Now it's official: "Ireland needs a new right wing party".

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992097#Comment_121992097

I'm sorry, you're just citing incorrect information here. You might want to look at this, which details where health spending actually goes in reality.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992061#Comment_121992061

Please do explain it.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992078#Comment_121992078

Yes, that's it exactly.

"Cancel culture" is another side of it, another thing that's been inherited from American politics.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992114#Comment_121992114

Shouldn't you be getting ready for your trial next week? I'll be honest, I don't have a great deal of faith in your latest legal team. 😀

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992124#Comment_121992124

It's no issue when you have a stable genius brain as big as mine.

Person, woman, man, camera, TV. Let's see you try it

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992107#Comment_121992107

You need to deal with the world as it is, not as you would like it to be.

In the great clash of ideologies in the last century, capitalism and democracy won. Communism and autocracy lost.

This thread is about how we in Ireland now make political choices about that world…but we can't wind the clock back.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992069#Comment_121992069

It's the states insistence on over the top building standards which has led to soaring build costs , no reason why for example social housing needs to be the same spec as private across the board

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992123#Comment_121992123

Social media has a lot to answer for, doesn't it? No Twitter, No Trump (and probably no Brexit either).

Sloganeering has replaced actual debate if we think calling someone 'wokeist' wins us points, or more likely 'likes'.

pixelburp

Handy thing about PR as a voting method, it tends to be the fairest way to ensure that the percentage of the vote reflects the percentage of the Dáil's membership; it's not perfect or 1:1 but it has meant that smaller parties tend to represented where other systems like FPTP would never see those voters' choices reflected in the makeup of our government. 10% of the vote should mean about 10% of TDs etc. etc.

Point being, as it always remains, if the popular mood wanted some woolly defined "right wing" party, one would exist because or system is such that it allows those views to not only exist - but get into our Lower House. All attempts at more hardened right-leaning parties have failed; what does that mean?

An opinion piece is no more representative of the popular mood than the suggestion a few years back the National Party had "entered the mainstream" - as a thread around these parts once claimed.

And we have a right wing government; obviously just not "right wing enough" and … well. That's life. I'd like a more left-wing government but I ain't gonna cry conspiracy about it, invent the Silent Majority or import American Culture War anxiety either..

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992168#Comment_121992168

I like to think that the absence of extremes in Irish politics says something profoundly positive about our society and culture. Long may it stay that way.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992078#Comment_121992078

Intersectionality comes into play here.

For those that don't know, it's the fact that there can be multiple factors that compete to lift up or put down people.

Stuff like sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia etc are all important. They affect peoples lives. They are bad. But that doesn't mean that poverty isn't bad. That doesn't mean that the economy doesn't matter. In a lot of ways, wealth is the single biggest contributing factor to someones well being.

And where you see the interaction between them, you can see it can compound issues. For example, someone of a different race may experience more or less impact from racism depending on how little/much money they have.

The thing is it all matters. And just because we call out stuff that affects some minorities, doesn't mean that we shouldn't also focus on issues that affect far more. And just because we call out the stuff that affects a lot of people, doesn't mean that we should forget about the stuff that affects minorities.

aidanodr

Surely the issue is this across the world ( inc Ireland? ) .. we have POLARISATION created by Politics being Far Left and Far right ( significantly assisted by that part of the Internet called Social Media ). No one really in the centre / Centre left or Right anymore?

Then regardless of whether far left or far right or wherever you are on the political spectrum, we no longer engage with the opposite, have a good argument and then go down to the pub after for a few pints together. In other words, agree to disagree and respect each others POV.

Oh and everything now is about MY Truth, not THE Truth

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992198#Comment_121992198

So…the 'greatest good, for the greatest number'?

I'd like to think that our society has become far more equal over the last few decades. And accepting of diversity.

Are we perfect? Of course not, the perfect society or country doesn't exist and never will.

But, in the context of this thread, if I had to weight what was more important between say, transgender rights and continuing US FDI into Ireland, I'm always going to say the latter - because that is the tide that lifts all our boats. And I'll vote for a party that prioritises that too.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992206#Comment_121992206

Well actually, our current government (and indeed the last one too) is a perfect example of centralism. So we may be silly enough to squabble in the pub for what you describe above but it sure as hell isn't what we actually vote for.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992206#Comment_121992206

Most people are in the centre. In Ireland in particular, it is no coincidence that we keep getting coalition governments that drift to the centre. The "silent majority" is the centre, despite what those on the right would claim.

The thing is that most people who care enough about politics to discuss it publicly or in the pub tend to have stronger views one way or the other, rather than bland middle-of-the-road opinions.

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992217#Comment_121992217

Mmm .. I would see the current gov made up of parties who think they are centre but in actual fact are pretty farther to the left policy wise? And spending alot of time dealing with Social issues vs bread and butter issues like housing, health etc etc. My view, maybe Im wrong or seeing it wrong?

For the record my politics would be centre .. part of the silent majority as @awec mentioned

Wanderer78

definitely demand there, has been for some time to, many very ignorant folks around here, who have a serious inability to see bigger pictures, and even attempt to try understand complex social problems, so yes, theres definitely enough demand there for that….

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992211#Comment_121992211

It shouldn't be an either/or decision.

We're quite capable of thinking of for example gay rights and inviting foreign investment at the same time. It's the reason we have different government departments. The idea that minority rights should come second to the economy is a bit silly.

And if there was a clash, say Saudi will only invest billions if we make homosexuality illegal, then I'd say that the FDI comes second. We can always look for other investors.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992234#Comment_121992234

Of the current government, I think the only party that has been successful at getting its policy objectives somewhat realised is the Greens. And they should be congratulated for that (isn't that after all why we vote for a particular party). I don't really know what FF and FG are trying to achieve in policy terms any more beyond some kind of 'steady as she goes' approach.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992242#Comment_121992242

Isn't gay rights a 'solved problem'? (I'm not in way trying to trivialise anything)

I take your point and agree. Our values should be our values. I'm more talking about our priorities.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992234#Comment_121992234

I'd agree. Obsessing over hate speech and pointless referendums while tourists are being mutilated by thugs with 100+ convictions in Temple Bar. Still inviting the world's destitute to come and live here while public spaces are becoming tent cities.

scottser

'The Wokerati'.

Anybody who uses that term should be shot with balls of their own shite, as should anybody who thinks we need more of anything right wing.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992263#Comment_121992263

…and why do folks engage in such crimes?

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992260#Comment_121992260

Socially gay rights is probably not a solved problem, I am sure plenty of gay people still suffer discrimination or abuse.

But politically it is done. There's no more meat on that bone. In general, in terms of all the identity / rights related issues the electorate has had it's fill, I don't think any parties will have these issues too high on the agenda in the upcoming election. The recent referendum case in point.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992277#Comment_121992277

Yes, i think we agree here.

There will always be idiots who are phobic and\or abusive but I see that as more of a social problem (and to some extent an educational one) but not one to expend vast amounts of political capital on.

Gay rights exist, they are enshrined in the books of law. This is a good thing. If anyone breaks those laws, throw the book at them by all means.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992260#Comment_121992260

Yes and no. There's still some hate crime. We should still be campaigning against it. And educating against it. Homophobia will only disappear over time as more people become accepting of LGBT+ people.

The problem is that if you add on some stuff about inclusion to a school curriculum, then there's massive pushback.

And yes, we should have priorities. I'd say housing is the biggest single issue at the moment. It affects everyone who isn't loaded. After that would be the health service. I'm sure some people would say they should be swapped, and I won't argue with them. Either way, they'd still be the two more important issues. However, even if we assume we know what the solutions to both are, it will still take billions to solve both.

Now do I believe we should be trying to fix the housing crises and combat homophobia? yes. Do I think we should invest the same amount of money in both? No. :)

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992277#Comment_121992277

Absolutely. For context, I went on a LGBT mate's stag in Ireland recently. We bumped into someone they knew but hadn't seen in some time and they got very, very anxious about telling them about their being LGBT.

It's not done. Not remotely. I need only look at this place to see how far we still have to go.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992317#Comment_121992317

critical issues such as housing and health care needed to be tackled equally together, as both issues are causing significant social problems, truly focusing on one over the other for sometime will simply allow the other to keep spiraling out of control, resulting in even far more complex issues in the future, to the point, it maybe impossible to resolve

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992211#Comment_121992211

Bread and butter issues will always trump luxury beliefs for the vast majority of voters

The preoccupation by this government with luxury beliefs at the expense of core issues is at the heart of public disillusionment with politicians

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992327#Comment_121992327

Why not just say a gay wedding?, LGBTQ is an ideological term which encompasses a particular political worldview