Parliamentary Questions

Chipboard

Written Answers

John Cregan (Limerick West, Fianna Fail)

Question 207: To ask the Minister for Justice and Law Reform if a person (details supplied) in County Limerick who is acknowledged as an official FÁS pistol training instructor will have their .9mm pistol licence renewed [43708/10]

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform; Louth, Fianna Fail)

The licensing of firearms is an operational matter for An Garda Síochána. Each application is judged on its own merits and the decision on whether, or not, to grant a firearm certificate rests solely with the issuing person. The decision of the issuing person cannot be fettered in any way and I have no role in the matter.

Sparks

Merging into the PQ thread since we just posted that there.

Sparks

Odd, I thought I'd already posted this. Hm.

Thursday, 4 November 2010

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
Question 193: To ask the Minister for Justice and Law Reform if he has received the statutory annual report of the Garda Commissioner as required by section 31 of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 detailing his review of the operation of the Firearms Acts 1925 to 2009 for the firearms licensing period ending 31 July 2010 and if so when he intends to lay a copy of such report before each House of the Oireachtas; if he has not received the Commissioner’s report, can he please inform the House of the following: when he expects to receive the report from the Garda Commissioner and the reason for the delay in the Commissioner submitting a report of statistical information which has been available since 31 July 2010. [41008/10]

Dermot Ahern (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform; Louth, Fianna Fail):
As the Deputy will appreciate, the changeover to the new licensing regime has been a significant project, involving not just legislative change and the associated project management and IT developments, but also a District level audit of all licensed firearms. I can inform the Deputy that approximately 200,000 new three year licences have been issued and that there has been a significant number of old, 1 year firearms certificates, cancelled. I expect to have the Commissioner’s report when the process of collating and assessing data is finalised. I will then take the necessary steps in relation to it.

Sparks

First of the new year, and a bit of a non-answer with just the one useful bit of data (the total figure of cases):

Wednesday 12 Jan 2011

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Question 499: To ask the Minister for Justice and Law Reform the number of judicial reviews currently before the High Court arising out of a refusal to grant firearms licences; his plans to undertake a review of existing firearms legislation or to issue further guidance to the Garda Commissioner regarding the licensing of firearms; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [48108/10]

Dermot Ahern (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform; Louth, Fianna Fail)
I can inform the Deputy that in the region of 175 judicial reviews have been lodged arising from refusals to grant firearms licences by designated persons within An Garda Síochána. As the matter is currently before the Courts, I cannot comment in any substantive way but I understand that a small number of representative test cases will be heard.
As the Deputy will appreciate firearms licensing is an operational matter for An Garda Síochána. Each application is judged on its own merits and the decision on whether, or not, to grant a firearm certificate rests solely with the issuing person. The decision of the issuing person cannot be fettered in any way and I have no role in the matter. Finally, as of now, there are no plans to review the existing firearms legislation.

rowa

yeah , 175 test cases and he scurries back under whatever rock he came from with a pension paid for by us, and will be long gone by the time this is all sorted , no accountability.

Sparks

Tuesday, 21/6/11:

Jack Wall
Question 305: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality his plans, to legalise a defence product (details supplied) that is non-toxic and non-irritant and is readily available in the UK, by adjusting the relevant legislation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16510/11]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
I am advised by the Garda authorities that such a product would be considered a firearm and so a firearm certificate would be required in order to possess it. As the Deputy may be aware, an applicant for a firearm certificate must have good reason for requiring the firearm and can only be permitted to possess, use or carry the firearm if there is no danger to the public safety or the peace. The Garda Authorities have further advised that possessing this product for personal or domestic security would not be seen as good
reason and public safety concerns would also arise.

I have, therefore, no plans to change the legislation in this regard.

Sparks

Thursday, June 23:

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
Question 22: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality with particular reference to the report of the Garda Commissioner on the operation of the new firearms licensing system which has already been laid before Dáil Éireann, if he will confirm the precise number of restricted firearms licence applications which were received in each of the 28 Garda divisions since 1 August 2009 to date in 2011. [16791/11]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
As it has not been possible to compile the information requested by the Deputy in the time available, I have asked the Garda Commissioner for a report on the matter and will write to the Deputy when it becomes available.

ace86

Sparks wrote: »

Tuesday, 21/6/11:

Jack Wall
Question 305: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality his plans, to legalise a defence product (details supplied) that is non-toxic and non-irritant and is readily available in the UK, by adjusting the relevant legislation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16510/11]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
I am advised by the Garda authorities that such a product would be considered a firearm and so a firearm certificate would be required in order to possess it. As the Deputy may be aware, an applicant for a firearm certificate must have good reason for requiring the firearm and can only be permitted to possess, use or carry the firearm if there is no danger to the public safety or the peace. The Garda Authorities have further advised that possessing this product for personal or domestic security would not be seen as good
reason and public safety concerns would also arise.

I have, therefore, no plans to change the legislation in this regard.

jesus it wasn't too long ago you had to get out of your house if some f**ker broke in and they won't change the law so people can feel safer in there homes with some form of protection which is non-lethal and its a danger to the public in your own home

Sparks

ace86 wrote: »

jesus it wasn't too long ago you had to get out of your house if some f**ker broke in

(a) Only if you think that the year 1329 was "not too long ago"; and (b) RKBA stuff is off-topic. I only posted that PQ because it's one of the first the new Minister's responded to on the Firearms Act. To further discuss the RKBA aspect... well, there's that thread in Legal Discussion and there's the entire Politics forum...

rowa

The gardai seem to be saying that anything can be called a firearm, surely for something to be a firearm it has to have a barrel , how is pepper spray , mace or a stungun a firearm ? Is this part of aherns lumping us in with criminals in his cja ?

Sparks

rowa wrote: »

how is pepper spray , mace or a stungun a firearm ?

Same way that night vision sights or sound moderators or component parts of a firearm can be a firearm - legally, under the terms of the Firearms Act:

Section 1 wrote:

(d) any type of stun gun or other weapon for causing any shock or other disablement to a person by means of electricity or any other kind of energy emission,
(e) a prohibited weapon,

And pepper spray and mace is covered under the definition of "prohibited weapon":

Section 1 wrote:

“prohibited weapon” means and includes any weapon of whatever description designed for the discharge of any noxious liquid, noxious gas or other noxious thing, and also any ammunition (whether for any such weapon or any other weapon) which contains or is designed or adapted to contain any noxious liquid, noxious gas or other noxious thing;

Is this part of aherns lumping us in with criminals in his cja ?

Well, the specific mention of the stun gun in (d) is new from McDowells CJA in '06, but the prohibited weapon definition was used to ban stun guns before that by defining electricity as a "noxious thing". And that dates back to the original 1925 Firearms Act.

hk

rowa wrote: »

The gardai seem to be saying that anything can be called a firearm, surely for something to be a firearm it has to have a barrel , how is pepper spray , mace or a stungun a firearm ? Is this part of aherns lumping us in with criminals in his cja ?

Im glad that it classed as a firearm, sure its great that women could carry it in their handbag or older people could have it in there homes etc, but once its legal and freely available it would be used by criminals and thugs as a weapon to carry out further crimes, I would also be afraid that people would use it once their blood is up to settle arguments.

As shown above a firearm does not have to have a barrel, under the definition here its an item which can discharge a projectile, even a liquid or gas projectile, and crossbows dont have a barrel

rowa

hk wrote: »

Im glad that it classed as a firearm, sure its great that women could carry it in their handbag or older people could have it in there homes etc, but once its legal and freely available it would be used by criminals and thugs as a weapon to carry out further crimes, I would also be afraid that people would use it once their blood is up to settle arguments.

As shown above a firearm does not have to have a barrel, under the definition here its an item which can discharge a projectile, even a liquid or gas projectile, and crossbows dont have a barrel

If the law made the penalties for illegal possession of this spray by the criminal classes heavy enough then then we wouldn't have to deprive the ordinary Householder of it would we ? It appears though that the government doesn't think like this , eg lowlife are killing each other in dublin/limerick with pistols , then we'd better ban/restrict the ownership of them by sports shooters.

Shane.sf

rowa wrote: »

If the law made the penalties for illegal possession of this spray by the criminal classes heavy enough then then we wouldn't have to deprive the ordinary Householder of it would we ? It appears though that the government doesn't think like this , eg lowlife are killing each other in dublin/limerick with pistols , then we'd better ban/restrict the ownership of them by sports shooters.

I can understand people wanting to use said items for protection at home but what reason would a sports shooter have for owning pepperspray or a taser etc.

Grizzly 45

hk wrote: »

Im glad that it classed as a firearm, sure its great that women could carry it in their handbag or older people could have it in there homes etc, but once its legal and freely available it would be used by criminals and thugs as a weapon to carry out further crimes, I would also be afraid that people would use it once their blood is up to settle arguments.

Personally,I'd rather be maced,than have a load of no 7 shot picked out of me,or get treated for a kitchen knife stab wound!:eek: Yes,I have been pepper sprayed too.[same thing more or less,except pepper spray is effective against doggies too,CS/Mace isnt].
A little thing you have to go thru in training in California,before they let you carry it for self defence.A mace spraying class!:rolleyes:.
It is uncomfortable,unpleasent,debilitating,but not fatal.Plenty of water/or baby oil takes care of it and after an hour you are ok.
OTOH gunshot or knife wounds are somwhat more debilitating or fatal.

As I said,kitchen knives are the more common weapons nowadays..So do we go to the stupid lengths of banning our kitchen knives from sale without a liscense or "good reason" to own one,as thugs might use...Oh they already do that..!!!Including steel toed boots,bits of wood,piping etc..:rolleyes:


can understand people wanting to use said items for protection at home but what reason would a sports shooter have for owning pepperspray or a taser etc.

Er ...the same reason anyone including a "sports shooter" would want a less leathl option to protect themselves when going about their lawful busisness in a public or private place:).Sports shooting has nothing to do with this.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sports shooting has nothing to do with this.

And on that note, the RKBA topic ends in this thread please. There are whole other forums, and other specific threads in other forums all discussing this topic in greater depth; but this forum isn't the place for it. I'd rather not lock this thread folks, it's more useful if it stays open, so please; drop the RKBA stuff. Further posts on that topic get deleted.

rowa

What i meant was sports shooters seem to be lumped in with criminals under the firearms laws.

Sparks

Tuesday, 12 July 2011:

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
Question 327: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the reason a person (details supplied) in County Carlow has been deprived of a gun licence since 2001 resulting in the loss of their business; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19816/11]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
The Garda authorities have informed my officials that in 2001 a decision was made to revoke two firearms certificates issued to this person. The local Superintendent considered the person could not, without danger to public safety and security, be permitted to have the firearms in his possession. Decisions regarding firearms licensing are an operational matter for the Gardai and I have no function in the matter. Section 15A of the Firearms Act 1925, as amended, provides for an appeal to the District Court to a decision to revoke a firearm certificate.

homerhop

Cases in carlow court last week were put off till January next year, so there goes another season for lads.

homerhop

So basically the government are washing their hands of the mess that they have made by the ministers statement.

meathshooter1

same circus different clowns so it seems

Sparks

homerhop wrote: »

So basically the government are washing their hands of the mess that they have made by the ministers statement.

Well, kindsortabutnotreally.

The Minister really doesn't have the legal authority to direct a Super to licence or not licence a firearm. That's always been the case - the Gardai and the Courts should be independent of the Minister for Justice and the Government in general; separation of powers is a pretty decent idea.

In fact, a lot of our worst problems in the past have stemmed from that seperation of powers not being maintained - the "unofficial policy" of the AGS to not licence pistols after '72, for example, was pretty much at the behest of the Minister and he shouldn't have been able to do that.

This does honestly look like the Minister giving the right answer, even if it skips over the problems that exist in the set of rules the AGS are meant to be following; and that set of rules is the Minister's responsibility.

In other words; specific cases are none of the Minister's business and shouldn't ever be; but the law in general are, and when their being broken is what causes specific problems, then things get all gray and murky in a hurry.

Chiparus

Meanwhile on the other side of the planet, the shooters party hold the balance of power.


http://www.smh.com.au/environment/conservation/libs-back-shooters-marine-bill-20110623-1ghml.html

Sparks

Tuesday, 11 October 2011

Seán Kenny (Dublin North East, Labour)
Question 379: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the number of applications received by An Garda Síochána for firearms licences for the years 2007 to date in 2011, inclusive; the licence fee for each category of firearm; the amount generated through each category of firearm licence fee; the number of applications for each category of firearm licence; and the number that was approved, pending or refused in each of these years. [28727/11]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
As it has not been possible to compile the information requested by the Deputy in the time available, I have asked the Garda Commissioner for a report on the matter and will write to the Deputy when it becomes available.

Sparks

Thursday, 20 October 2011

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Question 200: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality, in respect of each Garda division, including the five firearms certificate applications unattributed to any Garda division, if he will confirm the number of firearms certificates granted for restricted handguns; the number of firearms certificates granted for restricted rifles; the number of firearms certificates granted for crossbows; the number of refusals of firearms certificates for restricted handguns; the number of refusals of firearms certificates for restricted rifles; the number of refusals of firearms certificates for crossbows; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30651/11]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
As it has not been possible to compile the information requested by the Deputy in the time available, I have asked the Garda Commissioner for a report on the matter and will write to the Deputy when it becomes available.

homerhop

Exact same answer as the last time
They really are a waste of space.

Sparks

Sean Kenny has agreed to pass on the answer when he receives it; not heard back from John McGuinness yet (but it's only been a few hours to be fair).

homerhop

its been 3 weeks since the first time it was asked, it hardly takes that long unless someone is dragging their heels

Sparks

Tuesday, 25 October 2011

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Question 435: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if he or the Garda Commissioner will set down guidelines which will inform applicants for firearm certificates of the meaning of the description good and sufficient reasons for requiring the firearm thus assisting all concerned regarding what is required by the legislation and the process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31478/11]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
I have asked the Garda Commissioner for a report on the matter and I will write to the Deputy when it becomes available.

Sparks

And more interestingly:

Wednesday, 26 October 2011

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Question 71: To ask the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht if he will provide the list of locations in respect of the number of licences he has issued under section 42 of the Wildlife Act which provides for the shooting of wild deer outside the designated open season and allows for night time shooting from the public road with the use of high powered lamps in view of the fact that the Summary Jurisdiction (Ireland) Act 1851 prohibits discharge of a firearm from within 60 feet of a public road; if the shooting of wild deer in this situation is legal, and even though it is highly dangerous to local communities, it has the potential to promote the illegal taking of deer; the reason he continues to issue permits allowing for the culling of female deer while they still have dependant young, which results in the dependent calf or fawn suffering an horrendous death over a number of weeks; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31641/11]

Jimmy Deenihan (Minister, Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht; Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
The Wildlife Acts require that deer may only be hunted under Ministerial licence. The open season for most deer species is from 1 September to 28 February, depending on the species and gender of the deer. This reflects the conservation needs of the species concerned. Muntjac deer, which are considered an invasive species, can be hunted at any time of the year.

Deer can and do cause serious damage to crops and forestry. If a person needs to control deer outside the annual open seasons, permission under Section 42 of the Wildlife Acts is required. Permissions are issued on a case by case basis, to take action by means which can include scaring, capturing or killing.

Recently I approved new procedures for consideration of applications for permission to use lamps and vehicles for the culling of deer at night, subject to certain conditions. Permission can be obtained only where there are substantial practical difficulties with effective culling over large areas by daylight. Under the new procedures, one licence was issued in respect of a number of named individuals working for Coillte Teo, with a further licence issued in respect of a number of staff in my Department. Both Coillte and my Department manage properties with extensive private road networks. The shooting of deer from public roads does not arise in either case. It should be noted that licences issued under the Wildlife Act do not supersede any other requirement of the law in relation to the use of firearms.

I am advised that such culling, carried out with care by trained and highly experienced staff, does not create a danger for local communities. Nor does it promote illegal taking of deer.

However, I have instructed that there should be a review of the new procedures after a year in consultation with relevant stakeholders, in order to ensure their effectiveness.
In relation to culling of female deer, I have powers under the Wildlife Acts to include conditions in Section 42 permissions to prevent the culling of female deer during certain periods, and such conditions are included in many Section 42 permissions. However, it can be necessary to control female deer and dependent calves. Responsible and competent shooters ensure that culling is carried out in the most humane way possible.

The Summary Jurisdiction (Ireland) Act 1851 is a bit of a pain to find btw, the only place I could find a copy of it was in a post on boards.ie