Parliamentary Questions

Sparks

Wednesday, 20 June 2012

Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
Question 34: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the number of firearms licences issued by An Garda Síochána in 2009, 2010, 2011 and to date in 2012; the individual licence fee in each of those years and the total sum raised on an annual basis; the expected total in 2012; his views on whether the number of firearms in circulation and that the licence fee is of a sufficient amount; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29550/12]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)

I can inform the Deputy that a new system for firearms licensing commenced on the 1st of August, 2009 with the commencement of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 and the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009. This radically changed the manner in which firearms are now licensed in the State. Included in these changes was the introduction of three year Firearm Certificates, with a standard fee of €80 for 3 years, and the outsourcing by the Gardai of the collection of fees to An Post. The table below shows the number of Firearm Certificates issued for the years 2009/2010, 2011, and to date in 2012 (up to 11/06/12). The figures for 2009 and 2010 are combined as new, three year certificates were issued from August 2009 onwards.

Table: Number of certificates issued
Year|Firearm Certificates Issued
1 August 2009 to 31 December 2010|187,445
January to December 2011|30,716
January to 11 June, 2012|5,629

(As firearms certs are now issued on a three year cycle, yearly figures no longer reflect the numbers of certs/ licences in existence in the State in that year).

The three year fee for a standard Firearms Certificate was set in 2009 at €80 and like all Government fees charged for services they are subject to review, from time to time. The amount generated in respect of firearm certificates fees for the years 2009, 2010, 2011, and to date in 2012 is as follows:

Year|Revenue from fees
2009|€2,765,630
2010|€13,079,251
2011|€2,234,179
2012 (up to 31/5/12)|€402,884

In the revised 2012 Estimates and the related budget provision, the projected revenue for 2012 for licence fees is €1,607,000.

The Deputy has also asked for my views regarding the number of firearms in circulation. Each application for a firearms certificate is considered on its own merits under the Firearms Acts. The senior Garda officers of each District or Division are by law the designated persons for deciding on firearms applications. This is an independent function carried out by them and they must consider a wide range of factors before granting any certificate. The operation of the firearms licensing system is kept under review and, as I have informed the House previously, my primary concern is public safety.

Quite an interesting PQ that one, in terms of what information came out.
Rather worrying phrasing though - I might be wrong, but I read it as "are we charging enough?"...

rowa

Sparks wrote: »

Wednesday, 20 June 2012


Quite an interesting PQ that one, in terms of what information came out.
Rather worrying phrasing though - I might be wrong, but I read it as "are we charging enough?"...

Seeing as the hog want to charge people a fiver to look at their septic tanks i wouldn't be surprised if a fee hike is on the cards.

Sparks

18 September:

Noel Harrington (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
1060. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if he will clarify the legal position regarding S.I. No. 307 of 2009, section 4, as raised by a person (details supplied) in County Cork ; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37325/13]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Statutory Instrument 307 of 2009: 'Firearms (Secure Accommodation) Regulations 2009', outlines the security requirements of firearm owners in this State, depending on the number and type of firearm(s) they have licensed.
The only exception (as provided in the first Section of the schedule in S.I 307 of 2009) to the minimum requirement of a gun safe is for an individual who has one non-restricted shotgun. The minimum requirement in that situation is that:
" The shotgun shall be disassembled and each part shall be stored securely and separately when not in use.

The trigger housing shall be secured against use with an appropriate trigger lock."
It is important to note that the Statutory Instrument specifies minimum requirements. It is open to the Garda Síochána to impose a condition that goes beyond these minimum requirements if they consider it necessary in the interests of public safety and security.
I note from the details supplied that the requirement for a gun safe for a 0.22 air rifle is questioned. I would consider air rifles, particularly those of 0.22 calibre, to be dangerous weapons when inappropriately handled. Accordingly I have no plans to revise the Statutory Instrument at this stage. I will forward to the Deputy an article in the Journal of Clinical Pathology outlining fatalities and injuries caused by the misuse of air weapons.

Cass

Sparks wrote:

I will forward to the Deputy an article in the Journal of Clinical Pathology outlining fatalities and injuries caused by the misuse of air weapons

The article he refers to is here.

It was written in 1998, and 5 cases were studied. Of the 5 cases:

• Two were of a suicide
• One was of an accidental death caused by tom foolery
• Two were from leaving a loaded rifle lying around and a person dying from accidental discharge.

They go on to discuss the one death per year (figures only accurate to 1998) that occurs from accidental or purposeful death from air powered weapons.


While not undervaluing any death from an air rifle or any firearm, if some poor person is of a state of mind to harm themselves then i don't believe access to a firearm is going to prevent this. As for accidental deaths. The one death per year (again only accurate to 1998) is almost insignificant (you know how that is intended) compared to the number of deaths from driving, work accidents, other methods of suicide, and other forms of accidental death (drowning, etc.)

While sad, and tragic any gun that is handled without care and due respect has that same ability. Yet this the UK has not identified this as a problem in the 15 years since the report was issued. Yet Ireland, and it's law, use this report as some sort of "reason" to why they are imposing the strict conditions they do.


Lastly all this is relevant to the UK, and they also mention the USA. Nothing about Ireland. How would those figures look if Irish cases were found or used. Drastically less which is an over statement considering the numbers already discussed.

Sparks

17 October:

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
174. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality further to Parliamentary Questions Nos. 429 of 26 March and 13 June 2013, if the report from the Commissioner is now available. [44092/13]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)

I refer the Deputy to my reply by letter to Parliamentary Question Number 429 of 26 March, 2013. This reply, as set out in italics beneath, issued from my Office on 11 July, and was also a follow up reply to Question Number 117 of 13 June.

"I am writing to you further to the Parliamentary Question number 14875/13 you put down for answer on Tuesday, 26 March, in connection with the costs of recent judicial reviews in the firearms licensing area.

I understand that 22 separate Bills of Costs have, so far, been served on the Chief State Solicitor. These refer to some of the adjourned firearms judicial reviews as part of the agreement reached between the parties on 31 January 2012. No Bills of Costs have yet been received regarding the 'test cases'. I understand that in the event of failure of the CSSO's Costs Section to reach agreement on the costs of the 22 Bills of Costs submitted then it will be referred to a Taxing Master for adjudication. It is not possible to give more precise information at this stage.

I am also informed that the issue of costs being awarded in respect of District Court Appeals was the subject of a High Court judgment by Judge Peart on the 1st of May, 2013 in the case Hayes - V- Chief Superintendent Sheahan. In summary, the Judge found that existing court rules do not give a District Court Judge jurisdiction to award costs to an applicant, in the absence of any statutory power to award costs on appeal under Section 15A of the Firearms Acts.

In relation to the request for information for the total estimated cost of all Gardaí time in processing and providing backup to the legal actions, this is not readily available and the Garda Commissioner informs me that it would require a disproportionate amount of Garda time and resources to compile same.

While I have stated that the collapse of the test cases was because of issues associated with record keeping in relation to some applications it is worth noting that the Chief Superintendent is, in law, the persona designata and it is not for me to second guess his or her decision or somehow to assume that because legals costs were incurred that the wrong decision was made. I would not like it to deflect from the issue of the dangers presented by handguns and I am still considering a report submitted to me by the Garda Commissioner in this regard".

I've highlighted the read-between-the-lines bit in blue...

Vegeta

Sparks wrote: »

17 October:


I've highlighted the read-between-the-lines bit in blue...

Ominous

Sparks

Vegeta wrote: »

Ominous

Yeah. My eyes read that but all I heard in my head was "Keep it up lads, it's a damn sight easier to write "all handguns" in a restricted list SI that doesn't have to go through the Dail and thereby ban every handgun in the state, than it is to maintain the status quo...

BattleCorp

I honestly feel sad that so called "educated people" can't tell the difference between law abiding citizens using their lawfully held firearms for lawful sporting purposes and scumbags using their illegal pistols to commit crimes.

Cass

It has been said many times before, but i reckon they do. The only difference is we are an easily identifiable group, that will abide by law changes regardless of our feelings towards them, and then the stats show a drop in the number of firearms, hence a win in the eyes of the public for the Gov.

rowa

Cass wrote: »

It has been said many times before, but i reckon they do. The only difference is we are an easily identifiable group, that will abide by law changes regardless of our feelings towards them, and then the stats show a drop in the number of firearms, hence a win in the eyes of the public for the Gov.

We are also a group that the public has little sympathy for, we kill cuddly little animals for fun and are the type of people who could potentially shoot up a school. We know the truth to be different, but what has the truth to do with politics ?

Sparks

And to add to all that, there's an element of "embarrass the Minister at your own peril", which is a whole other criticism of our society but until that changes, it's the reality we have to deal with (and don't).

rowa

Sparks wrote: »

And to add to all that, there's an element of "embarrass the Minister at your own peril", which is a whole other criticism of our society but until that changes, it's the reality we have to deal with (and don't).

In fairness though, Shatter doesn't need any help embarrassing himself, he has the classic "foot in mouth" disease, every time he opens his mouth his foot winds up in it.
Maybe its time to think of an irish version of the party in the link below ?

http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/

Cass

The problem being if we embarrass (in whatever format that may take) him he can sign an SI and effective restrict or do away with elements of certain sports.

Sparks

rowa wrote: »

Shatter doesn't need any help embarrassing himself

...but give him help and he'll not thank you for it. Same as with any minister of the last few decades...

Sparks

26 November 2013:

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
505. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality his views on correspondence (details supplied) regarding the approval for use of silencers on rifles; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50541/13]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)

Under Section 7 of the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990, a silencer for a non-restricted rifle must be authorised by a Superintendent of An Garda Síochána of the District in which the applicant resides. The Superintendent must be satisfied that granting such an application will not endanger public safety or the peace and that the applicant has a special need that is, in the opinion of the Superintendent, sufficient to justify the granting of an authorisation for a silencer.

A decision to grant or refuse an authorisation for a silencer rests solely with the Superintendent of the District where the applicant resides, and for each application a Superintendent can take account of a broad range of factors.

The Garda Commissioner's Guidelines as to the Practical Application and Operation of the Firearms Acts, available on the website www.garda.ie, provides guidance on the issue. As a decision maker under the Firearms Acts, a Superintendent is independent in the carrying out of his functions, and I as Minister have no role in the decision making process.

Neck like a jockey's proverbials, that particular TD...

Sparks

I think I'm going to have to split out most of the last page or two of comments as we're way off the topic. But until I get the chance...

Dec 3 2013

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
307. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if his attention has been drawn to the current status of the revised alarm standard being prepared by the Private Security Authority; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [51837/13]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)

The Private Security Authority (PSA), an independent agency under the remit of my Department established under the Private Security Services Acts, 2004 and 2011, is the regulatory body with responsibility for regulating and licensing the private security industry in the state. I am informed by the Authority that they published an information document entitled Requirements for the Licensing of Centres Monitoring CCTV and Intruder Alarm Systems in February 2013. This document outlined proposals for dealing with the introduction of the new European standard for monitoring centres, EN 50518, and the future PSA licensing requirements for CCTV and Intruder Alarm monitoring centres. Legal issues on related issues which impacted on the development of the new standard have recently been resolved.

At its November 2013 meeting, the Board of the PSA agreed to the drafting of regulations extending licensing to CCTV Monitoring Centres together with the introduction of a new monitoring centre standard. Following on from this approval, the PSA is undertaking a public consultation process on the new standard. It is expected that this consultation process will be completed by the end of January 2014 at which stage the PSA will announce a timeframe for the licensing of CCTV Monitoring Centres and the introduction of the new standard.

The Deputy has previously raised the Firearms (Secure Accommodation) Regulations, S.I. 307 of 2009, which makes reference to alarm standards and back up signalling facilities in the context of the development of the standard. My Department is consulting with An Garda Síochána and the PSA regarding updating the Regulations with a view to addressing in early 2014 the issues previously raised by the Deputy.

Interesting section highlighted - if the SI's being tweaked, there are a few other changes that could be done simultaneously, like unrestricting crossbows and paintball markers or even looking at some centerfire pistols for the same purpose. Shame we don't have the FCP to raise the idea, isn't it?

Grizzly 45

True,but it would be another "spew across the laws of Ireland" addendum of firearms legislation.:pac:

Sparks

Yup, but that can't be fixed without primary legislation Grizz.

yubabill1

rowa wrote: »

We are also a group that the public has little sympathy for, we kill cuddly little animals for fun and are the type of people who could potentially shoot up a school. We know the truth to be different, but what has the truth to do with politics ?

As long as we are portrayed in the media as a closed club, this will continue to be the perception.

Simply stating that anyone can apply for a firearms licence will kill any argument.

Sparks

yubabill1 wrote: »

As long as we are portrayed in the media as a closed club, this will continue to be the perception.

Simply stating that anyone can apply for a firearms licence will kill any argument.

Honestly, I've never ever come across that as a problem, ever. Hunts (as in, horses, dogs, riding down a fox, etc) might, but shooting in general doesn't.

(And if there was any simple statement that nullified anti-shooting arguments effectively, I think we'd have seen it long before you and I were ever born!)

yubabill1

Sparks wrote: »

Honestly, I've never ever come across that as a problem, ever. Hunts (as in, horses, dogs, riding down a fox, etc) might, but shooting in general doesn't.

(And if there was any simple statement that nullified anti-shooting arguments effectively, I think we'd have seen it long before you and I were ever born!)

I lived in Dublin for 7 years - some folk there think shooting is an elite pursuit where you wear tweed etc. I came across this many times.

My argument-killer was only wrt shooting being a closed club.
I am old enough to remember a time when shooting was perceived as an open healthy, worthwhile sport, with the added bonus of food as a byproduct. As a kid reared in a medium town, I also remember every house growing veg in the yard. This was the tail-end of post-emergency austerity.

rowa

yubabill1 wrote: »

I am old enough to remember a time when shooting was perceived as an open healthy, worthwhile sport, with the added bonus of food as a byproduct. As a kid reared in a medium town, I also remember every house growing veg in the yard. This was the tail-end of post-emergency austerity.

Two major turning points happened since then though yubabill. The advent of drugs, the desperate addicts who commit crimes to feed their habits and organised crime and the scum who profit from drugs , who use extreme violence to protect their interests.
Secondly, the 30 odd years of murder and mayhem in the north. This changed the publics perception of someone who had a gun from the lad who bagged a bunny or pheasant for the pot, to someone who is out to commit violent crime or wears a balaclava and green jumper.

yubabill1

rowa wrote: »

Two major turning points happened since then though yubabill. The advent of drugs, the desperate addicts who commit crimes to feed their habits and organised crime and the scum who profit from drugs , who use extreme violence to protect their interests.
Secondly, the 30 odd years of murder and mayhem in the north. This changed the publics perception of someone who had a gun from the lad who bagged a bunny or pheasant for the pot, to someone who is out to commit violent crime or wears a balaclava and green jumper.

two intractable problems, Rowa.

all we can do is point out media mistakes in perception etc as and when they occur.

Sparks

Dec 4 2013:

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)

122. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if he will report on Garda Operation Bambi; the number of persons arrested and charged as part of this operation to date broken down on an annual basis; the number of successful convictions obtained as a result of the operation; and if the operation is still active. [52130/13]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)

I am informed by the Garda authorities that Operation Bambi commenced in September 2013 following consultation between An Garda Síochána and the National Parks and Wildlife Service. The operation was set up to target individuals who are suspected of being actively involved in the commission of wildlife crime, particularly the illegal hunting of wild deer and poaching.

I am further informed that three persons were arrested in November as part of the operation and that one person was charged with firearms offences. Additional charges under the Wildlife Act 1976, as amended, are being considered. The investigation into any further offences is ongoing.

Sparks

Dec 10 2013:

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
372. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if he is reviewing Garda firearm license policy in view of a recent court case that granted licences which had previously been refused on the advice of Garda ballistic experts; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [52971/13]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)

I can inform the Deputy that my Department is examining key issues relating to firearms licensing, in conjunction with An Garda Síochána. I expect to receive recommendations as a result of this process in February 2014. That process will have regard to any relevant court cases.

Poopsticks.

Sparks

Dec 12 2013:

Anthony Lawlor (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
153. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if he will provide details regarding the granting of restricted gun licences; the guidelines provided to members of An Garda Síochána in determining if a rifle is classified as an assault rifle and therefore requires a restricted licence; his views that stricter enforcement of target shooting being restricted to approved ranges is necessary; and if he will make a statement on the matter [53500/13]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)

Section 29 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 inserted a new section 2B into the Firearms Act 1925, and provided for the Minister, in the interests of public safety and security, by order, to declare specified firearms to be restricted firearms. The Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order, S.I. 21 of 2008, as amended by S.I. 337 of 2009, defines what is a restricted firearm.

The Order declares assault rifles to be restricted and defines them as rifles capable of functioning as semi automatic firearms and as automatic firearms; or firearms that resemble such rifles. An application for a non restricted firearm certificate is made to the Superintendent of An Garda Síochána of the district where the applicant resides. However, applications for restricted firearm certificates are made to Chief Superintendents, thus highlighting the gravity with which the Commissioner regards such firearms.

Section 4 of the Firearms Act 1925, as amended, provides for the conditions subject to which all firearm certificates may be granted. A certificate for a restricted firearm has additional requirements which are that the applicant has a good and sufficient reason for requiring the firearm and he/she has demonstrated that the firearm is the only weapon that is appropriate for the purpose for which it is required.

The Commissioner’s Guidelines on firearms licensing were published on 4 September 2009 to coincide with the commencement of the new provisions governing firearms licensing legislation. The Guidelines are for the benefit of An Garda Síochána and the shooting public alike, and the document includes guidance on the licensing of restricted firearms. Individuals seeking to licence any rifle or pistol for target shooting must be a member of an authorised rifle or pistol club.

Section 33 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 provides for the authorisation of shooting ranges by members of An Garda Síochána holding the rank of Superintendent. Applications for authorisations under this Section are made by the owner/operator of the shooting range having first obtained a firearms range certificate which is issued by my Department's Firearms Range Inspector.

Strict conditions apply to individuals seeking to licence restricted firearms and where these firearms may be used.

rowa

A bit of a non-question by lawlor. Under the law target shooting has to be carried out on an approved range anyway, you would think if it was a subject he was concerned about he would have done a tiny bit of research.

homerhop

According to that every semi rifle out there is restricted so?

Jerrystevens

rowa wrote: »

A bit of a non-question by lawlor. Under the law target shooting has to be carried out on an approved range anyway, you would think if it was a subject he was concerned about he would have done a tiny bit of research.

ah but a few minutes on you tube would soon reveal that there are plenty of lads here wacking steel cutouts gongs and targets outside of 'approved' ranges maybe that's what he is wheedling at

rowa

Jerrystevens wrote: »

ah but a few minutes on you tube would soon reveal that there are plenty of lads here wacking steel cutouts gongs and targets outside of 'approved' ranges maybe that's what he is wheedling at

Fair enough, but those lads are breaking the law unless they are checking zero before hunting. If they are breaking the law then the gardai can deal with it, why does a question need to be asked in the dail ?