Now it's official: "Ireland needs a new right wing party".

Everlong1

Well many people on this site have been saying it for years, and have been dismissed by the wokerati confidently trumpeting that "there's no appetite in Ireland for right wing politics." This opinion piece in that well known far right organ, The Irish Independent, finally spells out in black and white what the dogs in the street have known for years. This is a premium article unfortunately but worth taking out even a temporary subscription for if you're even remotely interested in political trends.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/lorraine-courtney-ireland-needs-a-proper-right-wing-party-before-scales-of-our-democracy-are-irreparably-broken/a2128221820.html

TheIrishGrover

There have been many right wing parties in Ireland. And if people want them in power, believe they represent their beliefs then they will vote for them be in power. If people don't want them to be in power, don't believe they represent their beliefs then they won't be.

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058345672/now-its-official-ireland-needs-a-new-right-wing-party

The PD's were also an unmitigated disaster for this country, between their addiction to boom policies and the wanting of Mary Harney for the health service to go fully along the American model. They were the tail that wagged the FF dog, and their policy of Greed is Good destroyed the social fabric of the country by pitting neighbour against neighbour in one-upmanship. They ran the country on lies and bluster, and we ended up paying the price while they and their cronies continued on as normal.

How we need a shower like them back is beyond me.

francois

The no true right-wing party fallacy once again appears on Boards

artanevilla

What is the wokerati?

Former Former Former

Right-wing columnist says we need a right-wing party.

This is news, how exactly? And how is it "official"?

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991732#Comment_121991732

It's almost as if Irish people aren't happy with fascist like rhetoric in political parties.

Beside what traditional or neo-conservative right wing policy, other than a ban or highly restrictive policies immigration or blatant racism, does they country not have?

Stark

That is a seriously poorly worded article. She doesn't even articulate what she means by "right wing" which means a lot of different things for a lot of people. Like some people are looking for a racist party, some people are looking for a fiscally conservative party, some people looking for a party with Catholic values etc.

FWIW, I think we have too many left wing voices pushing Ireland towards a communist style economy and not enough articulate people advocating more economically responsible policies. But I have no desire to give up the social freedoms we've acquired over the last 3 decades here. From that point of view, I'm probably most closely aligned with the PDs back in the day as opposed to the American style loony fringe right nutjobs that count for "right wing" parties these days.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991722#Comment_121991722

100% PD's were a disaster.
Ripped up our health system, broke up Aer Rianta, and pushed heavily for privatization of every public service (ESB, CIE, Telecom Eireann, etc)

Those actions have had far reaching and expensive consequences.

prunudo

it will happen and will happen quicker than the left realise. Too busy in denial and putting labels on people who disagree with their views as they slide further and further to the left.

Edit:- I'm not even talking far right here, the left are afraid of anyone from centre right and anyone with right leaning views.

cgcsb

The only 'right wing' policy there seems to be appetite for is tougher stances on the undocumented, welfare and crime. Not much else about the right appeals to the public. That being said, immigration seems to be the main driver and I'm no longer convinced that the people who support the open door policy are actually 'left wing'. The only benefactors of our current policy is a select few hoteliers and caterers (already rich folks in the know) who get cozy state contracts, the people who suffer from it are typically the working class who's areas are saddled with thousands of young men from the developing world with no ID who will be homed well in advance of any local person seeking a home of their own. Seems like a right wing policy to me.

Backstreet Moyes

Ireland doesn't need a right wing party at all.

We need a party that can implement common sense policies.

Prisons overflowing and where we have people on the street who shouldn't be, guards can't manage the current population and workload.

The only thing the minister for justice is interested in is a hate speech law to take resources away from actual crimes that guards currently are understaffed for.

Someone who barely worked a day in their life in the real world and is more interested in wasting guards time pandering to the permanently offended who go out of the their way to seek attention, we all know one, the only gay in the village type that embarsses gay people who just want to get on with life.

Vote4Squirrels

I don’t think we need a new right wing party - but we definitely need Fine Gael to get shut of the far left idiots leading the charge and get back to centre-right politics and look after the ordinary Irish person.

Danzy

Or we need left wing parties that are not Middle class hobby horses, that are completely enthrall to radical free market politics, even in the radical left, on many things and obsessed with anything that is nebulous and unrelated to bread and butter issues.

HBC08

Theres no real appetite for an actual right wing party in Ireland.

However the majority of people,I'd wager the vast majority are angry with what has happened with immigration. This is compounded when their fears and concerns are silenced or they are called racists etc.

We do need one of the main parties to address this,it was an open goal for SF but they have shown themselves not to be too smart or savvy.My bet is it'll be FG,maybe FF.

Anyway,bottom line is they're be no new significant right wing party any time soon

Daniel son

As soon as you said wokerati, you cannot be taken serious, end of debate.

ToweringPerformance

The lurch to the right is badly needed to restore some balance. We can't continue with these insane left wing ideologies it is destroying us as a nation.

Raoul Duke III

I assume that the point being made is that we need a centre-right Party (like, for example the CDU in Germany), not some far-right Party (which thankfully there is close to zero support for in Ireland).

That should be FG's natural homeland and I believe there is an easy 25-30% of the population that would vote for such a Party - if one existed that could cogently explain a sensible manifesto. The problem for FG is that they have drifted into the soggy centre of Irish politics, which is the natural place for government parties over the last 3 decades. SF in power would end up there too. The problem with the soggy centre, from a retail politics point o view is, that in attempting to keep everyone semi-happy, you end up pleasing nobody!

FG should recalibrate and lay claim to the middle-class, middle-earning voter base. I think they would be politically rewarded for this.

ancapailldorcha

How is this official? It's just the same bleating we've heard from rightists for years with a dump from the Independent.

Hungry Burger

FG in government have been an unmitigated disaster, but they could be good in opposition. Expect to see them pivot to the right on issues such as immigration, crime and welfare.

Raoul Duke III

If you are:

1. a medium-high earner
2. own your own house
3. have kids (i.e. are invested in the future)
4. think government should run efficiently and on the basis of proper long-term policy, rather than populism
5. are somewhat socially liberal (i.e. you probably voted yes in the SSM and abortion referendums, but have your doubts about things like transgenderism)

i.e. you are socially liberal-ish but also fiscally conservative

who do you vote for? It should be a centre-rightish Party. Do you feel you have decent options today? I would say not.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991892#Comment_121991892

This. Another poster above mentioned that we need a party with common sense policies on crime, welfare and immigration. This is what I understand to be a centre right party and this is what the Indo columist is talking about. And is badly needed at this stage.

Everlong1

No shortage of posters still in denial about the domination of woke politics in Ireland I see.

marno21

No need for any right wing party. Just for FF and FG to actually implement the policies their grassroots actually advocate for, and not spending time trying to appeal to the median Soc Dems voter. They seem to manage this for 90% of their respective histories and were rewarded by the electorate for doing so.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991938#Comment_121991938

I'll be honest and say, at this advanced stage of my life (49), I have no idea what the phrase 'woke politics' means. Can you enlighten me please? Which Irish party or parties are considered the biggest practitioners of 'woke politics'?

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991921#Comment_121991921

Is that not Aontu? (I know Peadar Tóibín is anti-abortion, but for everything else like…)

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991722#Comment_121991722

They didn't do anything like the level of damage this current government has inflicted on the country by allowing the Green tail wag the FFG dog

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991952#Comment_121991952

I think you missed point (5) 😀

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991746#Comment_121991746

How many articles have you seen in the national newspapers, or any other national media for that matter, saying that we need a right wing party to counter the drive to the left? The only mention of right wing politics I ever see in the national media is hysterical shrieks about how any protest or concern raised about unlimited immigration are the first steps towards Ireland becoming the Fourth Reich.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991952#Comment_121991952

Nope, Aontu is literally the opposite of what they want.

Fine Gael is the closest to what they're after.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991808#Comment_121991808

Agreed , it's wholly about immigration, from rich to poor , Irish people love big government

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991926#Comment_121991926

To be honest, I think Bill Clinton's maxim is the one where every political party that actually has aspirations to governing (and let's be honest, some of them have no such aspirations) should start: it's the economy stupid.

Get your economic policies right such that the majority of your voters feel secure and prosperous. That is the absolute core. Get that right and you can then fix everything else. Most salary earners in this country are paying income taxes at 50%+ from quite a low base (40k); that is outrageous. You tell them that your core mission is to put more money in their pockets by lowering those rates and increasing those bands and everything else you list above will be secondary to that.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991938#Comment_121991938

Sounds like a simplistic Americanism, that adds nothing to political discourse in the sane world. It means all manner of things including belief in a public healthcare system and government led affordable housing.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991968#Comment_121991968

Since the GFC, that trend has been replicated all over Europe, it's not just an Irish thing.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991949#Comment_121991949

They all practice it to some degree but the most wholeheartedly woke party are the Soc Dems, closely followed by Labour and the Greens

Woke is hard to define but like many things, you know it when you see it , bit like art

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991992#Comment_121991992

It sort of is , we have no tradition ( intellectual or political) of libertarianism in Ireland, the Edmund Burke variety of conservativism

On matters of the economy things have drifted so far to the right that what we have now is considered normal. There is very little further we could go right in economic terms without attacking all forms of welfare ( which would be a disaster to sell to the public despite what some imagine). What we have have economically is why we have so many social problems. More right wing economic policies would only make the social situation more unstable. Welfare is only there to ensure long term social stability and an attack on it would pivot the country into a very dangerous state - fortunately no sensible political part fails to understand this so only an extreme right wing party would precipitate such a social crisis.

Unfortunately the only way to address many of our social issues is some form of shift to a more interventionist model.

The whole social conservative agenda is another matter - but ultimately a vote loser since Ireland had become very socially liberal as a reaction to the history of social conservatism under Catholic Ireland.

No easy answers and a populist right wing party will certainly not solve anything.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991993#Comment_121991993

I mustn't have much aptitude for art because I still don't know what 'woke politics' means. In fact I think I'm more confused!

Neither of the two social democratic parties are in government (why the hell don't they just merge and call themselves the SDLP) so their 'woke politics' can't be impacting peoples daily lives. I don't think environmentalism can be classified as 'woke' either, surely we are all very aware now of the seriousness of climate change and the need to ameliorate it?

So, in short, I still don't get it. 😃

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991993#Comment_121991993

in the USA or Australia, mainstream news reeporters will call you 'woke' or a 'libtard' if you care about the environment, want public health care or want affordable housing. It's a catch all used by early school leavers in places with substandard education who are only capable of all or nothing, black/white, yes/no thinking.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992008#Comment_121992008

That the jersey worn by a sitting minister is FF or FG is irrelevant, take the minister for justice, her entire ministry has been one of campaigning on woke politics ,she is a glove puppet of progressive left NGO,s

The power lies behind the throne

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991973#Comment_121991973

The Irish economy has been outperforming all our European peers for years now.

And yet the actual cost of living and purchasing power of the Irish family has been eroded. The focus on economy and "the numbers go up" over people's actual quality of life is what has led us to this point in the first place.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992004#Comment_121992004

We have an incredibly redistributive fiscal regime - I have no idea how you can claim we have gone 'so far to the right' economically. Have a look at our Gini Coefficient if you don't believe me.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992016#Comment_121992016

No , it's a catch-all for folks who prioritise issues like gender or gender identity over traditional socialist political concerns

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992025#Comment_121992025

Redistribution is only a small part of the economy. Its how we approach matters of finance, funding and infrastructure which have been dragged to the right. There is more to the economy than welfare and taxation policy in all it various forms

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991963#Comment_121991963

They (He) no pun intended claims that Aontu is socially conservative with centre left economics, that's opposed to abortion.
Kind of an oxymoron. But also kind of isn't.

I support socially inclusive policies (to an extent).
I think public services should stay public and never be privatised, (but they should be managed carefully).
I believe in people being allowed to make a mistake once, make it twice though and you pay the penalty no matter how harsh it is.
I think you are mostly responsible for you and the world owes you nothing, (I've done ok, I come from nothing. A lot of lads I went to school with are dead… that's the kind of area I come from).
I think religious beliefs along with sexual orientation and gender identification have absolutely no place in the the work place. There are places/events for those things (IE Pride is about LGBTQ, Communion/Confirmation is about Religion or indeed your own home for your own beliefs) Work is work, I'm their to work, not for culture/social stuff.

I don't feel there are any political parties that represent my views.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992008#Comment_121992008

If someone cares a lot politically about identity, sexuality, rights, environment etc, particularly if they put a higher premium on these issues than things like economy and law and order, then they're considered "woke". It's basically suggesting that it's all fluffy politics, no real substance.

It's just another aspect of the stupid parts of American politics infiltrating our political discourse, people read this crap on Twitter and then put a local spin on it. You can stick it in the same bucket as the chatter about "mainstream media" and "NGOs" etc. Maybe throw in the odd reference to George Soros too.

TheIrishGrover

Wokey woke libtards allowing all these Mexicans across our borders. Make Ireland Great Again/Eirexit. Usually funded by groups outside of Ireland. Usually with Irish name so if you don't support them then you are not REALLY Irish.

But who is stopping these parties? If people want them then they will vote for them. If they are not voted in then the party will have to accept that they did not speak for people who did not vote for them

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992018#Comment_121992018

I was unaware of this fact entirely until now.

To be honest though, I don't really pay attention to justice policy unless there's a referendum or there's a perception that crime stats are out of control. The latter are stable (Dublin riot flareup notwithstanding) and yes, the recent referendum was a mess but hardly something fundamental?

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992035#Comment_121992035

The state gets in the way of almost every aspect of the economy here , especially with regards construction

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992035#Comment_121992035

Could you give some specific examples? And indicate how they have moved rightwards over time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992056#Comment_121992056

Left to their own devices private industry will do whatever pays the most. Up until 3 years ago the only things been constructed were offices for that very reason. The state has to have oversight and control of national objectives.