Listowel Thread

Lovely writer

Church Newsletter

Cherry Tree

Price of a Pint wrote: »

Heard rumor thar the Lartigue players are coming to NY to perform Sive.
Can anyone confirm and provide details, dates, where playing ,etc

Thanks

What you heard is partly correct. Some members of The Lartigue Theatre group are travelling to N.Y. to perform a tribute show featuring excerpts from Sive and from The Letters of a Matchmaker. This performance is to celebrate the 50th. anniversary of the writing of Sive.
The show will be on on Friday and Saturday October 10th and 11th in
New York Irish Centre
10-40 Jackson Avenue
Long Island City
New York 1101

Sorry, I do not know the time of the performances or the telephone number of the venue.
I attended the preview of the Sive bit in John B's and the whole thing only took a little over 40 minutes.
I hope you get to see it. It's well worth seeing.

UpTheAshes

In reply to Price of A Pint-The Lartigue players will be at The NY Irish Center, 10-40 Jackson Ave, L.I.C., on Fri 10th Oct and Sat 11th Oct at 8pm performing excerpts from Sive and Letters of A Mathchmaker (as mentioned above by Cherry Tree). The phone # is 718-482-0909. Maybe I'll see you there!(and stand you a pint, or at least give you the price of a pint).

John Granville

1953 Photo

I’ll attempt to name some more people from the photo. As ”Listowel 8” pointed out – many are not from the town but quite a few can be recognised. Many in the photo are now deceased but not forgotten. Maybe these names will jog the memories and some more can be identified. I have left a blank when I didn’t know a first name.
Starting on the right at the back. The lad with the white shirt, hands on knees is John Keane, O’Connell’s Ave. Toddy Griffin is on his right. In front of Junior Griffin are Maurice Cahill, Eugene McGuinness, _______ O’Mahony, Ned Boursin and (I think) Maurice Kennelly. Peggy Walsh is also there with her hand to her hair. Joe Guerin is further in – someone’s leg is in sticking up beside him. The third person to Joe’s left is Mrs. Clementine Crowley and next to her is Kit Medell.

Middle row:- The first lady – just showing half face – is Anna May Glavin. Next is Mrs. Sullivan, Charles St. (profile). Next is Mrs. Enright also Charles St. In the white jacket and floral dress is Ms._____ Carroll of the Red Cottages. The third person in from her is Mrs. Howard and on her right is Mrs. Flaherty, mother of Eileen Flaherty (married to Victor Broderick).
Further along that row, the couple wearing glasses are Mr. and Mrs Buckley. He worked in the E.S.B. (Nuala’s father.) The next three ladies are Babe Sullivan (Dillane), Mrs. Andrew Griffin and Mary Whelan, Market St.
Towards the end of that row with his back to the railing and wearing an overcoat and hat is a Mr. Morgan, an American gentleman who lived in Colbert St. On his left is Lizzie Fitz, his housekeeper, and the young girl with her arm around Lizzie’s neck is Marie Nelligan.

Front row, from the right again:- Already identified are the Sullivan children, Paddy Moloney, the Scanlon girls and Gene Moriarty. The chap who is reclining is ____ Holly, I think. Sitting directly in front of Mrs. Andrew Griffin is her good friend, Mrs. Nora Flaherty. The young dark-haired boy standing in front of Mr. Morgan is the late John Behan of Colbert St.

Does anyone recognise anyone else?

Historical footnote: The railing that the people are leaning and which surrounded the playing field was, I am told, originally part of the Lartigue Railway.

Lovely writer

Church Newsletter

UpTheAshes

Congratulations to the Lartigue Theatre who provided an excellent night's entertainment to a packed house at the New York Irish Center on Saturday night (and also Friday night). Danny Hannon's troupe included producer Denis O'Mahony,Helen Walsh, Noreen O'Leary,Sean Moriarty,Con Kirby, Mike Moriarty and Jed Chute. The show and the standard of acting were brilliant, and the assembled Listowel ex-pats had a great night out,
There was, however, one ugly moment during the curtain call where Sean Moriarty became excited and was heard to shout "Up The Boro!" Otherwise it was a great night.

boroman

I hope "up the ashes" was good to his word and treated the pint man if he met him at the Lartigue show, the occasion must have got to Sean Moriarty, he must have been in Oscar mode. Any review of the N.Y. show.

UpTheAshes

Boroman-I have not seen any reviews in the New York Irish papers, although "the Irish Voice" did run a page of photos (p.22). I don't know if they can be viewed online- I think the Irish Voice wants you to register/log in etc.

"Price Of A Pint" could not get a babysitter and did not make it on Saturday night, so my money stays in my pocket.

boroman

Many moons ago when those of us from the Charles St. Patrick St.and O Connells Ave. side of town wanted to go down swimming to the Spa or the Falls we went up via Cahirdown and through a stone stile where the butcher Kennys had fields on the town side of the railway bridge, As the name Kenny Heights suggests the fields ran from a height at the town side down a decline to meet the railway tracks. There was a well worn right of way pathway through the fields down to a wooden stile at the top of woods. From here the path took you down through what we knew as Foleys wood to where you entered out into the Spa via the iron well. This well was mentioned in a report by MR.Julien agent to The Earl of Kerry in 1780 and I quote " a Mrs Fitzgerald has found what she claims to be a chalybeate well at the foot of Ballygowloge and this may some day become an important spa", for younger Listowel folk the Cahirdown area is in the townland of Ballygowloge. In 1946 a Richard o Shaughnessy wrote
"the well,known to locals as "The Iron Well" on the holding of a Mr Foley(Feale View House) is situate about 150 yards from the right bank of the
river and close to the locality called by the inhabitants "The Spa".
The Spa area also accessed through right of way from the pump house was a much loved recreation space for generations of townspeople especially during the summer months.
For the more adventurous a further journey was required in order to reach the mecca of our youth, THE FALLS, past the long rock and on through Connors wood, alongside the thrench which had been dug as part of an early ilconceived Listowel water scheme, then suddenly out of the woods
and into the meadows known as Connells Inch. Two more fields with the pathway skirting the river and then you could hear the music of water breaking over the rockstrewn river floor.
God be with our youth.

UpTheAshes

Thank you Boroman for the information on Kenny's Height, the Iron Well, etc. I looked up the word "chalybeate" and here is what answers.com says- "Impregnated with or containing salts of iron, tasting like iron as water from a spring well". So hence the name, the Iron Well. I also did not know how that trench near the Long Rock (or later Doodah's Rock) came to be there. It did puzzle me and I asked but I was told that it was part of the river at one time. Now that I know that it was a part of some kind of scheme it makes me wonder what they were trying to do.
On top of that, can Boroman enlighten me with any information on "the Bawn's Cave"? When I was a young fella we were told that there was a cave in that area that had been occupied perhaps as far back as to pre-historic times. A few times myself and my friends set out on expeditions to find this cave, and gave hours rooting around the woods, but could never find it. Maybe it was just a story made up by our parents to get rid of us for a few hours by sending us on a wild goose chase.

boroman

In my piece re Kennys Height I mentioned the iron well, this well was to be found further back the field from the spa, the well which I mentioned, that one would pass coming down from K. Heights was of course the spa well, yes in reply to " Up the Ashes" the Bans Cave was real and pieces of stone axe heads and spear heads were found in that locality however more about this anon.

Lovely writer

Church Newsletter

I am sorry for the delay.

RiverFeale

Lovely writer wrote: »

Church Newsletter

I am sorry for the delay.

Many thanks for your weekly church newsletters

John Granville

The “Bawn’s Cave” was more of a recess in the rock face than a cave. It was in the wooded area that runs beside Foley’s Fields – somewhere opposite the Diving Board, as far as I can recall. Boroman is correct when he says that some artefacts were found there. I can remember seeing a well-fashioned arrowhead that someone had found there about 1956/57. It may have been P.J.Halpin who found it. Other pieces were found also and I seem to remember that the site was visited about that time by an archaeologist from Cork University. The last time I was there, many years ago, you could make out some initials that a previous generation of young lads had carved on the rockface. Not prehistoric carvings, I hasten to add. Listowel’s literary history goes back a fair while but hardly to the Neolithic Period!
The name itself, “The Bawn’s Cave”, is interesting. Could it be a corruption of the Irish word “Gobán”? Gobán means a builder or craftsman. Maybe Boroman can shed more light on the matter?

Price of a Pint

I found this elusive "cave" many moons ago.
It was really not a cave but a rock outcroppping on the woody side between foleys fields and kennys heights.
There really was not much to see, i did'nt find any artifacts, only some beer bottles which i imagine were recent.
Great to see more people involved and posting

boroman

I would like to concur with both J.Granville and Price of the Pint with where they state the location of the Bans Cave. From notes that I have seen this general area was used both as a hideout and meeting place for Republican Volunteers on the run during the War of Independence, indeed this was the escape route taken by the Moyvane Volunteers after the fatal shooting of the D.I. O Sullivan in Upper Church St. in 1921.

Cherry Tree

<Great to see more people involved and posting >

I agree totally with "Price of a Pint". Boroman is like a breath of life to this thread. We are all enjoying his local knowledge and John Granville's posts re Foley's Fields and The Bawn's cave have opened up debate which was sorely lacking here of late. Wouldn't the late much lamented Sandhill Road have enjoyed all of this so much. Gone from our lives but never far from our thoughts on this forum.
Here may I interject that the word bán or bawn in placenames often refers to a meadow or untilled field as in "the rocks of bawn".

Ferris+Enright

How do I opened up this file?

UpTheAshes

If the Bawn's Cave is just a "recess" in the rock face as described by Price of a Pint and John Granville, then we did indeed find it on one of our many expeditions. I remember some one of the lads (maybe Price Of A Pint) saying "this is it", but I was a Doubting Thomas. I had a notion in my head that it would be a long, deep cave where prehistoric men could shelter from the elements, animals, enemies, etc, and so I didn't think that we really had found the cave at that time.

John Granville

I think the contributers to the Listowel Thread will have to organise an outing to all these wonderful places. We could have a swim and a picnic at the Falls!

boroman

Now that the mystery of the Bans Cave hasbeen brought to a satisfactory
conclusion we can now turn our thoughts to something that was mentioned here in the past week, I refer to the culvert which is situated in Connors Wood. This man made culvert was intended to form part of a new town water supply bringing water by gravity flow from the Falls area through a series of culverts linking up to a new Pumphouse where the water would be treated before been pumped to the town. This building now serves as a store in the U.D.C. complex on Gurtinard Walk. During the
course of this work a new Engineer was appointed and shortly afterwards in a reappraisal of the project he decided that as a year round sufficent water supply could not be guaranteed for a growing town he in consultation with the City Fathers took the wise decision to abort the project to curtail further waste of money.
This was 130 years ago, have things changed??.

UpTheAshes

Thank you Boroman for explaining what that water scheme was all about.
John Granville's idea of having a picnic and a swim at the Falls might be a good one, but I'm thinking the only safe way to get to the Falls would be through Johnny Connor's wood. You could get a belt of a car if you came down through Kenny's Height or a belt of a golf ball if you came by the Spa!

Price of a Pint

Years ago it was rumored that there was a tunnel between somewhere on the castle grounds to the old church tower in the graveyard.
Is there any truth to this.

Cherry Tree

UpTheAshes wrote: »

Thank you Boroman for explaining what that water scheme was all about.
John Granville's idea of having a picnic and a swim at the Falls might be a good one, but I'm thinking the only safe way to get to the Falls would be through Johnny Connor's wood. You could get a belt of a car if you came down through Kenny's Height or a belt of a golf ball if you came by the Spa!

Great idea! However, we, newcomers to the town within the last 30 years would need a map to get to the picnic.
Yes, Pint man, I have heard of that tunnel too. Maybe Boroman will shed some light for us.
What about a river that ran down Church St; myth or fact?

Price of a Pint

There is some truth to the river running down church st
In my parents backyard the is a a drain which is about 30 feet deep.
I don't think it's part of the sewer system.
To prove though you would have to drop some dye in, and see where it leads.
A school project perhaps ?

John Granville

A stream does indeed run under Church Street or nearby. Many of a certain age will remember the "Glaise". This was an open stream at Ballgologue Cross and was above ground until it came to the four houses beside the present Community College where it went beneath the footpath. All that stretch is now covered over. It exited at Tay Lane. Some may also remember the old urinals in Tay Lane a short distance from the river - permanently flushed by the stream!
I'm sure the stream also served as a sewer at least until the major sewage scheme that was undertaken in the town in the '80's. As far as I know, but I'm open to correction, the stream and the sewer were separated at that stage and the effluent does not now enter the river at Tay Lane. Anyone involved in the Town Council will be able to check.
As for the tunnel - I doubt it very much. What a great engineering feat it would have been.

UpTheAshes

I don't think that there was a tunnel that ran the length of Church St, but I believe that the Crown forces under Wilmot tunneled under the castle to place a mine there to force the castle garrison to surrender in the year 1600. The first tunnel that they dug ran into a spring, so they had to dig again, and this time were successful in placing the charge. The garrison then negotiated a surrender that would spare the women and children, but the men, 18 in all (I think), including some Italian mercenaries were hanged soon after the surrender. I may not be 100% accurate on all of the above, and I am open to correction.

boroman

In reply to the Pintman, anyone who has seen this tunnel he has mentioned would probably have seen it coming up Church Street at about 4.00a.m. and two gallons of porter aboard.
On the other hand John Granville is correct when he describes the large drain/culvert which was used to bring water from the Cahirdown area to exit at the harbour area of Tae Lane behind the hotel.

boroman

boroman wrote: »

In reply to the Pintman, anyone who has seen this tunnel he has mentioned would probably have seen it coming up Church Street at about 4.00a.m. and two gallons of porter aboard.
On the other hand John Granville is correct when he describes the large drain/culvert which was used to bring water from the Cahirdown area to exit at the harbour area of Tae Lane behind the hotel.

This stream can still be seen before it goes underground under the late Roly Chute's house opposite the new Emmets complex.

The mystery of the "tunnel" was eventually resolved during a insidence of ground subsidence at the back of the old National Bank during the 1940's. Instead of the expected treasures people only got a bad smell.
The "tunnel" was in fact part of a cellar under an old tannery which operated at this place from the early 1800's.

boroman

Watch this space.
Something challenging on the way!