Why are bus drivers so mean?

John R

Snickers Man wrote:

1) little or no through ticketing:

Why is your fare based on your route and not your journey? Why can't you jump off a bus on its way into town and use the same ticket to jump on another one heading off to your destination? I ask because I travel from southside to northside in the morning and there is a bus which "in theory" goes from 10 minutes walk from my house to 2 minutes walk from my office.

In practice, it is often late, cancelled, or reassigned to another similar but vitally different route to the one I need. In the meantime, several busses pass me by which would drop me in town at a stop where I could get another bus to my office? I should be able to jump on and off each one on the same ticket like you can do in ANY city in Europe? What is Dublin Bus's problem with this?

Their problem is customers who are too lazy/ignorant/stupid to BUY the tickets they have had for years that are just for this purpose.

A. Travel 90 ticket in books of 10 at €1.60 each As many buses as you like as long as the last journey commences within 90 minutes of the first one.

B. Rambler tickets. An assortment of unlimited use tickets for 1/3/5 days €3.40 for one day bought in a book of 5.

C. Wide range of weekly monthly and annual commuter tickets allowing travel on a combination of bus, train, luas and Bus Eireann.

But what you really want is to step on the bus, hand over a €50 note, tell the driver your plan for the day and have a custom ticket issued to you.
There is also an option for this, it is called a taxi.
Look around and you may notice that the bus is full of other people who do not want to sit in a stationary bus while you discuss your plans and mull over a range of ticket options with the driver for five minutes.

Snickers Man wrote:

2) The No Change policy is an insult to the travelling public.

Suggesting that working people should have to allow themselves be at considerable risk of assault just so you don't have the terrible inconvenience of having the correct fare on you or going to O'Connell St once every few years is an insult.

Snickers Man wrote:

IF they want to maximise their personal security, then OK. But why not implement it fairly? Why not take the receipt chits they give you when they overcharge you as part payment for the next fare?

That willl really help speed up the boarding, cue the penny pinching muppets throwing a handful of screwed up tickets at the driver, demanding he sorts out €1.75 worth and give the rest back with another ticket for the overage.

Snickers Man wrote:

Why not make it easier to buy the prepaid tickets that remove the need for cash at all on buses? Why only make them available through 'Official Dublin Bus Agents'? FFS, jumping on a bus should be a simple no-brainer reflex action, not something you have to plan like an Antarctic expedition.

Poor you having to endure...Going into a newsagent. What a terrible fukking ordeal.

Snickers Man wrote:

And why is there only ONE f***ing place in the entire city where you can claim your refund?

Why is there any? No other bus service that operates exact fare schemes that I know of give any sort of change/refund. It is a big waste all round, it wastes time on boarding, adds a layer of un-necessary accounting and is a disincentive for many people to abandon cash payments.

Snickers Man wrote:

Why am I whinging?

Because that is what whingers do, look at everything and complain about what is not perfectly suited to them without any thought to the effect on anyone else.

Snickers Man wrote:

The great Irish public gave up on this shambles years ago and now drives to work, the shops, in fact to everything. Most people don't care that the bus service is crap because they never take it.

Not true, it just looks that way because 100 people in cars is a tailback as far as the eye can see wheras 100 people in buses is two vehicles.

150 million journeys per year and rising is hardly nobody.

Snickers Man wrote:

Those that have no choice take out their frustrations on the drivers, their first point of contact. Unfair maybe, but if the drivers reacted by pushing their bosses to improve the situation instead of tolerating and justifying such a palbably unfair system, maybe they would get more sympathy.

They are not looking for sympathy, just the respect and common decency that any working person is entitled to.
It is not their jobs to push their bosses into anything. There are plenty of people (elected officials, public servants etc.) who are paid very well to improve public services but do little or nothing and often make things significantly worse. You expect those at the bottom of the ladder to, as well as a full time job, spend their spare time lobbying on your behalf and risking their livelihoods in the process? Cop on.

John R

Solitaryman666 wrote:

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A bus at 13.45 and an exam that cannot be repeated for a year at 14.00.

The bus being late is their fault but missing the exam is at least 75% down to you for leaving so little time to spare.

As the previous poster said ring the garage, that's why the numbers are printed on all the timetables.

Bogger77

^^

Totally agree, on the buses in Lyon and Rome, No cash is taken FULL STOP, not even on the Night Buses. And no, there's no shops you can buy tickets at, you have to purchase them at subway stations,which close around 12at nite.
No ticket --> No Bus.


If you want to know why no change is given, I know of one driver, robbed at 9.15am, for the princely sum of 2.50 punts, all in change (his float, as the driver was just starting his shift).
The number 42C bus from Talbot Street to Darndale was discontinued after 7 drivers were threatened with Syringes in 1 month, the regular drivers on that bus route had an average of less than 6months between robberies.

Bogger77

John R wrote:

A bus at 13.45 and an exam that cannot be repeated for a year at 14.00.

The bus being late is their fault but missing the exam is at least 75% down to you for leaving so little time to spare.

As the previous poster said ring the garage, that's why the numbers are printed on all the timetables.

tbh, cutting it a bit getting to the exam hall at 13:45, let alone only getting transport.

Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

(I'm not going to point out the spelling error's in Solitaryman posts, as that'd be a bit cruel)

RuggieBear

wtf is the point of those security screens if the drivers can still be attacked....seems a bit half arsed to me.

cal29

RuggieBear wrote:

wtf is the point of those security screens if the drivers can still be attacked....seems a bit half arsed to me.

they provide some security but they are not perfect

on top of which there is the heat issue especially during the summer it a bit of a glass house
there is the sound issue it is hard to hear a passenger through a closed one
there is a light reflection issue
and there is the claustraphobic (spelling ? ) issue

John R

RuggieBear wrote:

wtf is the point of those security screens if the drivers can still be attacked....seems a bit half arsed to me.

It is half-arsed but it lets DB management say they have done their bit to protect their employees without having to make the hard decisions that would deal properly with the problem.

RuggieBear

John R wrote:

It is half-arsed but it lets DB management say they have done their bit to protect their employees without having to make the hard decisions that would deal properly with the problem.

so very true. :eek:

Cal29 states some valid but easily overcome problems but i suppose that would cost too much money....

gobdaw

John R Quote:
"Their problem is customers who are too lazy/ignorant/stupid to BUY the tickets they have had for years that are just for this purpose.

A. Travel 90 ticket in books of 10 at €1.60 each As many buses as you like as long as the last journey commences within 90 minutes of the first one."


Do these tickets still have date limit? As an occasional user I used use 10 trip tickets but DB then introduced a twe week time limit on their use. So it was back to cash for me (or use the car!)

John R

gobdaw wrote:

Do these tickets still have date limit? As an occasional user I used use 10 trip tickets but DB then introduced a twe week time limit on their use. So it was back to cash for me (or use the car!)

Officially 6 months from day of purchase but in practice much longer as there is no record of when they were purchased.

shltter

gobdaw wrote:

John R Quote:
"Their problem is customers who are too lazy/ignorant/stupid to BUY the tickets they have had for years that are just for this purpose.

A. Travel 90 ticket in books of 10 at €1.60 each As many buses as you like as long as the last journey commences within 90 minutes of the first one."


Do these tickets still have date limit? As an occasional user I used use 10 trip tickets but DB then introduced a twe week time limit on their use. So it was back to cash for me (or use the car!)

the official date limit is six months but what that really means is six months from when ever they make a change to the ticket

ie if they put the price up on them tomorrow the old price tickets are still valid for six months from then rather than when you bought them

Mimikyu

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shltter

and did you bother to complain or find out why

Mimikyu

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bazzer

No bus service is 100% reliable. Who knows what could have happened to make a bus not turn up. Maybe the driver was taken ill, or assaulted, or had to deal with a passenger problem. Maybe there was traffic hold-up due to an accident or emergency. Maybe the bus had a mechanical failure. Maybe the bus had to be taken out of service due to a passenger being taken ill.

Maybe, maybe, maybe........ there's a whole range of things that can go wrong - and who gets the brunt of the angry customer? Yes, the next driver who comes along who hasn't got a clue what happened either!

Sh*t happens. Cut them a little slack.

Mimikyu

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bazzer

I do take your point. If it happens once, then just a once-off. Twice or more at the same time suggests something else may be afoot. There may be an operational reason. I think the only course of action open to you is to make a polite enquiry to the Garage controller.

They do try to 'regulate' buses on the ground. For example, an inspector may instruct a 46A heading for Mountjoy Square to turn around at Westmoreland Street and head back from D'Olier Street if there are no passengers on board. Of course that's little comfort to someone waiting for a bus to Mountjoy Square from O'Connell Street! I know one wouldn't have to wait too long for another 46A, but when it comes to once-an-hour services like the 270, it's a VERY noticeable gap and shouldn't happen.

Ring Harristown and see what they say.

Mimikyu

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Mimikyu

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Mimikyu

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shltter

Solitaryman666 wrote:

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i can absolutely gaurantee you based on what you said happened that Dublin Bus are telling you lies to make you feel better.

but do me a favour print off the email and show it to the driver just to see if what it says bears any relation to the facts of what DB did

Mimikyu

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shltter

Solitaryman666 wrote:

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sorry let you bathe in the glory of your victory for a while



Just as a matter of interest did you give DB your name and address and permission to pass it to the driver

If you didn't then it is definitely bull **** because they can not take any action without that and the driver has a legal right to know who is complaining about him.

Snickers Man

shltter wrote:

the exact fare system was introduced because at the time DB had over 100 drivers out of work having being assaulted during a robbery
it was the only way to maintain a service

i suggest you investigate your statement about drivers being sissys further assaults involving robbery involved drivers being beaten stabbed with blood filled syringes hi jacked attacked with a glove with razor blades attached having petrol poured on them and threatened with lighters etc guns iron bars
drivers in hospital with fractured skulls some who were never able to work again. Are you seriously suggesting that drivers should have to put up with that

the implementation of the autofare and sale of prepaid tickets is completely in the hands of management

I have no problem whatsoever with drivers insisting on their own personal safety and management taking reasonable steps to implement that. My beef is with the way it is implemented at the expense of the travelling public.

You want people to buy prepaid tickets? Great. Good idea. I'm all for it. Why do so few people avail of it? Why is there still a queue to get on to every bus because people still look to pay cash?

Push out prepayments. Offer discounts. Get those tickets into places where it is convenient for the travelling public to buy them. Like why not at bus stops themselves? What's wrong with automated ticket vending machines there? Ah sure Jaysus, won't the knackers only vandalise them?

Or get them into every newsagent and sweetshop and screw this farcical notion that only a select few 'official agents' have the necessary skills to carry out the onerous task of selling shaggin' bus tickets.

in fact Dublin Bus carry half a million passengers a day

Well maybe I only use less travelled routes but I am rarely on a crowded bus. They could take so much more. Why don't they try to? Why don't they make it easier for passengers to take the bus and to pay for it? Not rocket science. It's called business development. Or just plain selling.

so your suggestion is that employees of the company should force improvements in the service
how would you suggest they do that

Well Duh!!! Just wait till you're all privatised mate. You'll soon find that culture forced on you like a dose of salts.

Personallly, I DON'T want to see privatised bus routes. I want to see a better integrated service. I think a centrally managed service should be able to do that. Like it does in most European cities. Especially central European Germanic ones.

So if you're a bus driver and you want to stay part of a big happy public sector family: then I'm with you. Why not get the public on your side with insisting on better procedures for dealing with the public and improving services?

Get the public on your side by showing how good a public service could be.

It can be a lot better than Dublin Bus is now. Ask anyone who's every been to Germany. Or Holland. Or Belgium. Or the Czech Republic. etc etc etc

Snickers Man

John R wrote:

Their problem is customers who are too lazy/ignorant/stupid to BUY the tickets they have had for years that are just for this purpose.

A. Travel 90 ticket in books of 10 at €1.60 each As many buses as you like as long as the last journey commences within 90 minutes of the first one.

B. Rambler tickets. An assortment of unlimited use tickets for 1/3/5 days €3.40 for one day bought in a book of 5.

C. Wide range of weekly monthly and annual commuter tickets allowing travel on a combination of bus, train, luas and Bus Eireann.

A lot of the "ignorance" of which you speak is down to Dublin Bus. People in Dublin should be as aware of the ticket options as they are of the location of their local pub. I've never heard of Travel 90. (Thanks for the tip BTW) I normally use the two-journey prepaid options because I don;t take the bus every day. These should be discounted, in my view to encourage prepayment. And made available at more locations.

Is it my fault that I don't know of all the options? Or is it DB's fault for not promoting their services properly?

But what you really want is to step on the bus, hand over a €50 note, tell the driver your plan for the day and have a custom ticket issued to you.

Nope. I would much rather pay for my ticket before I ever get on the bus.

Suggesting that working people should have to allow themselves be at considerable risk of assault just so you don't have the terrible inconvenience of having the correct fare on you or going to O'Connell St once every few years is an insult.

You're avoiding the issue. Make it easier for people to pay for their tickets. Tell them how and where to go about buying them. And increase the range of outlets where they can be purchased.

Poor you having to endure...Going into a newsagent. What a terrible fukking ordeal.

As a famous coach (double entendre) once said: 'It's not sex the night before a match that wears a footballer out. It's the staying up all night looking for it that's the problem'

It's not buying the ticket beforehand that's the problem. It's the paucity of places that sells them. If it was every place that sells newspapers, then great. But it isn't. Why not?

No other bus service that operates exact fare schemes that I know of give any sort of change/refund It is a big waste all round, it wastes time on boarding, adds a layer of un-necessary accounting and is a disincentive for many people to abandon cash payments.

Well frankly I don't know of any other bus service that operates a no-change scheme. But you're on the right track with incentives to abandon cash payments. Why not incentivise people to purchase prepaid tickets? All you're doing now is incentivising them to abandon public transport.

I have.

Largely.

nlgbbbblth

1999
I was on the 18 coming down Waterloo Road. Someone rang the bell and the driver stopped at the stop. No one got off. Driver shouts 'Who rang the bell?' 'Does someone want to get off?'

Silence.

Then about a dozen people moved forward as they wanted to get off at the bottom of the road (by the Xtravision) which brings them onto Upper Baggot St.

Lights are green.

Bus flies past the stop and goes through the lights turning right onto whatever that road is called.

People look annoyed.

Driver snarls 'See how you like it then!'

Driver snarls

Mimikyu

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_Kaiser_

I've recently bought a car and I can honestly say that I don't regret the decision at all - despite having to now pay insurance, tax, petrol costs etc..

Why? Well because of the following:

No more waiting on buses that don't show, or leave early/late.
Very regular occurance on the 39s - the record was waiting 45 minutes for one inbound to City Centre, while 14!!! passed in the opposite direction.
Logged it with the depot (complete with fleet numbers) only to be given some excuse about a shift change and traffic conditions.
Fair enough if this was the exception rather than the rule, but it doesn't seem to matter what time or day it is - the 39 has to be one of the worst services in Dublin (ironic considering it was also the first CitySwift route too). I had many chats with the depot when this sorta thing happened, but of course nothing ever changed. Eventually I got so pissed off with the apathy that I started commuting by train to town - more expensive but at least it was a lost faster and generally more reliable.. thankfully most people in the area hadn't realised this it seemed.


No more having to take a 2 hr journey (and 2/3 buses) for a trip that can be done in 30 mins by car.
Specifically from Blanch - Coolock. You can either take a 220 to Ballymun (only one bus an hour on average), 17A to Northside SC and a 27 the rest of the way, or a 38/39 into town and a 27 back out. I can now drive over there in about 20-30 mins (and that's even without using the M50).

I drive to work too and it takes me an hour in the morning to get from Blanch to where I'm going... and that's going through town and leaving at the same time (later actually) than I'd have to if going by train/bus. Taking the public transport option can take anywhere from 90 minutes - 2 hours AND you'll most likely be standing for your journey.


No more dealing with rude/ignorant staff.
For example, having stood for half an hour waiting on a bus that's supposedly scheduled to run every 8 minutes, when it did eventually show up, I asked the driver politely if there were missing duties on the route, and what time he left town at (so I could then report it to the depot rather than have a go at him), only to be met by a tirade of abuse. Not being racist (as Irish drivers give the same crap too), but he was a non-national and seemed to have an awful chip on his shoulder.

Still, duly reported to Phibsboro operations who promised to have a word with the driver involved but as DB rarely feedback to customers, who knows if this happened?

Also experienced the "drivers closing the doors and pulling off early even though they can see you running for the bus" phenomenon. I actually remember one of them admitting on a late night radio talkshow that it's a common "game" they play.

Also, DB staff seem generally very reluctant to identify themselves when asked - useful if following up a complaint.

I freely acknowledge that driving a bus in this city isn't an easy job and I certainly couldn't do it myself, but the old saying of "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" applies. There is certainly no excuse for taking out frustration on customers who, lest we forget, are helping to pay their wages and (overinflated) overtime!


No more travelling on substandard vehicles.
While the state of the city's roads is of course a major factor here, get on mid-90s RA/RV bus operating out of Clontarf depot and be prepared to feel EVERY bump in the road as it goes through Fairview and the Malahide Road.

Even the 02 allocation of AV's that they got for the 27's are bad - partly due to drivers slamming over speed ramps around Northside SC/Glin Road (seems noone tells them speed ramps are there to make you SLOW DOWN!)

Maintenance in Clontarf seems to be very sloppy anyway which doesn't help.


Also, despite the increasingly frequent fare increases and new orders of buses each year, i have yet to see any improvement in the service being offered. If I were cynical, I'd think DB management are trying to squeeze as much cash from the travelling public as they can before privitisation is introduced and they then HAVE to compete on service (in theory anyway!).

As long as these conditions remain true, people will not see public transport as a viable option (and I would argue rightly so). It's unlikely to change anytime soon I feel as in my experience, drivers don't give a toss, neither do their bosses and the problems with things at the DTO planning levels have been well documented on this forum.

We all know it can be done better by looking at services/structures abroad, but it's yet another example of the typical Irish attitude to doing things (not just a problem in DB, but also Eircom, the Gardai, Dublin City Council etc etc).. half-assed, apathetic and only concerned with covering themselves and keeping themselves employed rather than pursuing their (supposed) remit of providing a public service. Makes you ashamed to be a citizen of this country sometimes.

Ta for reading this far

Victor

Pembroke Road.

nlgbbbblth wrote:

Then about a dozen people moved forward as they wanted to get off at the bottom of the road (by the Xtravision) which brings them onto Upper Baggot St. Lights are green. Bus flies past the stop and goes through the lights turning right onto whatever that road is called. People look annoyed. Driver snarls 'See how you like it then!' Driver snarls

Between them why didn't someone press the bell?

nlgbbbblth

Victor wrote:

Pembroke Road.Between them why didn't someone press the bell?

sorry - I didn't make it clear - but a couple of people pressed the bell prior to moving to the front of the bus.

The driver chose to ignore it because he was obviously angry at what had happened on Waterloo Road - hence his 'see how you like it then' outburst.