Great big bunch of coke heads!!

AARRRGH

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

sorry I just dont believe rat poison is put into coke,why would it be? there is absoloutely no reason to put it in other than to kill its users and why would a drug dealer want to kill his/her customers? makes no sense.

I know. It makes you wonder about some of the peoples focus here.

lazydaisy

Its a cheap substitute for speed which is also used to cut coke. I believe the formal name for rat poison is strychnnne. Its also an ingredient in LSD and heroin.

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/strychnine/basics/pdf/facts.pdf#search='strychnine'

growler

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

sorry I just dont believe rat poison is put into coke,why would it be? there is absoloutely no reason to put it in other than to kill its users and why would a drug dealer want to kill his/her customers? makes no sense.

the rationale is that (a) rat poison is readily available (b) not illegal to possess in itself (c) comes as a powder that can be mixed with pure cocaine and (d) its use serves to prove the point that all drug dealers are self serving scum.

I don't disbelieve that poison is found in coke , I do think that the number of times is has been actually found is widely disproportionate to the amount of times this "fact" is trotted out by the anti-drug lobby as a reason why coke is bad for you, it has nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of cocaine use and is tangental to the health issues involved in cocaine use.

Zombrex

Playboy wrote:

What % of cocaine tested had the substances mentioned?

Rat poison or in general?

Rat poison in cocaine is very rare, but it has happend.

Mixed with something in general it was 5% of cocaine sampled was mixed and of that five percent 29% was lidocaine.

Playboy wrote:

I would think it is a tiny fraction of the amount of cocaine used or else the newspapers would full of stories relating to death due to rat poision in cocaine.

They are ... heard of the singer Brenda Fassie, she died last year cause the crack she was smoking was mixed with rat poision.

Playboy wrote:

And btw you are probably a bit naive believing US Office of National Drugs Control Policy.

Yeah, I should believe you guys, and DublinDudes drug dealing mates, instead :rolleyes:

Playboy wrote:

Some drug dealers are nice people .. other are not .. just like any business in life .. again dont be too quick to believe the stereotypes and propoganda.

And some drug dealers kill people, routinely ...

Playboy wrote:

Alcohol is also probably just as harmful as cocaine.

And .. you want to show me where I posted that abusing alcohol was ok?

There is a "safe" level of alcohol that can be processed by the human body. Granted most people go way over that level, and when they do they are doing harm, in some cases serious harm to their bodies. There is no safe level of cocaine use. Every time you use it it is doing harm to your body.

Can anyone show me a person who has used cocaine consistently for, say 20 years, who hasn't been f**ked up by it? If you look at most celebraties or people in public who have used coke for most of their lives they are either dead or very messed up. I have yet to see, meet or hear about someone who has used cocaine for long periods of time and is perfectly fine.

Zombrex

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

there is absoloutely no reason to put it in

Actually there is one reason, and only one reason, and it is the same reason coke is mixed with any cheap white powder - To make money

Zombrex

growler wrote:

I don't disbelieve that poison is found in coke , I do think that the number of times is has been actually found is widely disproportionate to the amount of times this "fact" is trotted out by the anti-drug lobby as a reason why coke is bad for you, it has nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of cocaine use and is tangental to the health issues involved in cocaine use.

True ... There are a lot of other things people should be worrying about there cocaine being mixed with before they start worrying about rat poison.

TBH I am more interested in why drug users refuse to believe that this ever happened ... I mean look at the posts here, post after post of people saying "That never happened" or posting "lies all lies" ... why? What are people so scared of?

SpAcEd OuT

thats stupid,drug dealers would not go out of their way to mix cocaine with rat poison when theres more readily availiable white powders,pure creatine seems to be a popular one,once again dealers do not want to kill their customers if their customer lives to buy more coke they make more money its as simple as that

Zombrex

Oh incase anyone is wondering "why rat posion?", it isn't cause the drug dealers are trying to kill you, its cause it is cheap and hard to differentiate between the poision and the coke.

Dealers pick things to mix that look like coke, not just rat poision, but a whole load of other cheaply available items. It has very little to do with the items themselves.

Gordon

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

thats stupid,drug dealers would not go out of their way to mix cocaine with rat poison when theres more readily availiable white powders,pure creatine seems to be a popular one,once again dealers do not want to kill their customers if their customer lives to buy more coke they make more money its as simple as that

But it happened right?

chump

Jeff_Lebowski wrote:

Also - the rolleyes icon at the end of an argument doesn't make you seem juvenile at all, so I'd keep that up. It's a shame they don't allow people to hold big pictures of those up during debates cause it really gets the person's point across.

I almost fell off my seat laughing at that one. Cheers...

About the rat poisin thing, I simply don't buy it either Wicknight. Now I've no doubt at some stage somewhere in the world rat poison was mixed with cocaine, but that doesn't make it a headline point in this argument.

Rat Poison In School Breakfast
The Sun, March 2, 2001
Shanghai (China) - A hundred primary school children in the city of Bole, Xinjiang, were taken ill after eating a breakfast spiked with rat poison. The poison was mixed with sugar to mask the taste and used to season a soup. There was no report to say how the sickened children were faring.

http://www.prn2.usm.my/mainsite/headline/poison/mac2001.html

I didn't have to do much google searching to find that.

The point is, whatever the reasons for or against the use of cocaine, I honestly wouldn't rate possible rat-poison as one of them.

It simply doesn't make sense for the people who cut the drugs...
& they hardly have a such a hard time finding glucose powder or quinine that they say, ah fekkit we'll use the rat poison today

Zombrex

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

thats stupid,drug dealers would not go out of their way to mix cocaine with rat poison when theres more readily availiable white powders,pure creatine seems to be a popular one,once again dealers do not want to kill their customers if their customer lives to buy more coke they make more money its as simple as that

And that is probably why rat poison mixed with coke is very rare ...

I would point out, they don't go out of their way, they pick what they have easy access to. The cases where rat poision were used the dealers probably had easy access to some rat poision.

Secondly, not all "white powder" mixes with coke so it cannot be told apart.

Thirdly, drug dealers don't care if you die after they have sold you their stuff .. there will always be more customers. They make more money by selling mixed cocaine, not by you coming back to them after being sold pure coke.

SpAcEd OuT

Gordon wrote:

But it happened right?

yes it has happened a handful of times throughout the world.

doesnt mean it happens regularly it has never even happened in Ireland so to say a statement as general as Rat Poison is put into coke is quite silly

Zombrex

chump wrote:

but that doesn't make it a headline point in this argument.

I have always said it is very rare

I have also always said their are far more common but still dangerous stuff mixed with cocaine than rat poison. But people keep fixating on that point and claiming it isn't true.

Why, I don't know. I don't really understand why people have to try and convince themselves it never happened. My guess is because they don't like to thinking about it while sniffing a line of coke.

Zombrex

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

doesnt mean it happens regularly it has never even happened in Ireland so to say a statement as general as Rat Poison is put into coke is quite ludacris

Well I guess everyone can go back to happily, and safely, snorting coke ... oh wait ... all that other stuff they do mix coke with ...

Laguna

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

you do not get any hallucinations whatsoever from cocaine.
MDMA in E-X-T-R-E-M-E doses may cause minor hallucinations such as colours brighter and maybe facial distortions but nothing described there.

Either your mate is an idiot attention seeker or you are lying.

Im going with the latter... www.erowid.org

if your going to join this debate educate yourself first please.

I'm no liar, but your obviously an expert on the matter. As you took my character and stated I was a liar, I'll deem your knowledge of the effects of drugs to mean that your an addict yourself (just following your attempt at logic).

SpAcEd OuT

Wicknight wrote:

.

Thirdly, drug dealers don't care if you die after they have sold you their stuff .. there will always be more customers. They make more money by selling mixed cocaine, not by you coming back to them after being sold pure coke.

Im sorry but if they mixed rat poison into their coke they wont have any customers to sell to simple as!

Thats like being a shop owner and the minute the purchase is completed chasing out every customer with a big knive, sooner or later no one will come to your shop

lazydaisy

Actually Wicknight, Wikipedia says its an urban myth.

Does Ireland get its coke from the same places the US does?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strychnine

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/drugfact/pulsechk/midyear2000/crackandpowder.html

SpAcEd OuT

Ireland gets its coke from spain who in turn get it from South America judging by the amount of cocaine seizures in Spain that are destined for Ireland

Laguna

Dealers/Pushers mix in other substances into coke (such as rat poison etc.) to make the **** go further, it's a simple fact, therefore making more money for them, do you think he's doing the dealing as a service for the local community?. There's nothing benign about a drug dealer, he's no lover of people and their wellbeing, he couldn't give a **** if you died from taking his merchandise because it was snowballed with other chemicals, there's plenty more @rseholes to take your place. Some people on here view drug dealers/pushers in a benevolent light, as if there's a moral code they adhere to.

SpAcEd OuT

word gets around people tell others not to buy off the dealer and the dealer loses business,dealers tend to sell in their own area so word can get around very easily. its not like dealers just hang around down dark alleys selling drugs to random people like portrayed in movies.
you usually know the dealer to begin with.

AARRRGH

Can we stop focussing on this stupid rat poison argument and get back on topic?

OP, stop sticking your nose into other peoples business. It's immature and nosy.

WhiteWashMan

i have no idea either why people keep going on about the evils of drink and comparing it with class A narcotics.

drink is legal. narcotics are not.

whats the point in comparing them. is it supposed to make everyone think that drugs should be decriminalized?

although, i did notice that playboy has stopped quoting me now that he has figured out that he was arguing with himself.

susanna

Getting back to this particular situation... I'm a friend of audge's, I was in her class and I'm just not seeing what she's seeing.

In a class of twenty people, there were about two or three that took cocaine, and they were by no means dependent on it, they used it recreationally. Whether thats right or wrong is another matter, but the fact is that audge has greatly exaggerated the situation (not deliberately I'm sure, but audge you can be extremely judgemental and when you get an idea into your head about someone it sticks). You used to look at people getting pissed on nights out and think they were off there heads when they were simply drunk, nothing more and nothing less. And thats not something you can get worked up about seeing as you drink yourself.

The fact is, on grad night the majority of us won't be going near any cocaine, and those who might will do it very discretely. Some of us are actually really upset/ pissed off by the way you're carrying on, because we've done nothing to deserve this kind of treatment. We just want to get everyone back together and celebrate our graduation, and now it just seems like you're trying to ruin the whole thing. Boycotting the grad yourself is one thing (and I would hate for you to do that) but trying to organise alternative venues and splitting the group up is really not on, especially as you're trying to get away from a 'problem' that doesn't actually exist (i.e. we're not a filthy bunch of drug addicts!)

I really hope you can just put this all to one side and have a great grad night with all the people you were friends with in college. You'll enjoy it if you just relax, but at the moment you're working yourself up in a state over nothing. I completely understand your anti-coke stance, I'm against it myself, but you can't pin this problem to our class

AARRRGH

Good post Susanna. I had a feeling she was overreacting somewhat...!

Ag marbh

susanna wrote:

Getting back to this particular situation... I'm a friend of audge's, I was in her class and I'm just not seeing what she's seeing.

In a class of twenty people, there were about two or three that took cocaine, and they were by no means dependent on it, they used it recreationally. Whether thats right or wrong is another matter, but the fact is that audge has greatly exaggerated the situation (not deliberately I'm sure, but audge you can be extremely judgemental and when you get an idea into your head about someone it sticks). You used to look at people getting pissed on nights out and think they were off there heads when they were simply drunk, nothing more and nothing less. And thats not something you can get worked up about seeing as you drink yourself.

The fact is, on grad night the majority of us won't be going near any cocaine, and those who might will do it very discretely. Some of us are actually really upset/ pissed off by the way you're carrying on, because we've done nothing to deserve this kind of treatment. We just want to get everyone back together and celebrate our graduation, and now it just seems like you're trying to ruin the whole thing. Boycotting the grad yourself is one thing (and I would hate for you to do that) but trying to organise alternative venues and splitting the group up is really not on, especially as you're trying to get away from a 'problem' that doesn't actually exist (i.e. we're not a filthy bunch of drug addicts!)

I really hope you can just put this all to one side and have a great grad night with all the people you were friends with in college. You'll enjoy it if you just relax, but at the moment you're working yourself up in a state over nothing. I completely understand your anti-coke stance, I'm against it myself, but you can't pin this problem to our class

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Dave!

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

sorry I just dont believe rat poison is put into coke,why would it be? there is absoloutely no reason to put it in other than to kill its users and why would a drug dealer want to kill his/her customers? makes no sense.

I'd say it's probably a case of an ingredient that is found in rat poison is also found in cocaine. Probably water or something.

The dealers hardly go out, buy a tub of rat poison, and kill off all their customers with it :rolleyes:

They did the same with cigarettes: "Hydrogen Cyanide: – rat poison"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_cyanide

"Fruits that have a pit, such as cherries or apricots, often contain small quantities of hydrogen cyanide in the pit. Bitter almonds, from which almond oil and flavoring is made, also contain hydrogen cyanide. Some millipedes release hydrogen cyanide as a defense mechanism."

hmmm, you don't often hear that side of the story...

EDIT:

WhiteWashMan, I think you need to get off the whole "it's illegal therefore it's different and it's wrong, it's legal therefore it's just and right" thing; laws aren't always correct. They're just supposed to represent the morals and ethics of the day, but they're made years ago and don't necessarily get changed. Point in hand, civil rights for black people in America. Now I don't think that coke should be legal or anything like that, but you're just talking sh*te.

WhiteWashMan

i tihkn the main point with the rat poison issue was that cocaine is often padded out with other substances.
i have heard tales of rat poison in heroin alright, but i think in a more general view, things like talc, crushed horse tranquillisers, etc etc etc have been used to pad out drugs.

the simple fact is, that if you go one or two levels off the streets, there are people that do this. you can argue all you want about drug dealers not wanting to kill off their customers, personally i dont know any, so i couldnt comment, but one level removed, people dont care who takes it, they sell it in bulk.

as for the post from susanna, i think she has pretty much echoed what most people have said (the whole morality and rat poison debates aside).

although why ag marbh finds so funny, i have no idea since the best argument i found from him is drugs are cool coz i use them....
its not as if susanna's post vindicates him (its a big word dear i know, but look it up)

Zombrex

DaveMcG wrote:

I'd say it's probably a case of an ingredient that is found in rat poison is also found in cocaine. Probably water or something.

The ingredent found in rat poison that has (occassionally, I stress) been found in coke (along with crack, heorin and E) is Strychnine. It is pretty hard to die from taking water (though not impossible, before someone jumps down my throat)

But, as I have repeatable said, it isn't strychnine you have to worry your coke is being mixed with, their are a lot more common substances that can be dangerous to you.

If some people really, really, believe their local drug dealer would never give them something potentially harmful just to make a bit of money, well sorry but that is just stupid on a Darwin Awards level (as in so stupid it would actually be funny if they died, horribly)

susanna wrote:

In a class of twenty people, there were about two or three that took cocaine, and they were by no means dependent on it, they used it recreationally.

If there is enough of the class to follow the OP to an alternative venue, then there is enough of the class who feel strongly about some of their class mades taking strong (illegal) drugs at their graduation party.

You sound like you know these people who take the drugs. Why not just ask these people to say they won't be doing coke that night? Problem solved.

Playboy

WhiteWashMan wrote:

i have no idea either why people keep going on about the evils of drink and comparing it with class A narcotics.

drink is legal. narcotics are not.

whats the point in comparing them. is it supposed to make everyone think that drugs should be decriminalized?

although, i did notice that playboy has stopped quoting me now that he has figured out that he was arguing with himself.

Actually I was away for the weekend

I'm not a cocaine user but the point I was making is that when it comes to the issue of drugs there is huge hypocrisy. Someone who goes out like the OP and gets drunk and then feels like she can lecture other people on what they put into their body is quite ridiculous. At the end of the day it is no ones business but your own what you do with your body. People who are quick to judge and lecture people because the have a substance dependency are usually the ones who are the biggest hypocrits.

Playboy

Wicknight wrote:

You sound like you know these people who take the drugs. Why not just ask these people to say they won't be doing coke that night? Problem solved.

Why should these people have to say anything. The OP is obviosly a tantrum throwing control freak. Better off w/o her at the grad imo.