Great big bunch of coke heads!!

Zombrex

Playboy wrote:

Why should these people have to say anything. The OP is obviosly a tantrum throwing control freak. Better off w/o her at the grad imo.

If that was the case everyone would be ignoring her. They aren't, susanna has posted that enough people feel the same that the graduation party could be disrupted. So instead of ignoring how these people are feeling, or belittling them and calling them names (very mature) just cause you don't agree that taking cocaine (a illegal and dangerous hard drug BTW) is wrong in a public setting, perhaps it would be more constructive if the people who are actually breaking the law were a bit more accommadating to the people who find this uncomfortable.

I mean whats the big deal, surely they can go a day or two without the need to take cocaine?

Zombrex

Playboy wrote:

I'm not a cocaine user but the point I was making is that when it comes to the issue of drugs there is huge hypocrisy.

As far as I can tell she isn't saying she doesn't want people to do it, just not around her and her friends, which considering the way most people act on coke is in my view perfectly reasonable. And I don't think she is calling for people to get rat faced on drink and start fighting and throwing up either :rolleyes:

Playboy

Wicknight wrote:

As far as I can tell she isn't saying she doesn't want people to do it, just not around her and her friends, which considering the way most people act on coke is in my view perfectly reasonable. And I don't think she is calling for people to get rat faced on drink and start fighting and throwing up either :rolleyes:

Considering how most people act on Coke? And how do most people act on Coke? How do most people act on drink? That is a ridiculous generalization about behaviour. And no I dont think it is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask. Why should these people compromise the enjoyment of their graduation because this person has issues. The point is and that was made earlier is that in all likelyhood the OP's problem isnt with coke or the people that use it but with herself.

Playboy

Wicknight wrote:

If that was the case everyone would be ignoring her. They aren't, susanna has posted that enough people feel the same that the graduation party could be disrupted. So instead of ignoring how these people are feeling, or belittling them and calling them names (very mature) just cause you don't agree that taking cocaine (a illegal and dangerous hard drug BTW) is wrong in a public setting, perhaps it would be more constructive if the people who are actually breaking the law were a bit more accommadating to the people who find this uncomfortable.

I mean whats the big deal, surely they can go a day or two without the need to take cocaine?

Suzanna also posted in reference to the OP's character ... Try reading it again. By the way I am well aware of what Coke is. There is no need to be typing in bold.

AARRRGH

Playboy wrote:

Why should these people have to say anything. The OP is obviosly a tantrum throwing control freak. Better off w/o her at the grad imo.

Agree 100%.

Dave!

^
Me too

audge

Jeff_Lebowski wrote:

Another point - the OP stated that people using cocaine should get educated and realise they are snorting cement and rat poison up their nose. I'm sorry but rat poison being mixed in with drugs is an urban legend. Dealers tend not to put it in cause it kills people.

If this is the sort of facts you come out with when lecturing people about drug use then I'd say people just laugh at you.

While I agree that coke is bad and a problem I think perhaps that you need a bit of education. You can't lecture anybody on a topic if your facts are erroneous.

I never claimed to have all the facts, i I even admitted to needing some education on the topic myself, but what I do know, and can state as fact is that coke is bad for you, and can kill!

audge

drunkenfool wrote:

go back to bed audge, stop whining. I dont like it when people get drunk and start fights be abusive, get fat, puke everywhere, beat their wives, rape women, commit public order offences. people on drugs (in most cases) are alot more in control of themselves then with alcohol.

Some one call mensa, we have ourselves a genius! Drug users are actually calm, pleasant, polite and fun to be around... who knew?

audge

Ok, this is my final post on the topic. (although no doubt I will be provoked into further comments )I agree with some of you in that I am judgemental, Perhaps it is none of my business and I shouldn't preach! Fair enough, you point has been made, taken on board and I do agree that as these people are no friends of mine it is none of my business and I should keep my nose out.

However, the use of drugs, and coke in particular, I am still strongly against. Despite the liberal warbblings of some of the posters about how its a persons own choice and we are all free to do what we wish. This freedom to do what we wish does not lessen the harmfulness of the substance, that the users, and myself, and not truly educated about.

My stance on drugs remains the same, I do not, and will not, agree with usage, at any level, recreational or otherwise, as I believe that dependency is eventually inevitable.

sobriquet

My stance on drugs remains the same, I do not, and will not, agree with usage, at any level, recreational or otherwise, as I believe that dependency is eventually inevitable.

I hate weighing in a such a long thread, but this makes any other comments of yours hard to take seriously. Dependency is inevitable? I'd genuinely like to see your evidence to back this up. For myself, and people I know who use drugs recreationally, I'd like to know what kind of risk we're apparently at.

Further, you said, "recreational or otherwise" - so you rule out the use of (for example) cannabis in relieving the pain of MS or cancer sufferers, under medical supervision?

Personally, I believe that people have different capacities for enjoying drugs, as with alcohol, and making such blanket statements doesn't help in the slightest. I know people who can't take certain hard drugs (myself for example, I have a minor heart condition so I won't risk it), and some who can practically live off the stuff, if they so choose. Incidentally, the only thing that's caused serious trouble with dependency among people I know is alcohol.

Bonus on topic link: Study Finds No Psychological or Cognitive Deficits among Native Americans Who Use Peyote Regularly in Religious Settings - released last friday.

audge

"Crack cocaine is perhaps the deadliest of all drugs, it can be addictive from the very first time it is used, can also prove fatal in its first use and can make the user "violently berserk”. "
http://www.stopdrugaddiction.com/news-left.htm?aid=63

Effects
Cocaine is a powerful stimulant, and users feel more alert and energetic, and also feel less hungry or thirsty. These effects can last for up to 20 minutes after each use. Smoking 'crack' cocaine gives a shorter but more intense high.

Side-Effects
Because of its powerful effects, cocaine users are often left craving for more. Large doses can lead to exhaustion, anxiety and depression, and sometimes users may become aggressive.

Risks
Snorting cocaine can cause permanent damage to the inside of the nose. Cocaine use can damage the heart and lungs, and high doses can cause death from heart attacks or blood clots. The depression that follows the 'high' can be severe, and can lead to suicide attempts. With long-term or binge use, the excitement caused by cocaine can turn to restlessness, sleep loss and weight loss. Some people can develop a paranoid psychosis where they may be violent. The strong cravings for cocaine, especially 'crack', can lead to an urge to take the drug all the time, and the person can lose control of their drug use.

http://www.addictionireland.ie/faq/article.asp?FID=45&T=F

Cocaine addiction is one of society's greatest problems today. Individuals addicted to cocaine will do almost anything to get the drug. It has penetrated all levels of our society infecting the rich, poor, and everyone in between. Family members connected to individuals with a cocaine addiction live in chaos and confusion because they do not understand the underlying mechanics of cocaine addiction
http://www.addictionca.com/FAQ-cocaine.htm

What is Cocaine addiction?

A) Cocaine addiction can occur very quickly and can be very difficult to break. Animal studies have shown that animals will work very hard (press a bar over 10,000 times) for a single injection of cocaine, choose cocaine over food and water, and take cocaine even when this behavior is punished. Animals must have their access to cocaine limited in order to prevent taking toxic or even lethal doses.

Researchers have found that cocaine stimulates the brain's reward system inducing an even greater feeling of pleasure than natural functions. In turn, its influence on the reward circuit can lead a user to bypass survival activities and repeat drug use. Chronic cocaine use can lead to a cocaine addiction and in some cases damage the brain and other organs. An addict will continue to use cocaine even when faced with adverse consequences. Dependency can develop in less than 2 weeks. Some research indicates that a psychological dependency may develop after a single dose of high-potency cocaine. As the person develops a tolerance to cocaine, higher and higher doses are needed to produce the same level of euphoria.

---

Q) How does Cocaine effect the brain?

A) Through the use of sophisticated technology, scientists can actually see the dynamic changes that occur in the brain as an individual takes cocaine. They can observe the different brain changes that occur as a person experiences the "rush," the "high," and finally the craving of cocaine. They can also identify parts of the brain that become active when a cocaine addict sees or hears environmental stimuli that trigger the craving for cocaine.


Researchers know that certain kinds of experiences, such as those involved in learning, can physically change brain structure and affect behavior. Now, new research in rats shows that exposure to stimulant drugs such as cocaine can impair the ability of specific brain cells to change as a consequence of experience.

“The ability of experiences to alter brain structure is thought to be one of the primary mechanisms by which the past can influence behavior and cognition,” says NIDA Director Dr. Nora D. Volkow. “However, when these alterations in brain structure are produced by drugs of abuse, they may lead to the development of compulsive patterns of drug-seeking behaviors that are the hallmark of addiction.”

The researchers conducted a series of experiments to examine how drugs of abuse and experience might interact to produce changes in brain structure. To accomplish this, they administered amphetamine, cocaine, or saline repeatedly for 20 days to individually housed rats. This pattern of drug administration was previously shown by these investigators to produce both behavioral changes in response to the drugs and structural changes in several brain regions. However, in the current study, the researchers went one step further. After the 20-day drug exposure, the rats were housed in a new environment for 3 to 3.5 months. Half of the drug- and saline-injected animals were placed in standard laboratory cages; the other animals in each group were housed in a complex environment. The environment contained a variety of stimuli: multiple levels with ramps, bridges, a climbing chain, tunnels, and toys that were rearranged once a week to encourage continued exploration of the environment. At the end of 3 or 3.5 months, the rats’ brains were analyzed for changes in dendritic branching and spine density. Specifically, the researchers examined the spiny neurons in the nucleus accumbens and the pyramidal cells in the parietal cortex. These areas were shown in previous studies to be altered by experience and/or drugs of abuse. The nucleus accumbens is involved in motivation and reward, and the parietal cortex is important for sensory-motor function.

Remarkably, animals that had been given amphetamine and then placed in the complex environment did not show the same environmental-induced structural changes in the nucleus acccumbens and parietal cortex as did saline-treated animals in the complex environment. The results for those animals treated with cocaine were similar, in that prior treatment with cocaine blocked the environment-induced changes in the medium spiny neurons of the nucleus accumbens (the only region examined).


“The findings from this study indicate that at least some of the cognitive and behavioral advantages that accrue with experience may be diminished by prior exposure to psychostimulant drugs,” says Dr. Kolb. “This impairment of the ability of specific brain circuits to change in response to experiences may help explain some of the behavioral and cognitive deficits seen in people who are addicted to drugs. More research is warranted to determine whether certain experiences, such as exposure to complex or rewarding environments, can alter the ability of drugs to induce structural changes in the brain. If exposure to psychostimulant drugs can alter the effects of subsequent experience, experience may be able to influence the later effects of drugs. It may even be possible for certain experiences to counteract the effects of psychostimulant drugs.”

http://www.addictionca.com/FAQ-cocaine.htm

Call to address cocaine addiction

Cocaine addiction is a growing problem in Scotland, experts say
Tougher measures are needed to combat the growing problem of cocaine addiction, the Scottish Executive has been warned.
A Scottish Drugs Forum conference has heard that cocaine use has doubled in four years and that users are taking the drug and heroin at the same time.

Some experts believe there should be more centres offering specialist help.

The executive has said it is up to individual services to decide how to tackle local problems.

Taking cocaine and heroin at the same time, which is known as "snowballing", creates a need for more fixes of the drugs.

Recreational drug

Cocaine is a stimulant, negating the calming effect of heroin, causing users to need greater amounts.

The drug was used by about 8% of addicts in Scotland in 2004, compared to 4% in 2000.

That figure may be higher as some drug experts in Edinburgh say it is running just behind ecstasy as a recreational drug.

Cocaine users obviously are potentially paranoid, they're very concerned about issues of confidentiality and actually want an immediate service


The conference has been hearing concerns that drug services are mainly geared towards heroin users, substituting it with methadone, but there is no alternative to cocaine.

The Scottish Drugs Forum, funded by the executive, said a rethink was due on the services offered to addicts.

David Liddell said: "Potentially, as we've seen in other European countries, we start to see a more substantial shift in that direction, so that the primary drug is no longer heroin but actually becomes cocaine.

"Cocaine users obviously are potentially paranoid, they're very concerned about issues of confidentiality and actually want an immediate service.

"So they want to go to a service and get an immediate response and that's quite different from the average opiate user."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4395771.stm

Zombrex

Playboy wrote:

Considering how most people act on Coke? And how do most people act on Coke?

Like hyper idiots ... BTW coke mixed with alochol greatly increases aggression, so where people got the idea that coke was a nice mello drug like hash I have no idea.

Playboy wrote:

That is a ridiculous generalization about behaviour.

No it isn't, if I asked you to explain how most people acted when drunk it would be pretty easy for you to give a list of noticable behaviours, such as sluring of speach, lack of balance, aggressiveness etc

Playboy wrote:

And no I dont think it is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask. Why should these people compromise the enjoyment of their graduation because this person has issues.

Sure thats like saying why shouldn't I be allowed masterbate in a public cinema? No problem in the privacy of ones home, but in public ... And thats before you get on to the fact that it is illegal

Playboy wrote:

The point is and that was made earlier is that in all likelyhood the OP's problem isnt with coke or the people that use it but with herself.

And the other people in the class who agree with her?.. and society? ... and the law? ... everyone has a problem but the people actually taking coke right? :rolleyes:

the_syco

audge wrote:

My stance on drugs remains the same, I do not, and will not, agree with usage, at any level, recreational or otherwise, as I believe that dependency is eventually inevitable.

Drugs include the legal type, such as alcohol, cigerattes, etc.

=-=

Also, as the entire class seem to be coke heads, what course where you doing?

sobriquet

Thanks for the links, Audge.

Could you first clarify something for me: In what I quoted, you said 'drugs', but all the links refer to coke. Which are we taking about?

However, I can't see anything in what you pasted to suggest specifically that "dependency is inevitable." It's destructive, I don't dispute that, but this isn't the same as saying anyone who uses it at all will become an addict.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on my question regarding medical use of drugs (more accurately narcotics, I suppose), by the way.

dahooligan

the_syco wrote:

Drugs include the legal type, such as alcohol, cigerattes, etc.

See this is where it gets subjective, yes cigarettes and alcohol are addictive but at the moment they are legal and are somewhat part of 'normal' society. I personally hate cigarettes but I am prone to an occasional intake of pints - thats my issue though. Trying to justify coke (or any other drug use) on the back of legal drugs is just pants. That argument will go round and round.

Then you get people coming in with the whole "we break the law all the time cos we speed on the motor way and litter and sometimes don't pay full fare on the Luas".. the law isn't open to debate though. Its illegal to take banned substances, and I'm happy that its illegal and I can see a definite reason for it being illegal.

The medical use line of thinking is for a different day.

sobriquet

dahooligan wrote:

The medical use line of thinking is for a different day.

That's fair enough, I just brought it up as it becomes an issue with respect to Audges' categorical statement on drugs being bad.

I think it's relevant, but if it derails the thread, then ignore.

Zombrex

sobriquet wrote:

That's fair enough, I just brought it up as it becomes an issue with respect to Audges' categorical statement on drugs being bad.

I think it's relevant, but if it derails the thread, then ignore.

Well i think it is safe to assume she was talking about illegal drugs, or drugs used in an illegal way. There are lots of drugs such as pain killers than can be abused in a recreational fashion.

audge

Susanna, you posted me a private message on the 4th of November regarding my "issue", we spoke on the 5th, resolved the matter and put it behind us, so I am curious to know why you then felt the need to post a public message, repeating issues that I believed we had already resolved?
I have addressed here, some of the issues that you presented in the public forum, and I would also like to point out that I sent an apology email to everyone in my mailing list for attempting to organise an alternative celebration location, in which I agreed, publicly, that it be for the best that the group stick together.

Basically, I am a little confused as to why your post made the public forum, seeing as how you stated in your private message that you would prefer to leep our discussion private?

Anyhow, none of this matters now, I have stated time and time again that I will continue in my dislike and distaste of the use of narcotics, but I will not continue to preach as I agree it is none of my business, and furthermore, not in my interest to worry about peopel I have never liked or considered friends.

I would ask that this be the last time that we converse on the matter, as I, and I am sure you too, are well and truly sick of it.

Audrey


"You used to look at people getting pissed on nights out and think they were off there heads when they were simply drunk, nothing more and nothing less." susanna


I have never, in my life, confused a drunk person for someone on drugs, the reaction to drink is very different to the reaction from drugs and I have never had a problem distinguishing the two.



"those who might will do it very discretely" susanna

If it where done so discreetly, how would I even be aware of it?


"Some of us are actually really upset/ pissed off by the way you're carrying on, because we've done nothing to deserve this kind of treatment" susanna

Who are we talking about it? and what treatment is it that is upsetting these people?


"we're not a filthy bunch of drug addicts!" susanna


You are absolutely right, I never referred to you as a filthy drug addict, and I sincerly hope that my class mates are not filthy drug addicts either, for their own sake.

susanna

Audrey

I posted that message before I spoke to you on the phone. I texted you to tell you to read what I said on here! I posted it because I felt it was relevent to the discussion. Anyway, if I was a bit harsh at first, before I spoke to you, I'm sorry but my basic opinion is still the same.

I'm happy to forget all this, as I was on Saturday, but you're the one who brought it up again.

audge

Now, with regard to narcotics being used for medicinal purposes, I was of course referring to the use of illegal narcotics in my posts, as was pointed out by several other posters.
However, as narrow minded as everyone seems to believe I am, I am open to educating myself on the use of narcotics for medicinal purposes, and only then could I really give you my informed opinion on the matter.

This post was moved from PI forum, as it transformed from a thread on my personal issue with the use of narcotics, into a moral debate on the rights and wrongs of illegal use of narcotics, this however, was not my intention.

I freely admit that I may be a little naive on the subject matter, and I certainly need to better educate myself. Perhaps it is for this reason that my my debating skills may not meet the standards of the regular humanities poster. (again my thread was originally started in the hope of resolving a personal issue, and in doing so, I expected to obtain advice and opinions, and not to have the enlightening factual debate that I received)

My personal issue was never to attempt to change my moral standing on the issue of illegal use of narcotics, I am quite comfortable and confident in my stance.

In addressing my personal issue, (the way I was reacting to people using such substances) I have agreed with the majority of the posters here that what these people do is none of my business, and I have no right to lecture them, or force my opinion on them, so please, I really do not this advice reworded and re posted every 5 minutes.

I have taken this point on board, and it has already been applied in my dealings with use of narcotics.

audge

susanna wrote:

Audrey

I posted that message before I spoke to you on the phone. I texted you to tell you to read what I said on here! I posted it because I felt it was relevent to the discussion. Anyway, if I was a bit harsh at first, before I spoke to you, I'm sorry but my basic opinion is still the same.

I'm happy to forget all this, as I was on Saturday, but you're the one who brought it up again.

I brought it up again because it was the first time I had the pleasure of viewing your post.
Ok, lets shake hands and seriously drop this, as I have already sworn not to preach or lecture anyone from now on!

sobriquet

audge wrote:

Now, with regard to narcotics being used for medicinal purposes, I was of course referring to the use of illegal narcotics in my posts, as was pointed out by several other posters.
However, as narrow minded as everyone seems to believe I am, I am open to educating myself on the use of narcotics for medicinal purposes, and only then could I really give you my informed opinion on the matter.
[...]
I freely admit that I may be a little naive on the subject matter, and I certainly need to better educate myself. [...]

As was I, I thought it was understood that the use of the word 'drugs' in this thread referred solely to narcotics - of course drugs are used in medicine in a stricter sense of the word.

With regard to the education issue, if I may offer an opinion, I think that part of the problem is the effects as described in your previous quotes don't tally with experience, my experience at least. I don't do hard drugs, as it could potentially be very dangerous for me, but I know very many people who do all sorts of drugs, many without anything like the kind of problems described.

I think much anti-drugs material does itself a disservice by making it seem that all effects of narcotics are negative. Then, when someone tries it and has a good time, this creates the impression that the anti-drugs people are being outrightly dishonest, and then can't really be trusted to impart correct information. It breeds a disregard for anti-drugs information and I think the rift between the two sides (both in this thread and in a wider sense) is formented there. The same information gives those without personal experience of the drugs a sense that all effects are negative, and the debate becomes polarised.

Anyway though, I agree with that coke is a very ugly drug - the aggressiveness it brings on just isn't pleasant to be around, especially combined with drink and i've also discouraged friends from doing it.

AARRRGH

Audge, you sound like a very young person who is trying to find her own opinions about the world.

Just tone yourself down a bit. Your extremeness is making you sound like a bit of a nutter!!!

audge

dublindude wrote:

you sound like a bit of a nutter!!!

Ha, thats not the first time someone has said that to me, and I very much doubt it will be the last time!

Perhaps I am coming off a bit exteme, but I don't see how being anti drugs could ever be described as a bad thing?

AARRRGH

You are not just anti-drugs, you are anti5000PRO-drugs!

I personally am "bored" of drugs, so would consider myself reasonably anti-drugs, but I still think they should be legalised...

Dave!

audge wrote:

My personal issue was never to attempt to change my moral standing on the issue of illegal use of narcotics, I am quite comfortable and confident in my stance.

...which you admitted about a hundred times is based on ignorance and naivity...

dublindude wrote:

Audge, you sound like a very young person who is trying to find her own opinions about the world.

Just tone yourself down a bit. Your extremeness is making you sound like a bit of a nutter!!!

Yes, please do tone it down. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about, and are basing your opinion on "drugs" (except of course for alcohol, which you indulge in occassionally, or nicotine, which you probably see no problem with) on something you heard in Church or something your parents told you. Read a f*cking book about the subject, get some perspective (ie. "it's illegal" ≠ "it's evil"), and let other people live their lives without your input, pleasant as it may be.

Tenner bets you end up on coke yourself, lol...

Good day madam.

I think Audge's issues have been resolved, she's promised to stop whining and to stop trying to ruin everyone's night, so just thinking, this should probably be closed so that more people don't come in and start pointing out inconsistancies and idiocies in her posts, and have her freak out.

Or else we could continue discussing the subject from a humanitarian perspective.

EDIT:

audge wrote:

Ha, thats not the first time someone has said that to me, and I very much doubt it will be the last time!

Perhaps I am coming off a bit exteme, but I don't see how being anti drugs could ever be described as a bad thing?

Not using "drugs" (please specify... cocaine? heroin? alcohol? nicotine? marijuana? caffeine? paracetamol?) is one thing, but trying to stop other grown adults, who are conscience of the fact that the drug is illegal and bad for them (thank you very much), from enjoying themselves is another thing.

AARRRGH

LOL, it's Monday. Let's start the week by being nice to each other...

audge

DaveMcG wrote:

...which you admitted about a hundred times is based on ignorance and naivity...



Yes, please do tone it down. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about, and are basing your opinion on "drugs" (except of course for alcohol, which you indulge in occassionally, or nicotine, which you probably see no problem with) on something you heard in Church or something your parents told you. Read a f*cking book about the subject, get some perspective (ie. "it's illegal" ≠ "it's evil"), and let other people live their lives without your input, pleasant as it may be.

Tenner bets you end up on coke yourself, lol...

Good day madam.

I think Audge's issues have been resolved, she's promised to stop whining and to stop trying to ruin everyone's night, so just thinking, this should probably be closed so that more people don't come in and start pointing out inconsistancies and idiocies in her posts, and have her freak out.

Or else we could continue discussing the subject from a humanitarian perspective.

EDIT:



Not using "drugs" (please specify... cocaine? heroin? alcohol? nicotine? marijuana? caffeine? paracetamol?) is one thing, but trying to stop other grown adults, who are conscience of the fact that the drug is illegal and bad for them (thank you very much), from enjoying themselves is another thing.

Bit harsh and uncalled for!

Dave!

dublindude wrote:

LOL, it's Monday. Let's start the week by being nice to each other...

For you (both)

:v:

EDIT:

audge wrote:

Bit harsh and uncalled for!

Right on.

Sorry, your post just irritated me to no end. Disregard what I said.

audge

Thank you

I just think a difference of opinion is ok, but personal insults are not really the answer.
I have admitted a thousand times to needing more info on the subject, but I really don't think this request for information should be reason to brand me stupid, I am far from it, as is almost everyone who uses boards. I find that generally, people with opinions, who are capable of handling some level of debate, are actually quite intelligent.

But I accept your apology, and the lovely flowers, thank you!!!