Now it's official: "Ireland needs a new right wing party".

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992263#Comment_121992263

What you are suggesting here is Law & Order and Emigration?

Just two bread and butter issues perhaps, is it seen as the case amongst the silent majority?

I would add DEFENCE of the nation ( which BTW should not be lumped in with Neutrality, A neutral nation also has a duty to defend itself ). And yes housing .. which I dont think is an easy economist trope of supply & demand .. its the crazy unaffordable prices of property that is the issue, not created by lack of supply in my view because regardless of supply the prices just keep going north.

What ever of law & order which in some way is being hindered by lack of Garda numbers I imagine AND Emigration which maybe hindered some what by EU policy & lack of past govs wanting to deal with it going way back .. both need to be addressed in a fair manner. How do you get more Garda recruited? Same Q how do we get more Defence Forces members recruited? Pretty much ignored by current & past govs?

Emigration is going to be a huge thing going forward and not for us alone. Climate change, whether you think its man made or a natural cycle, is going to play a huge part in migrant flows from the Equatorial regions and parts of Southern Europe itself up to Northern Europe inc Ireland. Purely because as we approach constant 40/45 degree+ in Equatorial regions, hitting 50c .. human bodies just cannot live in these temps sustained.

Also add WAR, maybe caused by climate change OR as we see now Russia war in Ukraine. Migration west from Ukraine ( 40m ) and other East Europe countries possibly. We cannot stick our heads in the sand with regards all this and just say Ireland is Full. What should happen and most likely will happen is all this will have to be dealt with via a universal EU comprehensive emigration policy for all members to share this "burden".

All the above is not really being dealt with by the current government or past govs BUT is coming down the line. Lack of proper Gov engagement in this is creating a vacuum that is and will be filled by others with far harder views.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992267#Comment_121992267

Oh for God's sake. You're not seriously going to start banging the drum about the poor misunderstood thugs and their deprived backgrounds are you? We've had thirty odd years of the "hug a thug" approach to crime and look where it's got us. I grew up in a house that was one step above a tenement. A lot of my friends grew up in state built public housing that looked like luxury apartments to me. We have the most generous welfare system in the world in this country so spare me the poor deprived kids nonsense. In fact it's our cradle to grave welfare system that has removed the incentive to work and meant that we now have whole generations of welfare dependent familes who expect DE GUVVMENT to provide for their every need. The upshot of this is generations of feral kids who have no respect for anything and see thuggery as a viable career option.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992327#Comment_121992327

but that sounds like a social problem rather than a political one (do we really expect the Government to somehow manage these social interactions?)?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992378#Comment_121992378

…and again, more thick as sh1t bullsh1t, why would anyone bother engaging in this type of fcuking ignorance!

Mod

Warned for this post

Everlong1

'The Wokerati'.

Anybody who uses that term should be shot with balls of their own shite, as should anybody who thinks we need more of anything right wing.

Thank you for your considered and incisive post, which I'm sure will prove to be a landmark contribution to this debate.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992380#Comment_121992380

Where did I suggest that the government manage social interactions? Can you provide a quote please?

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992148#Comment_121992148

Thats a strategy decision based on legal obligations to meet emissions targets. Its exactly what the government should be doing.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992168#Comment_121992168

This is true, but of course there does need to be a party for people to vote for, even with PR.

The interesting development in irish politics is the rise of the independent.

Indie candidates are now the 2nd or 3rd largest group in terms of voter support (based on polls) and their support is increasing, where the big 3 parties are either stable at best or even losing support.

If that trend continues and we have an election in March 25, it is quite possible that the largest party in the country will be independents.

How many of those indie candidates are "right wing", i dont know. But i do suspect most of them represent right wing values.

What a mess we will be in if a band of independents outflanks every other political party in the country. But we are not far away from that circumstance, if polls are to be believed.

Shoog

Attempting to drag the country

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992116#Comment_121992116

Attempting to drag the country even more to the right economically will not solve any of the countries problems. The one size fits all neo-liberal solution to everything just isn't a solution. You think it won but it caused the fucked up mess we have now in all parts of the world where it is slavishly adhered to - especially the UK and USA.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992168#Comment_121992168

We have a government made up primarily of two traditionally centre right parties who in recent years have moved more and more to the left in every way possible.

The opposition are the same as well, so even if you got a Sinn Fein led government the only difference would be that they would implement their wing nut policies and bankrupt the country, but yeah we need more left wing stuff in Ireland, God knows we're not drowning in it already.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992404#Comment_121992404

We were talking about gay rights i.e. something that the government legislates for

So you were making a societal point, that's fine and I clearly misunderstood. Apologies.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992433#Comment_121992433

It's one of the main barriers to home ownership as it contributes so much to construction costs

Ideology of the leftist variety yet you think a lack of state intervention is the problem

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992464#Comment_121992464

We don't have the same politics as the USA or the UK. Not remotely.

We're far more like our European peers.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992448#Comment_121992448

When it comes to actual governance, voting for an Independent is a waste of time.

Most of them are there on the basis of shouting loudly about hyper-local issues. They belong in the local councils, not a national parliament.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992485#Comment_121992485

Bar the period when Charlie mcreevy was minister for finance, FF were always centre left economically, they used to be socially conservative but under Michael Martin are socially indistinguishable from the labour party

Agree with your post otherwise

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992504#Comment_121992504

The obligation to make efficient housing is not a political decision - all parties are committed to it. It actually makes the habit of expecting developers so all the heavy lifting unrealistic and why we have insufficient houses been built. The policy will not change so the government has to find a way to make it work.

techdiver

I'm in my early 40's, married with 3 children. This is generally my political and societal stance.

1. Generally socially liberal. Voted Yes and encouraged everyone I know to vote for for Abortion, SSM, etc.
2. Believe in a social safety net. We should be judged as a society by how we look after our vulnerable.
3. Believe that every young person should have aspirations to own their own home and be able to do so affordably. Homes should not be permitted to be treated in the same way as other capital investments where billionaire vultures and hedge funds hold a society hostage for profit.
4. Believe that in general our taxation system is fair apart from a few exceptions (tax individualisation punishing single income families).
5. Health care should be a right not a privilege. In saying that I work a job that affords me health insurance and I gladly take it. It doesn't change the fact that economic power shouldn't dictate your health outcomes but it does.
6. Religion has no place in schools. The strangle hold the church still has on education in this country is a disgrace and is nothing but an abdication of responsibility from the state. If you want your child brought up and indoctrinated in the Catholic faith (or any faith for that matter), that is perfectly fine. You can do so out of normal school hours if you feel that strongly.
7. Whilst accepting refugees and asylum seekers is an international obligation, I think we are past the Rubicon as to the current policy. Like it or not, Ireland is seen as a soft touch internationally and we are not dealing with the issue of bogus claims appropriately. Self deportations is the biggest joke of all time and needs to be addressed. What I fully support and encourage is proper controlled immigration. Our society is enhanced by such people and not only that we require immigration. I want more of the type of immigrant that adds to our society. The naive open arms policy might make you feel warm and fizzy inside but it ignored the reality of the situation and the more the virtue signallers vilify anyone who questions this stance, the more the feelings and movement are pushed under grounds which leads to the rise of the so called "far right".
8. Whilst I believe in treating everyone with respect and dignity, there is a ceiling in how far as a society we must bend to the whims of certain groups. Regarding the trans ideology, I believe that if someone wants to identify as a different gender, that is perfectly fine and I will publicly respect that. At the end of the day though it doesn't change basic biology no matter how much you want to believe it does. No, you cannot declare yourself a woman and compete against women in sporting pursuits (anyone who supports this is a loon in my opinion). No, you cannot put a dress on and use a female only space.
9. I believe any service or utility that is in the public interest should be as much as possible publicly owned and controlled (or at the very least heavily regulated). As I stated in my hosing section, I don't support the over commoditisation of basic necessities. By all means commoditise luxury goods like electronics (phones, tvs etc), but not what is required for basic society to function. What I mean by over commoditisation, is that whilst I fully accept that supply and demand impact a market, there should be controls in place to avoid rampant profiteering from such items.
10. I firmly believe that climate change is a major threat. If not directly to our generation but our children's generation.
11. I think a society that attempts to restrict free speech whether it be by some nefarious authoritarian regime like China or in the name of the perpetually offended in the West, is losing/lost the runs of itself.

There is probably more but all I can think of now. My issue is there is really no one that aligns fully with my outlook. I actually believe a large portion of society is on the same wavelength as me. For the most part I lean left, apart from my attitude to gender politics and "some" would say immigration, but as regards immigration I would argue that I am still left leaning and all I want controlled is the uncontrolled immigration we are currently seeing. As I've said I fully support immigration and believe diversifying our population is for the better and enriches us with views from outside of our echo chamber.

What actually annoys me is in some areas of concern for me (tax individualisation etc), the only voice raising that issue is the bloody Iona institute (who I couldn't be further from ideologically) because other mainstream groups won't address this because you will be seen as ani woman if you do. This is despite that fact that I believe anyone that does support it had the wool fully pulled over their eyes by McCreevy in 2000 when it was lauded as a positive step for women. All it achieved is making families more miserable with both apparent having to work full time and having their children raised by strangers.

In the past I have actually voted for the greens, but they have jumped the shark so much I will never vote for them again. All other mainstream parties have (mistakenly in my opinion) embraced the lunatic fringe element of society and have lost touch with what really matters.

As other have said earlier, I don't want a right wing party. I want a common sense party that actually deals with the real issues of the day and not the soundbite issues that has dominated discourse this cycle.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992485#Comment_121992485

I think SF in government would be indistinguishable from FF

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992505#Comment_121992505

Our economic model is far closer to the latter two than to the European model.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992529#Comment_121992529

But it is a political - ideological decision, social housing need not be built to the same spec as a new house in a private estate, it doesn't mean said social housing should be poor quality

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992531#Comment_121992531

Excellent post, you strike me as a mainstream centre left voter yet some of what you list would be dismissed as hard right nowadays

Boggles

The silent majority will sort it.

They have been saying it for decades.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992539#Comment_121992539

I don't think so, and the OECD agrees with me. We are clustered with similar EU countries (Sweden, Netherlands, France) and places like Canada.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992510#Comment_121992510

I get your point, but its irrelevant to the make up of the Dail.

If Indies end up taking more seats than one or more of the big 3 parties, they will weild a lot of influence and will likley form smaller factions in which some of them band together on certain issues.

They could play a significant role in govt formation this time around.

I still expect to see a FFG govt, but the rise of the indies means its all to play for.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992448#Comment_121992448

Most people will vote for one of the main stream parties when it comes to a general election.

The main parties will seek to include those voters they have lost for whatever reason in the past few years ..that's what politicians do .

We have already seen FG pivot in their Ard Fheis and other utterances about " getting back to their roots " so expect to see more right of centre policies there .Probably won't save them this time but there's always another GE in 4/5 years .

Indeed it would be a mess if independents outflank the main parties in the next GE. Not least of all for the people of this country. We have endured unworkable results of hung Dáils before .

One topic TDs are ok in isolation but as a group of narrow focussed individuals , like the Left Independent group in the Dáil, they can have very little effect except shouting and waving their fists with the odd Bill that inevitably gets defeated .They are only good for very local issues or local roads or amenities which suits some people but only as long as there is a rational government elected to cater for the actual governance and functioning of the state .

Encouraging people to vote in anger or in protest for this type of representation is misleading if they think anything they feel passionate about will be fixed , sorted or pushed through

These independents may or may not form a coherent party or even working /voting group in the Dáil but you can be guaranteed that the issues that they decide are the most important to focus on will be the populist issues of the day which alter as soon as they get reelected or pretty soon after .

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993017#Comment_121993017

If independents can find enough common ground to work together they could form a seriously powerful block and hold sway.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993164#Comment_121993164

That's a herding cats scenario, surely. I'm an expat so do correct me but it seems that an Independent's sole loyalty is to their constituency given that there is no party ladder to climb.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993219#Comment_121993219

True but we can hope!

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993164#Comment_121993164

I wouldn't hold my breath. About the only unifying factor the Independents have is the fact they are non-party.

Although the hilarity of watching a gobbaloon like Healy-Rea or Matty McGrath try to answer substantive policy questions might be worth it.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992539#Comment_121992539

More closer to the US than the UK.