channels !!

Meanwhile the new Backchat is stating that Sky don't have any plans to carry ITV 1 and 2, and Channel 4 in Ireland.

Sounds disappointing, but all the more reason to e-mail Backchat at backchat@sky.com with the usual questions and an expression of our annoyance at being treated like second-class subscribers !!

To paraphrase Dire Straits -

I WANT MY BBC !!
(Knowledge for nothin' and the Choice for free)

DMC · 22-01-2002 10:19pm

Originally posted by Charles Slane
To paraphrase Dire Straits -

I WANT MY BBC !!
(Knowledge for nothin' and the Choice for free)

Dont want to buy no microwave ovens, that you can see on Q ooohh oooh Veeee Ceeeeeeeee!

(I'll lie down now....)

Genghis · 23-01-2002 1:41pm

I just sent an e-mail to the following at sky:

'martin.stewart@bskyb.com'; 'richard.freudenstein@bksyb.com'; 'ian.shepherd@bskyb.com'; 'geoff.walters@bskyb.com'; 'elisabeth.murdoch@bskyb.com'; 'greg.houfe@bskyb.com'; 'tim.allan@bskyb.com'; 'tony.ball@bskyb.com'

Will keep you posted ...

smoke.me.a.kipper · 23-01-2002 1:59pm

just mailed them all [again!].

Genghis · 23-01-2002 3:10pm

Jim Mellor, Tim Allen and Richard Freudenstein's e-mails are not working - anybody got ideas for new addresses?

Genghis · 23-01-2002 5:14pm

Just got an e-mail back from the PA to the MD of Sky (Mike Hughes).

As you can see, she is aware that I have contacted a number of managers (and since I bcc'd them, she didn't just look at the other addresses).

In the light of this, and due to the nature of her response (which is much more responsive than other responses I have received from Sky), I would prefer not to list her name and e-mail address until she has had the chance to organise a response... If there is no response, then I can post these and allow others to send her e-mails.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- -

I am in receipt of and acknowledge your email to various members of our Management Team.

Please could I ask you to bear with us whilst we investigate the matters you raise and we will respond formally as quickly as possible.

In the meantime, if there is anything I can help with, my number is 00 44 xxxx xxxxxxx. I would be very grateful if you would use my name as point of contact.

Kind Regards,

xxxx xxxxxx
Personal Assistant to Mike Hughes, Managing Director, Sky Services

23-01-2002 5:20pm

Hey Genghis,
Like drops of water on a big lump of granite , maybe this is starting to work

mm

ShaneOC · 23-01-2002 5:31pm

This is one of the most promising developments that we have seen.

Go on Genghis !!!

Hopefully they will have some good news for us.

The answer on backchat is really frustrating.

David C · 23-01-2002 8:05pm

Good Work!

First reply I've seen from sky recognising the "00 44" prefix for Ireland too!!

Looks promising.....

Campaign for BBC3, 4, News 24 and BBC Radio in Ireland.

Comments