Parliamentary Questions

Cass

Sparks wrote: »

............, the only place I could find a copy of it was in a post on boards.ie

Look no further so.:)

J.R.

Dominic Hannigan (Meath East, Labour)

Question 323:

To ask the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht if he will ban open season hunting on the curlew in November until such a time as a full and through analysis of the population trends of the curlew can be established; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31443/11]


Jimmy Deenihan (Minister, Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht; Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)

I refer the Deputy to my reply to his Question No. 278 of 18 October 2011, where I stated that my Department was reviewing the inclusion of the curlew on the shooting list in view of the steep decline in breeding curlews. Following the review and consultation process outlined in that reply, I intend to make a decision on the matter early in 2012. I do not propose to change the Open Seasons Order until I have considered my Department’s review.

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2011-10-25.1436.0&s=shooting#g1438.0.r


Just noticed - this should probably be in Parliamentary Questions Thread.

Birdnuts

There is pressure from the EU on a number of countries to take Curlew off the shooting list due to falls in populations in a number of range states due to loss of breeding habitat from drainage, afforestation etc.

Thankfully its a species very few Irish hunters bother with so I don't beleive its that much of issue at the end of the day for the sport in Ireland. I would be much more concerned about changes to the deer legislation which appears to driven by media hype and possibly the likes of ICABS and others!!:(

dCorbus

Three P.Q.'s in the Dail about the number of licences issued, etc., etc. and all in the last two months or so - What (or who) is causing these questions to be asked?

The reason I ask is that I'd prefer to know if the questions are being asked for pro- or anti- reasons. Since there has been little or no "stirring" in the general media on these topics lately (thankfully), are these questions arising from enquiries from shooters or from those who'd prefer that there were no shooters?

At least, then we can read the parliamentary questions raised in the full knowledge of from whence they arise and are derived!;)

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

Sean Kenny has agreed to pass on the answer when he receives it; not heard back from John McGuinness yet (but it's only been a few hours to be fair).

John McGuinness has also promised to send on his answers as well now.

Sparks

Missed these from July 20:

251. Deputy John McGuinness asked the Minister for Justice and Equality, further to Parliamentary Question No. 22 of 23 June 2011, the reason the statistical information sought is not readily available, in view of the fact that considerable expenditure has been incurred by the taxpayer in upgrading the PULSE system for the new firearms licensing system and the fact that the information sought must have been available to the Garda Commissioner to have enabled him to lay his report on the operation of the licensing system before Dáil Éireann; when the statistical information sought will be available to Dáil Éireann; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21577/11]

Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Alan Shatter): I can inform the Deputy that my officials have recently written to Deputy McConalogue with the information requested in his Parliamentary Question No. 22 of 23 June 2011.

At my request, the Garda Authorities have provided the following table detailing the number of applications for restricted firearms certificates received in each of the Garda Divisions from 1 August 2009 to 30 June 2011:

Division |Number of Applications
Cavan/Monaghan |158
Clare |41
Cork City |63
Cork North |74
Cork West |51
D.M.R. Eastern |97
D.M.R. North Central |5
D.M.R. Northern |108
D.M.R. South Central |26
D.M.R. Southern |108
D.M.R. Western |108
Donegal |159
Galway |58
Kerry |61
Kildare |144
Kilkenny/Carlow |64
Laois/Offaly |76
Limerick |107
Louth |55
Mayo |19
Meath |42
Not assigned Division |5
Roscommon/|Longford |26
Sligo/Leitrim |22
Tipperary |82
Waterford |22
Westmeath |57
Wexford |166
Wicklow |103
National Total |2,107

I can inform the Deputy that information on applications for firearms certificates was not required for the Garda Commissioner’s Annual Report on the operation of the Firearms Acts. Section 31 of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 requires the report to specify the number and classes of certificates and authorisations issued, rather than applied for, under the Firearms Acts.

252. Deputy John McGuinness asked the Minister for Justice and Equality the legal costs incurred by the Garda Síochána to date in defending firearms licence appeals in the District Court, or, in the absence of the precise cost; an estimate of the District Court costs to date in 2011; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21578/11]

Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Alan Shatter): As the Deputy may be aware, the District Court is the designated appeals venue under the Section 15A of the Firearms Act 1925 (as amended). It has not been possible to compile the information requested by the Deputy in the time available. I have asked the Garda Commissioner for a report on the matter and I will write to the Deputy when it becomes available.

253. Deputy John McGuinness asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if he will explain to Dáil Éireann the reason the wording of chapter 39 of the Garda code, which sets out the extent of the information to be provided to a firearms licence applicant concerning the reasons for refusal of a firearms certificate, was removed from an earlier draft of the Garda Commissioner’s guidelines which were agreed by him; if he will agree that the absence of this Garda code wording has in effect given rise to all of the firearms judicial review cases currently before the High Court; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21579/11]

Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Alan Shatter): I have asked the Garda Commissioner for a report on the matter and I will write to the Deputy when it becomes available.

254. Deputy John McGuinness asked the Minister for Justice and Equality Information on Alan Shatter Zoom on Alan Shatter the number of firearms licence applications which were lost or deemed lost by the Garda Síochána and which resulted in fresh applications having to be made by citizens; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21580/11]

Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Alan Shatter): As it has not been possible to compile the information requested by the Deputy in the time available, I have asked the Garda Commissioner for a report on the matter and will write to the Deputy when it becomes available.

255. Deputy John McGuinness asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if the internal audit unit in his Department has carried out any examination of the costs of having Chief Superintendents and other gardaí tied up attending District Court firearms licensing appeal cases and attending to the detailed preparations involved in almost 180 judicial review cases in the High Court; his plans to have such an examination undertaken; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21581/11]

Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Alan Shatter): The Internal Audit Unit in my Department has not carried out an examination of the costs associated with having Chief Superintendents and other Garda attending District Court licensing appeal cases or attending Judicial Review cases. The information requested is held by An Garda Síochána. I have requested this information from the Garda Commissioner and I will revert to the Deputy as soon as the information has been supplied.

256. Deputy John McGuinness asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if he will accept that the hunting licence endorsement was omitted from firearms licences in the firearms provisions of the Criminal Justice Act 2006, with the result that tens of thousands of sportsmen and women were unwittingly left hunting unlawfully in the 2009-10 hunting season; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21582/11]

Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Alan Shatter): I am informed that the Wildlife (Amendment) Act, 2010 included a provision which allowed all holders of valid firearm certificates issued for shotguns, between 1 August 2009 and 31 July 2012, to be deemed to be holders of a hunting licence under the Wildlife Acts for the purposes of hunting game bird and hare species during the Open Seasons. This provision was introduced to address an issue which arose following the introduction of a new computerised firearms licensing system by An Garda Síochána which is not designed to issue hunting licences.

257. Deputy John McGuinness asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if section 33 of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 makes it an offence for a person to facilitate or engage in the use of a firearm for the purposes of practical or dynamic shooting; if there have been any prosecutions effected under this section to date; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21583/11]

Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Alan Shatter): Section 33 of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous provisions) Act 2009 provides that it is an offence for a person to facilitate or engage in the use of a firearm for the purpose of practical or dynamic shooting. For the purposes of the section, “practical or dynamic shooting” means any form of activity in which firearms are used to simulate combat or combat training. I can inform the Deputy that no prosecutions have been effected under this section to date.

pedroeibar1

The same numbers (108 each) in D.M.R. Northern, Southern and Western. Weird, statistically.
P.

Sparks

Very. You'd wonder if they were all consolidated or something. Hell, if we can "lose" €3.6 billion...

landkeeper

Sparks wrote: »

Very. You'd wonder if they were all consolidated or something. Hell, if we can "lose" €3.6 billion...

perhaps they were trying to keep it in reserve to pay the overtime and court costs for all the high court appeals over the next decade

pedroeibar1

Sparks wrote: »

Very. You'd wonder if they were all consolidated or something. Hell, if we can "lose" €3.6 billion...

The really scary thing about the €3,6 billion is that very few politicians actually understood what had happened and the Dept Fin honcho basically gave the finger to the PAC. With that type of stuff going on, any changes to Firearms or Game law legislation will be very far down the list.:(
Rs
P.

Sparks

From November 29:

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
Question 312: To ask the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht his views on whether the issuing of 4,200 licences for hunters to kill deer is excessive; if he will outline the calibre of weapons licensed for such hunting; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37250/11]

Jimmy Deenihan (Minister, Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht; Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael): Licences to hunt deer are issued by my Department on an annual basis to individuals under the Wildlife Acts. The hunting season for deer is regulated by the Open Seasons Order, which prescribes the periods for the hunting of various deer species; these periods vary depending on the gender and age of the deer. The hunting of red male deer is prohibited in the county of Kerry during the open season. There is a 12-month open season for Muntjac deer, as it is considered to be an invasive species.

The type and calibre of firearms and ammunition which may be used to shoot deer species is regulated by the Wildlife Act 1976 (Firearms and Ammunition) Regulations, 1977. These Regulations stipulate that rifles with a calibre of not less than .22 calibre may be used. In recent years, deer numbers have been increasing and deer have spread to areas where they were not previously found. Consequently, I do not consider, having regard to the scientific conservation advice available to me, that the number of current deer licences is excessive.

Sparks

From December 14:

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
Question 212: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the number of firearms certificates held by persons here to hold large calibre handguns; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40152/11]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Under the Firearms Acts, and associated regulations, handguns are currently classified as either ‘Restricted’ or ‘Non-Restricted’. ‘Restricted’ Handguns are defined as all of those above .22“ calibre and also includes those of 0.22” calibre which hold more than five rounds.
I understand that the total number of Restricted Firearm Certificates issued for Restricted Handguns since 1st August 2009 to 12th December, 2011, is 443.

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
Question 213: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality his plans to introduce regulations for target shooting ranges. [40153/11]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
I can inform the Deputy that I signed the necessary Regulations, the Firearms (Authorisation of Rifle or Pistol Shooting Ranges) Regulations 2011, into law on 30 November, 2011. My Department’s Firearms Ranges Inspector has been working collaboratively with the range owners throughout the country and expects to be in a position to certify some ranges before the end of the year.

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
Question 214: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the number of firearms reported as stolen in each of the past five years. [40154/11]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
The following table shows the number of firearms recorded as stolen on PULSE for each year from 2007 - 2011 (valid to 12th December 2011).
Year|Number stolen
2011|205
2010|249
2009|350
2008|298
2007|349
Figures provided are operational and liable to change.

Chiparus

There are 443 restricted handguns out of a total 2100 applications for restricted firearms?

rowa

What was the reason a sinn fein td was asking questions about firearms and shooting sports ? Are they starting what they are at in the north ? Eg. Being anti-firearms/ shooting sports.

tonysopprano

1

Sparks

Interesting. Deputy John McGuinness has passed on the response of the Minister as promised. This referred to the following questions:
From Oct20:

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Question 200: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality, in respect of each Garda division, including the five firearms certificate applications unattributed to any Garda division, if he will confirm the number of firearms certificates granted for restricted handguns; the number of firearms certificates granted for restricted rifles; the number of firearms certificates granted for crossbows; the number of refusals of firearms certificates for restricted handguns; the number of refusals of firearms certificates for restricted rifles; the number of refusals of firearms certificates for crossbows; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30651/11]

And from Oct25:

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Question 435: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if he or the Garda Commissioner will set down guidelines which will inform applicants for firearm certificates of the meaning of the description good and sufficient reasons for requiring the firearm thus assisting all concerned regarding what is required by the legislation and the process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31478/11]

The Ministers response is:

Sparks

Deputy Sean Kenny has also passed on the response from the Minister as promised.
From Oct 11:

Seán Kenny (Dublin North East, Labour)
Question 379: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the number of applications received by An Garda Síochána for firearms licences for the years 2007 to date in 2011, inclusive; the licence fee for each category of firearm; the amount generated through each category of firearm licence fee; the number of applications for each category of firearm licence; and the number that was approved, pending or refused in each of these years. [28727/11]

The Minister's response is:









(I think there's a page missing there, I've emailed the deputy about it and I'll add it in here if/when it arrives)

edit: there was a page missing, the deputy sent it on and I've edited it in above)

Sparks

From Tuesday, 7 February 2012

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
Question 385: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the number of firearms licences held throughout the State; if he will provide a geographic breakdown of the locations at which these licences are held; the quantity of firearms held by each individual holding a licence; the type and purpose of each firearm; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6811/12]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
As it has not been possible to compile the information requested by the Deputy in the time available, I have asked the Garda Commissioner for a report on the matter and will write to the Deputy when it becomes available.

Sparks

From Tuesday, 7 February 2012

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
Question 387: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality his plans to address recent Garda behaviour in the issuing of gun licences; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6776/12]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)

I take it the Deputy is referring to a recent High Court case involving Judicial Reviews of decisions by Chief Superintendents in firearms cases. What was at issue were decisions by Chief Superintendents to refuse applications for licenses for high calibre handguns. That case was settled with no admission of wrongdoing on the part of the State but with an undertaking to consider applications afresh and give reasons to applicants where applications are turned down.

In the light of issues which arose in those proceedings I sought a report from the Garda Commissioner. I have now received a detailed interim report. The Commissioner has indicated that he shares the concern expressed by the Judge in the case about the alteration of documents after proceedings had commenced and, in the first instance, has sought an explanation as to the circumstances in which this occurred.

In the case of the evidence given by another member of An Garda Síochána, the Commissioner has indicated that, while an issue did arise in relation to the completion of parts of the application forms, he is satisfied that the applications were decided in accordance with that person’s understanding of the relevant firearms legislation, decisions were recorded in notifications to applicants, and those decisions were informed by understandable concerns of public safety in the light of the difficult situation concerning crime in his Division. The Commissioner points out that the parts of the forms in question are not a statutory requirement under the Firearms legislation and are geared towards the requirements of recording data on the PULSE system through the ticking of a number of boxes.

The Commissioner is addressing as a matter or urgency the whole process of firearms licensing and the administrative functions associated with it in the light of the outcome of those Court proceedings. The Commissioner has assured me that he, of course, accepts fully the desirability of application forms being completed fully and properly and has indicated that as part of that review he intends to remove any impediments being experienced by his Officers in achieving this. The Commissioner is to report to me again when he has completed that review.

Tragically, the House will have been reminded in recent days of the dangers which licensed firearms can pose for members of An Garda Síochána and others. For my part, I am determined to ensure that in the operation of the firearms licensing system, the question of public safety is paramount.

Sparks

Thursday, 9 February 2012

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
Question 156: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if he proposes a review of the licensing system in respect of the issue of firearms to ensure a fair and transparent process; and if in view of recent High Court proceedings, he considers the current firearms regulatory arrangement to be satisfactory; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7365/12]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)

I take it the Deputy is referring to a recent High Court case involving Judicial Reviews of decisions by Chief Superintendents in firearms cases. What was at issue were decisions by Chief Superintendents to refuse applications for licenses for high calibre handguns. That case was settled with no admission of wrongdoing on the part of the State but with an undertaking to consider applications afresh and give reasons to applicants where applications are turned down.
In the light of issues which arose in those proceedings I sought a report from the Garda Commissioner. I have now received a detailed interim report. The Commissioner has indicated that he shares the concern expressed by the Judge in the case about the alteration of documents after proceedings had commenced and, in the first instance, has sought an explanation as to the circumstances in which this occurred.
In the case of the evidence given by another member of An Garda Síochána, the Commissioner has indicated that, while an issue did arise in relation to the completion of parts of the application forms, he is satisfied that the applications were decided in accordance with that person’s understanding of the relevant firearms legislation, decisions were recorded in notifications to applicants, and those decisions were informed by understandable concerns of public safety in the light of the difficult situation concerning crime in his Division. The Commissioner points out that the parts of the forms in question are not a statutory requirement under the Firearms legislation and are geared towards the requirements of recording data on the PULSE system through the ticking of a number of boxes.
The Commissioner is addressing as a matter or urgency the whole process of firearms licensing and the administrative functions associated with it in the light of the outcome of those Court proceedings. The Commissioner has assured me that he, of course, accepts fully the desirability of application forms being completed fully and properly and has indicated that as part of that review he intends to remove any impediments being experienced by his Officers in achieving this. The Commissioner is to report to me again when he has completed that review and I will of course consider that report when it is available. Tragically, the House will have been reminded in recent days of the dangers which licensed firearms can pose for members of An Garda Síochána and others and of the dangers of firearms generally. For my part, I am determined to ensure that in the operation of the firearms licensing system, the question of public safety is paramount.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
Question 157: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if he will confirm that the Garda Commissioner completed his annual review of the operations of the Firearms Act, 1925 to 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7366/12]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
I understand that the Annual Review the Deputy is referring to is currently being compiled by An Garda Síochána and I expect to receive it in due course.

tac foley

Sparks wrote: »

From Tuesday, 7 February 2012

I find it very interesting that the Sinn Fein mouthpiece wants to know where all the guns are and who has them.

Now what possible use could a future SF government make of that information? [Rhetorical question, BTW]

If you really don't know, then there's nothing that I can suggest that might help you out.

Not even the British government has a tied-together list of gun-owners in the UK, and whatever you may think of British politicans, not one of them has ever had the cheek to ask.

Here, all you can do is to find out how many licensed firearms there are in any particular county. The names and addresses of the owners is deemed to be privileged information and subject to the provisions of the Freedom of Information acts, and are safeguarded under the European Charters for Civil Liberties/Human Rights.

Has not the government of the Republic of Ireland signed up to the very same Charters? Or is SF somehow exempt?

On the other paw, if Mr Shatter makes the Gardaí information public knowledge - and spouting it in the Daíl would make it so - he could be letting himself in for all kinds of serious grief from the legal owners of firearms who rightly would feel VERY vulnerable to the likely action of criminals.

My next door neighbour did not find out for twelve years that I was a shooting enthusiast, and to tell the truth, although I am not ashamed of my sport, nor do I tell anybody I don't know about my interest in it.

Sure, all of you know that I'm a shooter, but where I live, well, that's another thing altogether.

tac

Sparks

Thursday, 16 February 2012

Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
Question 193: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality in the context of a recent judgment of the High Court concerning a legal challenge against the refusal of restrictive firearms, if he will indicate that if persons who always held such a firearms licence and who were refused in the past two to three years or so the renewal of such application, will now have their refusal reviewed in the context of their application, whereby it appears that such refusals were being made on a blanket basis without adequate reasons being given; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9113/12]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
I understand that the cases referred to by the Deputy were settled and there was, in fact, no judgment delivered by the Court.

It was agreed, as part of the settlement, that any other person, eligible to apply for a Firearm Certificate in respect of a Restricted Firearm, who had previously been refused by the Granting Authority (Chief Superintendent) and which refusal has not been the subject of an appeal to the District Court (as outlined below) may re-submit an application for a Firearm Certificate in respect of a Restricted Firearm, for consideration by the Granting Authority, in accordance with law.

This category has been further clarified, to refer to two (2) specific categories of applicant :

• Applicants who have had their application for a Firearm Certificate, in respect of a Restricted Firearm, refused and have not commenced an appeal to the District Court in respect of this decision; and
• Applicants who have had their application for a Firearm Certificate, in respect of a Restricted Firearm, refused and have commenced proceedings appealing this decision before the District Court but have discontinued such appeal proceedings.

Sparks

It's not quite a question, but.

Tuesday, 13 March 2012
Seanad Éireann Debate
Vol. 214 No. 4

Senator Pat O’Neill: I wish to share time with Senator Paschal Mooney.

An Cathaoirleach: Is that agreed? Agreed.

Senator Pat O’Neill: I thank the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, for coming to the Seanad to deal with this issue and know he will pass on my comments to the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter.

It is common knowledge that the firearms licensing system is problematic. The number of challenges in both the High Court and the District Court, in which over 95% of decisions have gone against the Garda, bears testament to this. I am particularly concerned about the remarks of Judge Hedigan on these cases which have highlighted the fact that the system cannot continue and needs to be reviewed.

The National Association of Regional Game Councils, or the NARGC as it is commonly known, which supported these cases was the strongest advocate of the new firearms legislation when it was introduced in 2009 and played a pivotal role in the consultation process, including chairing the most important user group, the Firearms Consultative Panel. It warned of deficiencies in the administration of the system, including the absence of a statutory declaration under the wildlife Acts on the licence application form to give effect to the hunting licence endorsement on the firearms licence, but its warnings were ignored. This resulted in an unnecessary High Court challenge which had the effect of forcing the State to amend the wildlife Acts on a temporary basis to get over a legal lacuna and the costs were paid for by the taxpayer.

Licenses will be renewed again in the coming months and we will be faced with this problem yet again because, thus far, no permanent solution has been suggested. In recent days the Garda Commissioner has issued an amended licence application form, but it still does not address the issue of the absence of a statutory declaration. As a result, the NARGC feels unable to continue its support for the system and the recent court cases are the consequence.

The NARGC is a largely rural-based organisation which has a long track record of responsible ownership of sporting firearms and setting high standards and organising educational programmes. In fact, it was one of the first organised sports shooters’ organisations in the State, providing structured education in the shooting disciplines since its foundation in 1968. One only has to visit its website to see this. As a rural Senator and farmer, I am very aware of how important game and shooting clubs and game hunting are to rural people and of how important the NARGC is in parishes as the national representative association. I am also aware that it is vital for the Garda to enjoy the confidence and support of rural communities and that anything which threatens this must be avoided. It is, therefore, lamentable that the NARGC which has always supported the rule of law should find it necessary to sue the Garda to have its concerns listened to and dealt with. In the vast majority of cases the courts have agreed with the NARGC. Why is this the case? Clearly, it is a knowledgeable and responsible association; why, therefore, is the State not listening to it? It obviously has a huge contribution to make and must be part of the solution. The courts seem to believe it is certainly not the problem.

The State would do well to pay attention to what the NARGC has to say when a problem arises, rather than trying to defend cases which are indefensible, with serious cost implications for the taxpayer, as we have witnessed in the aforementioned cases. Do we have so much money to waste? Any reading of the court transcripts of the Garda evidence and Judge Hedigan’s interventions in the High Court confirms beyond argument that gardaí were guilty of wrongdoing. Statements to the Oireachtas that cases were settled without admission of wrongdoing serve only to mislead and alienate the very people who were victims of the wrongdoing.

I have met the leaders of the NARGC and I am satisfied that their only wish is to have a firearms licensing system in place which is secure, fair, transparent and free of prejudice and which is administered in a consistent manner, with due regard for the provisions of the legislation as enacted by the Oireachtas. The State maintains it always wishes to work with stakeholders. It cannot be only when stakeholders are in agreement with the State on all matters. I will conclude by urging the Minister to ask the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, to engage with the National Association of Regional Game Councils, NARGC, as a matter of urgency to bring to a conclusion what is an unsatisfactory state of affairs on many fronts.

Senator Paschal Mooney: I am grateful to my colleague, Senator O’Neill, for allowing me to participate in this debate because he and I are nominees of the National Association of Regional Game Councils in Seanad Éireann and therefore have an ongoing interest in this particular issue. I endorse everything Senator O’Neill said and my only additional contribution is to note this ongoing and unresolved problem has existed for a number of years. As Senator O’Neill noted, the previous Administration introduced what in my opinion and that of the NARGC was a stopgap measure in respect of the existing licences to address a lacuna in the law. I believe this will run out in 2013 or 2014.

Senator Pat O’Neill: It will run out next October.

Senator Paschal Mooney: Therefore, the Government must address this issue anyway. This obligation has been further enhanced, as Senator O’Neill has noted, by the recent court case which was indefensible and the judge’s judgment was clear in this regard. However, the simple message that has been put forward by Senator O’Neill and the council is to engage in consultation with those who are engaged in this process and who have expertise in this regard. They have no agenda other than to ensure the law is straightened out and they can continue to operate within the law, as they have always done.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn: I thank both Senators for raising this matter on the Adjournment. I am speaking on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, who regrets he is unable to be present due to other business.

It is understood that the Senators are referring to a recent High Court case involving judicial reviews of decisions by chief superintendents in firearms cases. What was at issue were decisions by chief superintendents to refuse applications for licences for high-calibre handguns. That case was settled with no admission of wrongdoing on the part of the State and with an undertaking to consider applications afresh and give reasons to applicants where applications are turned down.

It is important to state the vast majority of licensed firearms holders have encountered no problems with the new licensing regime. The number of cases involved in this regard is 168, which constitutes a tiny minority of firearms licence applications. In general terms, Members may recall that for more than 30 years prior to 2004, all handguns effectively were banned in this jurisdiction. Following a series of judicial decisions, however, almost 2,000 handguns were licensed between 2004 and 2008. This situation did not come to pass as a result of a decision by the Oireachtas. The return of handguns also gave rise to new forms of target shooting, which is a cause of concern to the Garda Commissioner. It is worth noting that the use of handguns is illegal for hunting under the Wildlife Acts and as they are not licensed for personal protection in the State, there is a very limited potential use for them.

The Minister is particularly conscious of Mr. Justice Hedigan’s remarks that:

The licensing of powerful rifles and handguns is a matter of the gravest [concern]. The Oireachtas has legislated for the licensing of such...dangerous weaponry on a restricted basis. The Commissioner and, through designation by him, chief superintendents, have been charged with a heavy responsibility of decision as to who should be given such restricted arms licences. It is a grave responsibility because the consequences of a mistake may be devastating.

The judge went on to state:

These courts, let it be quite clear, like the Garda Síochána, know better than anyone else in this country the tragic and devastating consequences of gun crime. The strictest regulation of dangerous weaponry is essential if society is to be spared the menace of proliferating gun crime.

The Minister, Deputy Shatter, shares the judge’s views on this matter.

The Oireachtas in the Criminal Justice Act 2006 made the Commissioner responsible for licensing restricted firearms while the licensing of non-restricted firearms is a matter for superintendents. The Commissioner, by delegating his functions for licensing restricted firearms to chief superintendents, shows the importance he places on regulating this dangerous weaponry. At present, a chief superintendent is charged with making a decision on a restricted firearms certificate and he or she cannot be subject to directions in respect of how this discretion is exercised. Members of An Garda Síochána are the people best placed to make decisions on firearms licensing and it would be helpful if the NARGC came to terms with that reality. It must be stated frankly that recent intemperate material produced by that association undermines any requests which it makes for a spirit of co-operation in this area. In light of such issues, which arose in the proceedings referred to by Senator O’Neill, the Minister sought a report from the Garda Commissioner. The Minister has received an interim report on the matter and awaits a full report from the Garda Commissioner.

The Commissioner has indicated he shares the concern expressed by the judge in the case about the alteration of documents after proceedings had commenced. In the case of the evidence given by another member of An Garda Síochána, the Commissioner has indicated that, while an issue did arise regarding the completion of parts of the application forms, he is satisfied the applications were decided in accordance with that person’s understanding of the relevant firearms legislation, decisions were recorded in notifications to applicants, and those decisions were informed by understandable concerns of public safety in light of the difficult position concerning crime in his division. The Commissioner points out that the parts of the forms in question are not a statutory requirement under the firearms legislation and are geared towards the requirements of recording data on the PULSE system through the ticking of a number of boxes. The Commissioner is addressing as a matter of urgency the whole process of firearms licensing and the administrative functions associated with it in light of the outcome of those court proceedings and will report to the Minister again when he has completed that review.

Tragically, Members will have been reminded in recent weeks of the dangers which licensed firearms can pose for members of An Garda Síochána and others and of the dangers of firearms generally. For his part, the Minister is determined to ensure that in the operation of the firearms licensing system, the question of public safety is paramount.

Senator Pat O’Neill: I accept the Minister’s comments. As for the 168 cases that were brought before the High Court and Mr. Justice Hedigan, one should note these were not new applications but pertained to people who had held handguns and who were renewing their licences. The fact they were forced to bring these cases means the licensing system does not appear to be working. As I noted earlier, 95% of these cases have been upheld by the courts. While I do not suggest the Garda is always wrong, the point the NARGC and I are making is the licensing system must be examined. At present, 120 people in the country make the decisions in this regard. In other words, in each Garda district, the Commissioner, assistant commissioners and superintendents make such decisions, whereas I propose that consideration be given to a centralised licensing system. I note such a system is in operation in Northern Ireland and while all Members are aware of the problems experienced there with regard to guns, they were not caused by licensed guns and one should be worried about unlicensed guns instead.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn: I will reply briefly to both Senators and will respond in particular to the comments just made by Senator O’Neill. I will speak personally to the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, on this matter. I will refer in particular to the last point he raised, which is that consistency and a single point of licensing might obviate some of the problems experienced.

Senator Pat O’Neill: It also would free up gardaí.

Sparks

Again, not quite a question, but...

Tuesday, 27 March 2012

Topical Issue Debate - Control of Firearms
Deputy Dan Neville: I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the opportunity to raise this issue and the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, for taking it, which is very well known to the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter. A problem has arisen with firearms licensing system. There have been a number of challenges by individuals in the District Court and the High Court. In 95% of the challenges, the decision went against the State. We are looking towards a solution. Mr. Justice Hedigan stated that we cannot continue with the system and that it clearly needs review.

The National Association of Regional Game Councils supported these cases in court despite being the strongest advocate of the new firearms legislation when it was introduced in 2009. The National Association of Regional Game Councils played a pivotal role in the consultation process, including chairing the most important user group of the Minister’s firearms consultative panel. The National Association of Regional Game Councils recognises and supports the idea that dangerous weaponry should be licensed on a restricted basis. There is an onus on the State to apply its responsibility to those who are given such restricted arms licences. The National Association of Regional Game Councils recognises the State’s grave responsibility in this area because of the consequences of making a mistake as regards the allocation of licences.

The firearms consultative panel warned of deficiencies in the administration of the system but its warnings were ignored. Its concerns included the absence of a statutory declaration under the Wildlife Act on the licence application form to give effect to the hunting licence endorsement of the firearms licence. Ignoring this resulted in an unnecessary High Court challenge, which had the effect of forcing the State to amend the Wildlife Act on a temporary basis. Licences will be renewed in the coming months and the State will face this problem because a permanent solution has not been found.

The Garda Commissioner issued an amended licence application form, which does not address the absence of the statutory declaration. As a result of these issues, the National Association of Regional Game Councils feels unable to continue to support the licensing system and the recent court cases are a consequence of this. It states that we must examine the benefit of a centralised licensing system. As chief superintendents administer the system, there are 150 different interpretations of the regulations. The interpretations are genuine but subjective, which causes grievances. Applicants see inconsistency as unfair and the test of fairness is consistency across the board.

Minister of State at the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation (Deputy John Perry): I thank Deputy Neville for raising this matter. I am speaking on behalf of the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, who regrets he is unable to be present due to other business.

Regarding the hunting licence issues the Deputy refers to, the Minister understands from his colleague, the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, that the relevant provisions of the Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2010, which are due to lapse on 31 July 2012, will be continued with on an interim basis. The Act will be amended to give effect to this decision in due course, pending a major review of the Wildlife Acts which is promised under the National Biodiversity Plan 2011-2016.

The High Court case settlement the Deputy refers to involved judicial reviews of decisions by chief superintendents in firearms licensing cases where applications for licenses for high calibre handguns were refused. The case was settled with an undertaking to consider applications afresh and give reasons to applicants where applications are turned down.

Contrary to the picture the National Association of Regional Game Councils, NARGC, may try to paint, the Minister has asked me to highlight that the vast majority of licensed firearms holders have encountered no problems with the new licensing regime and, therefore, I disagree with the Deputy’s assertion. In general terms, the House may recall that for more than 30 years prior to 2004 all handguns were effectively banned in this jurisdiction. Following a series of judicial decisions, however, almost 2,000 handguns were licensed between 2004 and 2008.

This situation did not come to pass as a result of a decision by the Oireachtas. The return of handguns also gave rise to new forms of target shooting which are a cause of concern to the Garda Commissioner. It is also worth noting that the use of handguns is illegal for hunting under the Wildlife Acts, nor are they licensed for personal protection in the State, and therefore there is a very limited potential use for them. The Minister is conscious of Mr. Justice Hedigan’s remarks that “The licensing of powerful handguns and rifles is a matter of the gravest nature” and that “The strictest regulation of dangerous weaponry is essential if society is to be spared the menace of proliferating gun crime”.

The reality is that An Garda Síochána are the people best placed to make decisions on firearms licensing and it would be helpful if the NARGC came to terms with that reality. It has to be said, frankly, that the intemperate material produced by that association undermines any requests they make for a spirit of co-operation in this area. On a point of clarification, the Minister would like to point out to the Deputy that the NARGC was but one of a number of shooting groups on the Firearms Consultative Panel and did not chair it, as he stated. It was chaired by a departmental official.

The Minister expects to receive a full report from the Garda Commissioner in the near future on the issues which arose in the High Court cases. The Commissioner has indicated that he shares the concern expressed by the judge but has indicated also that he is satisfied that the applications were decided upon in accordance with the decision maker’s understanding of the relevant firearms legislation, that decisions were recorded in notifications to applicants, and that those decisions were informed by understandable concerns of public safety.

Tragically, the House will have been reminded in recent weeks of the dangers licensed firearms can pose for members of An Garda Síochána and others and of the dangers of firearms generally. For his part the Minister is determined to ensure that in the operation of the firearms licensing system, the question of public safety is paramount.

Deputy Dan Neville: I put it to the Minister that the National Association of Regional Game Councils is a very knowledgeable and responsible association. I have spoken with the leaders of the association and I am satisfied that they only wish to have a firearms licensing system which is secure, fair, transparent, free of prejudice and administered in a consistent manner with due regard for the provisions of the legislation as enacted by the Oireachtas, which it fully supports. It believes this can be achieved by a centralised system with independent oversight and a non-judicial system of appeal. I put it to the Minister that the courts of law should be the last source of the appeal which should be in place.

The current system, as stated by Mr. Justice Hedigan, is flawed and does not work. I suggest that all those involved - the Ministers, the Department, the Garda and the representative of the game councils - should sit down together and rather than talk at a distance come to an agreement because until they sit down and discuss all aspects of it and examine the different opinions, we will not have a resolution to this issue. Certain people who are involved in the area of competition feel very strongly about the situation. They may be in the minority but they are an important group as well.

Deputy John Perry: On a point of clarification, the Minister has stated that there was a consultative panel, and obviously it is important that collaboration and dialogue would take place.

I thank the Deputy for providing me with an opportunity to respond. As I have already mentioned, the Minister awaits a report from the Garda Commissioner on the settlement of the cases which were before the High Court and therefore it is not possible for me to comment in any meaningful way on that aspect of the debate but I will relay

---

Deputy Dan Neville: When is that due?

Deputy John Perry: The Minister, Deputy Shatter, will revert to the Deputy on that point.

On the hunting issue, I will impress upon the Minister, Deputy Deenihan, the need to have a timely resolution to this matter in time for the next hunting season. I am sure the Deputy will welcome the Minister’s commitment to conduct a major review of the Wildlife Acts, which I believe will be comprehensive, promised under the National Biodiversity Plan 2011-2016. I assure Deputy Neville that I will bring the points raised by him to the attention of the Minister, Deputy Shatter, for direct reply to him.

Sparks

Tuesday, 27 March 2012

Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
Question 456: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality his views on evidence furnished at a recent High Court case (details supplied); the actions he proposes to take regarding the operation of the current firearms licensing system as a result; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16496/12]

Eoghan Murphy (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
Question 473: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if he has considered a matter (details supplied) regarding firearms licensing. [16816/12]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
I propose to take Questions Nos. 456 and 473 together.

I take it the Deputies are referring to a recent High Court case involving Judicial Reviews of decisions by Chief Superintendents in firearms cases. What was at issue were decisions by Chief Superintendents to refuse applications for licences for high calibre handguns. That case was settled with no admission of wrongdoing on the part of the State but with an undertaking to consider applications afresh and give reasons to applicants where applications are turned down.

In an interim report which I received from the Garda Commissioner he indicated that he was reviewing certain aspects of the operation of the firearms licensing system and I await a further report from him.

Tragically, the House will have been reminded in recent weeks of the dangers which licensed firearms can pose for members of An Garda Síochána and others and of the dangers of firearms generally. For my part, I am determined to ensure that in the operation of the firearms licensing system, the question of public safety is paramount.

tac foley

'Tragically, the House will have been reminded in recent weeks of the dangers which licensed firearms can pose for members of An Garda Síochána and others and of the dangers of firearms generally. For my part, I am determined to ensure that in the operation of the firearms licensing system, the question of public safety is paramount.'
Mr Shatter

And meanwhile, more than 233,000 OTHER licensed firearms owners went about their lawful business with no crime having been committed...

tac

Sparks

tac foley wrote: »

And meanwhile, more than 233,000 OTHER licensed firearms owners went about their lawful business with no crime having been committed...

I think it might be considered a subtle hint (as in, "keep pushing lads, and you know which way we'll go..."). There are about 200,000 or so licenced firearms owners in Ireland; there are about 4.5 million people. If the Minister went to shut us down tomorrow, and every single shooter in Ireland decided they'd never vote for him again, it still wouldn't kick him out of office or prevent his reelection on its own; and every political analyst on his staff knows it and every Minister who's ever sat in that seat has known it.

Why we don't, is something of a mystery to me.

rowa

tac foley wrote: »

'Tragically, the House will have been reminded in recent weeks of the dangers which licensed firearms can pose for members of An Garda Síochána and others and of the dangers of firearms generally. For my part, I am determined to ensure that in the operation of the firearms licensing system, the question of public safety is paramount.'
Mr Shatter

And meanwhile, more than 233,000 OTHER licensed firearms owners went about their lawful business with no crime having been committed...

tac

"when we're good you never remember , when we're bad you never forget"

Sparks

Tuesday, 22 May 2012

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Question 511: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if, in view of the growth in the use of jamming devices to neutralise the effectiveness of alarms supported by a GSM mobile telephone services back up signalling facility, any changes are proposed to the regulations governing the securing of fire arms such as a change to encourage and or permit the use of long range radio telemetry which is immune to jamming devices; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24946/12]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)
As the Deputy may be aware, the Firearms (Secure Accommodation) Regulations, S.I. 307 of 2009, which came into force in August 2009, is the regulation governing the secure storage of firearms in the home. These Regulations set out the minimum security standards outlined in relation to the provision of secure accommodation for those firearms.

The regulations provide that where three or more restricted firearms, or six or more firearms in total are stored together, then an intruder alarm system, which complies with I.S. EN 50131, or an equivalent standard approved by the Garda Commissioner, is required. This 50131 standard requires that the risk of tampering with alarm systems is minimised and the monitoring of such alarms is supported by GSM telephone service back up.

As per these Regulations, the Garda Commissioner is in a position to approve an equivalent standard for alarms, including any alternatives to the current approved standard. Therefore any changes to regulation of this area will be considered following advice from the Garda Commissioner. I have asked the Garda Commissioner to keep the matter under review. If the Deputy has any specific instances of the theft of firearms which she wishes me to look into I will gladly raise the matter with the Garda Commissioner.

Furthermore, the Private Security Authority (PSA), an independent body under the aegis of my Department, is responsible for the regulation and licensing of the security industry in Ireland. As part of its licensing requirements, the PSA prescribes that all intruder alarms are installed in accordance with the requirements of the standard IS EN 50131. The PSA is aware that the electronic security industry is working to combat the use of GSM technology to tamper with alarm monitoring systems and will continue to review the standards as is necessary to ensure that best practice is applied to all alarm installations.

Sparks

Thursday, 21 June 2012

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail):
Question 117: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality further to Parliamentary Question No. 200 of the 20 October 2011, if he will now respond in view of the fact that the civil proceedings have been dealt with; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30208/12]

Alan Shatter (Minister, Department of Justice, Equality and Defence; Dublin South, Fine Gael)

I have requested a report from the Garda authorities in relation to the matter referred to by the Deputy. I will contact the Deputy again when the report is to hand.

This PQ related to this earlier question and response from the Minister.