Why are bus drivers so mean?

Victor

Zaph0d wrote:

This argument is weak. Most cities have rough customers and still operate two door buses. for example Hackney in London.

When was the last time you saw a garda on a bus or train in this country?

Why don't you give change?

So we don't have to carry cash, because up to 10% of driver were on sick leave following robberies and it would mean spending more dwell time. Why don't you carry the correct change? Why don't ATMs give change?

Why are the rear doors not used?

Security and safety.

Why are there no real-time information displays at bus stops?

It would be expensive to implement. Do you want 1500 (non-revenue earning) information displays or the money equivalent in extra busses.

Why are there no ticket machines?

There are some, but tickets can be bought in several hundred newsagents.

Why are there twice as many stops on a bus route as used on a Luas line of the same length?

Customer convenience.

Why does every bus route in Dublin seem to involve a parade past Dublin bus headquarters on O'Connell Street?

Sorry, no routes were found to service "O'Connell Street"

Only about 38 of 167 routes and sub-routes (A/B/C/X) stop on O'Connell Street.

Why are buses terminated in the city centre?

Poor urban planning means most routes would be too long and journey time too uncertain to be practical. Further, the Department of Transport refuses to grant us new licences or funding to improve services. The presence of TCD to the east and Temple Bar to the west means the number of cross city options are limited.

Why are there so few cross city routes?

See last point

Why are some bus lanes narrower than a bus?

Because (a)council engineers are stupid and (b) the road space may not be available

Why can't an honour ticket system be used on buses when it works on the Luas and would speed up the service?

blorg

...and why are none of the above answers in the Dublin Bus FAQ on their website? (aside from a mention of the exact change one.)

My no.1 question would have to be why DB can't institute heavily discounted pre-paid tickets. Most specifically, a 10 journey, which is the _only_ ticket suitable for occasional bus users. It's ridiculous, I _live_ here and pay cash yet have ten journey tickets for Paris, Barcelona and Madrid (and previously London) which I use when I go there and I bought because they proffered such a good discount!!

Victor

blorg wrote:

...and why are none of the above answers in the Dublin Bus FAQ on their website? (aside from a mention of the exact change one.)

Show me those questions on any other FAQ.

Why does every bus route in Dublin seem to involve a parade past Dublin bus headquarters on O'Connell Street?

Why are there so few cross city routes?

How do you reconcile these two questions?

Zaph0d

Victor wrote:

Why does every bus route in Dublin seem to involve a parade past Dublin bus headquarters on O'Connell Street?

Why are there so few cross city routes?

How do you reconcile these two questions?

1. Just because a bus is on O'Connell Street doesn't mean that it's a cross city route. Many of these buses terminate in Parnell Square or someplace near the city centre.
2. Of course cross city routes don't have to go up O'Connell Street. There is more than one bridge across the Liffey.

You must have seen a FAQ from an organisation that actually answers the most common questions that people ask rather than a bunch of marketing crazy talk that has never been asked by anyone. Having the balls to answer the real questions helps prevent people from filling in all the blanks themselves with 'Because you're a shower of bastards.'

John R

blorg wrote:

My no.1 question would have to be why DB can't institute heavily discounted pre-paid tickets. Most specifically, a 10 journey, which is the _only_ ticket suitable for occasional bus users. It's ridiculous, I _live_ here and pay cash yet have ten journey tickets for Paris, Barcelona and Madrid (and previously London) which I use when I go there and I bought because they proffered such a good discount!!

Travel 90 and rambler tickets are heavily discounted and are perfectly suitable for occasional users.

Unlimited travel tickets are much better suited to tourists than 10 journey tickets.

Zaph0d

Victor wrote:

Show me those questions on any other FAQ.

from the london underground FAQ:
1 Why is it so hot on the Underground at times? Why can't you introduce air conditioning?

2 I see a lot of mice on the Underground. Are they a health hazard and is anything being done to remove them?

3 There are no litter bins at Underground stations. Can you tell me why this is and what alternatives are being considered?

4 Has London Underground considered the possibility of having 'quiet cars' on tubes, as some National Rail companies have on their trains?

5 Why does flooding affect Tube services?

6 What are you doing to improve access for disabled people?

7 Have you thought of piping low-level relaxing music through the platform Tannoy systems ?

8 I would like to have further information on buskers on the Underground

9 Why is there so much litter on the Underground system?

10 Can anything be done about the noise and vibration caused by Underground trains passing underneath or near to my house?

---

Real questions - the kind that customers might have not just catechism.

blorg

A 10-journey is the right choice for anyone who makes light, occasional use of public transport. You buy 10 journeys up front at a discount and then can use them whenever you like. You don't have to estimate up front how much you are going to use the system during any given period, as long as you reckon you will make 6+ (depending on the discount) journeys over whatever long period (and who wouldn't) they are a no-brainer. I would have one in Dublin if they were sold here.

John R wrote:

Travel 90 and rambler tickets are heavily discounted and are perfectly suitable for occasional users.

This depends on one's travel pattern. In my case this is very occasional use of a bus to make relatively short journeys (0.90 fare or at most 1.30.) Generally to and from a bicycle repair shop, as that is what I'm using the rest of the time.

John R wrote:

Unlimited travel tickets are much better suited to tourists than 10 journey tickets.

Again this depends on your travel pattern. My typical pattern is to walk just about everywhere but maybe take public transport once or twice per day. This pattern is ideally suited to 10 journey tickets, which are available in just about any other major city (and used to be available in Dublin!) Often the 10 journeys will be priced at around the price of 5-6 individual journeys and of course can be shared between two or more people. This makes them worthwhile if two people plan to make light use of public transport as little three times during a stay.

Tourists tend to stay pretty centrally in a city and make use of public transport for relatively short journeys. Hence a Travel 90 pack at €1.60/ticket makes no sense as it is _more_ expensive than the typical individual cash fare the tourist would pay And the one day rambler only makes sense for a tourist if they are planning on making more than five typical short journeys (e.g. the 0.90 cash fare) - which seems excessive bus use to me.

Providing a sensible 10 journey ticket provides choice; everywhere else seems to do it and the tickets seem popular. Dublin Bus used to do it, albeit perhaps not as discounted as I would like, and I don't think they were shareable. I don't understand why they don't any more! The simple fact of the matter is that people would _not_ persist in paying cash if properly discounted pre-paid tickets were available.

bazzer

The reason DB discontinued the 10-journey tickets is that many passengers were 'fiddling'. They were deliberately damaging the magnetic strip on the cards so that the validator couldn't read them - in the hope that the driver couldn't be bothered to manually validate it and just wave them on.

blorg

bazzer wrote:

The reason DB discontinued the 10-journey tickets is that many passengers were 'fiddling'. They were deliberately damaging the magnetic strip on the cards so that the validator couldn't read them - in the hope that the driver couldn't be bothered to manually validate it and just wave them on.

Well that's just ridiculous; sensible policy there would be that they have to pay cash but can bring/mail in their damaged ticket for a replacement. It is no excuse for discontinuing the ticket. Besides, they still have a 10 journey (e.g. the Travel 90 ten pack) it's just priced wrong!

BuffyBot

from the london underground FAQ:

TfL, bless them, do have a thing for being honest to a fault. It's slightly disturbing when you get an announcement cancelling all Piccadilly line trains because "some bloke has thrown himself in front of a train at Acton Town and it's a bit of a mess".

shltter

blorg wrote:

...and why are none of the above answers in the Dublin Bus FAQ on their website? (aside from a mention of the exact change one.)

!!

perhaps because they are not frequently asked questions

but maybe if as you suggest loads of people want to know the answers to these questions they should ask DB then they would become FAQs and would be added to the websites FAQ section

shltter

blorg wrote:

Well that's just ridiculous; sensible policy there would be that they have to pay cash but can bring/mail in their damaged ticket for a replacement. It is no excuse for discontinuing the ticket. Besides, they still have a 10 journey (e.g. the Travel 90 ten pack) it's just priced wrong!

and then they would say i dont have any cash i only have my damaged ten journey ticket and i am in a hurry to work, appointment, court , interview, collect dole , etc etc
so should they just be left at the side of the road and told tough

blorg

shltter wrote:

and then they would say i dont have any cash i only have my damaged ten journey ticket and i am in a hurry to work, appointment, court , interview, collect dole , etc etc
so should they just be left at the side of the road and told tough

So you think the best solution is to discontinue the ticket? What about a foreigner with no change who gets on a bus with only a five euro note, and they are in a hurry to catch a train/plane etc. Should they be left on the side of the road? Because that is what happens to them :eek:

EDIT: Besides, there are technical solutions to this 'problem' - for example sell the tickets as a book of ten seperate tickets (this is the way it works in most cities.)

shltter

blorg wrote:

So you think the best solution is to discontinue the ticket? What about a foreigner with no change who gets on a bus with only a five euro note, and they are in a hurry to catch a train/plane etc. Should they be left on the side of the road? Because that is what happens to them :eek:

EDIT: Besides, there are technical solutions to this 'problem' - for example sell the tickets as a book of ten seperate tickets (this is the way it works in most cities.)

no i am telling you why the solution that you offered would not work

basically according to your solution not only would the passenger have to have his ticket he has already paid for but the exact fare for his journey just in case the ticket did not work

so what is the point in having the ticket

the solution already exists buy the multipack of two easy tickets
5 tickets 10 journeys

so really the only arguement is that dublin bus does not discount these tickets ( although really they do because they have to pay the newsagent printing distributing etc whereas they get the full ammount of a cash fare)

maybe the solution is not to discount the prepaid fare but to increase the cash fare significantly to encouage people to buy prepaid tickets

GreeBo

shltter wrote:

although really they do because they have to pay the newsagent printing distributing etc whereas they get the full ammount of a cash fare)

Worst. Argument. Ever.

shltter

GreeBo wrote:

Worst. Argument. Ever.

why do you think there are no increased costs in selling prepaid tickets through newsagents

do you think DB get as much of the fare from a prepaid ticket as they do from a cash fare if so please explain how you work that out

if you honestly think it is the worst arguement ever why have you not disputed it beyond dismissing it

Zaph0d

No matter which way you sell a ticket there is a cost. Newsagent commission, machine maintenance or staff costs for a human ticket seller.

One of the worst ways to sell tickets has to be making the driver to do it so that everyones journey is delayed while he deals with each person one at a time. The cost is service degradation followed by loss of business.

Victor

blorg wrote:

So you think the best solution is to discontinue the ticket? What about a foreigner with no change who gets on a bus with only a five euro note, and they are in a hurry to catch a train/plane etc. Should they be left on the side of the road?

If they are already in the country its not too much to expect them to have change, especially seeing as we use the euro.

There are ticket vending machines and a ticket counter at the airport.

antoinolachtnai

One of the worst ways to sell tickets has to be making the driver to do it so that everyones journey is delayed while he deals with each person one at a time. The cost is service degradation followed by loss of business.

To put it in financial terms, selling tickets on the bus reduces the efficiency of Dublin Bus's capital by 10 or 20 percent. If they didn't spend 10 percent of the journey time selling tickets, they would be able to run 10 percent more services on the peak times, without buying a single extra bus or employing a single extra driver.

On the 'weary traveller' issue, it appeared to be the informal policy in Boston some years ago to allow riders carrying heavy luggage from the airport to travel on the 'T' for free if they don't have any change to buy a token with.

RuggieBear

Got another 7 on Sunday from opp the Gate theatre and got a seat with the girlie between the stair case and the back of the bus. Bus was absolutely jammed by people getting on O'Connoll Street.

Anyway, I hit the bell for my stop and as the crowd in the ailse was so packed couldn't get near the front of the bus...the bus stopped at my empty stop on an empty street....shouted down to the driver could he open the back door twice....a person stading near the driver also repeated my request...the driver refused and in the end, 8 people had to get off the the bus to allow me to exit.

Can't imagine how much time he would have saved by allowing myself and the girlfriend to just exit from the rear doors.

Probably the same bloody driver as last time too.....

shltter

In fairness the driver would have a better view of how safe or unsafe it would have been to open the centre doors
He/She is responsible for your safety while you are boarding and alighting

Also if it was as packed as you say his view of the centre door may have been restricted because the centre doors are not used often the mirrors for the centre door maybe missing/broken out of place etc

another point is was there seats upstairs for example that people were refusing to use and were crowding into the space in between the stairs and the front doors in those circumstances why would a driver put himself in harms way in regard of passenger safety to accommodate people who couldn't be bothered to take a seat sometimes making it awkward for them is the only way to get these people to take a seat

GreeBo

shltter wrote:

In fairness the driver would have a better view of how safe or unsafe it would have been to open the centre doors
He/She is responsible for your safety while you are boarding and alighting

Also if it was as packed as you say his view of the centre door may have been restricted because the centre doors are not used often the mirrors for the centre door maybe missing/broken out of place etc

another point is was there seats upstairs for example that people were refusing to use and were crowding into the space in between the stairs and the front doors in those circumstances why would a driver put himself in harms way in regard of passenger safety to accommodate people who couldn't be bothered to take a seat sometimes making it awkward for them is the only way to get these people to take a seat

I dont see how opening the rear doors could be dangersous as long as the driver is stopped at a bus stop??
There should be one way barriers at the rear doors to stop bocko and socko from jumping on and no one should be allowed to alight via the front door.

shltter

GreeBo wrote:

I dont see how opening the rear doors could be dangersous as long as the driver is stopped at a bus stop??
There should be one way barriers at the rear doors to stop bocko and socko from jumping on and no one should be allowed to alight via the front door.

you have obviously never seen push bike and motor bike couriers coming up the inside of a bus then even on the footpath i have seen them

it is a dead arguement the new buses only have one door

GreeBo

shltter wrote:

you have obviously never seen push bike and motor bike couriers coming up the inside of a bus then even on the footpath i have seen them

no obviously I have not. :rolleyes:
so how do these maniac cyclists avoid the front door?

shltter wrote:

it is a dead arguement the new buses only have one door

yeah, what percentage of our buses are "new"?
Do you not think we might also get "new" buses in the future.
They are made to order in whatever configuration you want afaik.

RuggieBear

shltter wrote:

you have obviously never seen push bike and motor bike couriers coming up the inside of a bus then even on the footpath i have seen them

the driver would have seen everything on the street as it's dead straight and he would have overtaken any bikes/push bikes before reaching the stop.

Besides you could use your argument for passengers having to exit from the fron t doors too...

shltter

front door is right beside the driver which allows the driver to warn passengers stick an arm out to stop people etc

if you are a regular traveller on buses you will frequently hear drivers warning people not to get off yet or putting an arm out to stop passengers

as for dead straight you obviously have no idea how fast motorbike couriers etc travel in the city

GreeBo

shltter wrote:

front door is right beside the driver which allows the driver to warn passengers stick an arm out to stop people etc

if you are a regular traveller on buses you will frequently hear drivers warning people not to get off yet or putting an arm out to stop passengers

Dont buses have doors to stop people getting off?
Are you seriously telling me that we dont use the rear doors because the driver cant put his arm out to stop people alighting when its dangerous? :eek:

shltter wrote:

as for dead straight you obviously have no idea how fast motorbike couriers etc travel in the city

Man I wish everything was as obvious to me at is obviously is to you.
If the bus is at the bus stop what does it matter how fast anywone is driving anywhere?
Unless you call drivers pulling in 6 feet from the curb with a cyclepath in between "stopping at the bus stop"?

shltter

GreeBo wrote:

no obviously I have not. :rolleyes:
so how do these maniac cyclists avoid the front door?.

the driver has a lot more control over the front door as i have already said

GreeBo wrote:

yeah, what percentage of our buses are "new"?
Do you not think we might also get "new" buses in the future.
They are made to order in whatever configuration you want afaik.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/about_us/double_decks.asp

406 double decker buses are AV or DT minus the airlink ones that have centre doors so roughly 400 have only front doors
540 would have front and centre doors but that number will decrease and the other rise as these are replaced


the decision has already been made to move away from centre doors

Zaph0d

shltter wrote:

the decision has already been made to move away from centre doors

Only a matter of time before the decision is made to eliminate the front door, thus avoiding the health and safety issues with carrying passengers.

RuggieBear

tbh, shltter, i reckon you are just a tireless rebutter at this stage.