Now it's official: "Ireland needs a new right wing party".

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993131#Comment_121993131

Yes, when push comes to shove, most will vote for an established party perhaps.

But if the number of indies continues to rise and the majority electorate frustration with the big 3 parties continues, we could see an extreme number of indies in the Dail this time around.

I dont know if there are more indie candidates preparing to stand vs the numbers we would expect to stand if the election were held today, or even how aligned the candidates themselves would be on core policies.

It does feel as though a co-ordinated approach, from a like minded band of indies, still perhaps 11 months out from a GE, could really develop into a powerful player in the next govt.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993330#Comment_121993330

Completely agree with that - I know so many people planning to vote Independent due to being politically homeless.

Everlong1

Personally what I want to see is common sense policies formulated, adopted and implemented on crime, immigration and welfare. I've voted Fine Gael/Labour pretty much my whole life so would be happy to FG move to the right - or, if you prefer, move back to common sense - on these issues rather than wait in vain for a centre right party that isn't composed of racist or anti - choice loons to emerge. If FG move back to the right because they're afraid of losing votes to the Independents or others that'll do nicely for me, thank you.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993164#Comment_121993164

"Independents" come from a clatter of different perspectives, priorities and ideological rankings - all along the spectrum at that. While half their appeal is precisely because they're either hyper local focused - for better or worse - or that they're not part of the general party (whip) system.

There was that collection of independents who gathered together to get Speaking Rights a few years back (IIRC?) but that was only about a handful; no way you could get that large a spread of individuals to coalesce around a central platform. It's a nice idea but pure fantasy tBH.

And bluntly speaking: good. While having a hyper fixation on local issues can be of value, a block of independents holding cabinets to ransom over whatever insane local proposition they were angling for would ensure a metric tonne of chaos. Christ the Healy-Rays alone would do it. Have done it, right? Papa Healy-Ray was in the mix fadó?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992505#Comment_121992505

Exactly. Because those US economic policies have been shown to have failed sociallyas well just as much as the Communist ideologies in the past .

It is not a question of Capitalism ' beating ' Socialism though . .

I agree with a lot of your posts but not that .

What has evolved from 20th century policies is a system somewhere in the middle as the most ideal .

We have a system which has evolved centre right economically which leans left socially like our European counterparts .

Some seem to want us to lean right socially which is going against the grain for many Irish people who remember what it was like to live here under that sort of government in the past , which was heavily influenced by a conservative Catholic ethos .

I don't think that is what people are looking for, especially given the SSM and Repeal 8th referenda were passed by such a majority but there are some issues like Law and Order and Immigration that have caught the public attention for sure .

But if people think to vote for right wing parties will give them one or two right wing policy but not the rest ...

I would be happy for more law and order , more prison time for offenders , and control of immigration with enforced deportation , but in a fair and humane manner with our European partners .. more affordable and state housing , better public health services and disability services , and while maintaining good social welfare benefits for those that need them , 'encouraging 'return to work and part-time work for those that can and ensuring it pays .to do this

A sensible regard for environmental issues and real attempts at progress towards reaching our emissions targets but not above people's affordability .

But while not above any other priority , equality and freedom for all , to live safely and happily , without discrimination or abuse in this country should be AS important with any representative I would vote for . Otherwise the rest means nothing really .

I think of myself as a slightly left of centre / centrist voter but have been called a lefty and numerous other names, too many and too ridiculous to mention by some on Boards !

Now either that is true and I am totally misconstruing The Silent Majority myself, or the 'very vocal minority' (on social media anyway !) are labelling everybody else incorrectly .

Such as 'Wokerati " .. now that is just imported scvtter.

Furze99

We don't really need a right wing party as such.

We just need a party that first & foremost will represent the interests of ordinary Irish citizens and their children and parents etc. The current lot are all wedded to some other ideas and couldn't give much of a crap about the real citizens of this state.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993441#Comment_121993441

There used to be only one way for Independents to get speaking rights, which was coalesce with any small parties in to a single, I believe 7+ member, group. This lead to there being a Technical Group in the 2002-2007 Dáil that had the Greens, SF and the Socialist Party in with Jackie Healey-Rae and Mildred Fox etc - full spectrum coverage.

You can now have groups of 5+ (parties get speaking rights at 5), and as many groups as required; and even then they're usually just semi random collections of Independents with nothing linking them other than a desire to get speaking time.

We have a few odd ones, a Regional Group of mostly ex-FF and ex-FG Independents plus Aontu; a Rural group of two of IndI, the Healey Raes, Mattie and Carol Nolan - bit of an odd mix there; and an "Independent Group" which goes from Michael McNamara and the other IndI on the right to Thomas Pringle on the left.

In the 2007-2010 Dáil, there were so few non-Government backing Independents and small party TDs that even SF didn't get speaking rights until Pearse Doherty won a by-election and they could form a left wing technical group!

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991789#Comment_121991789

Which is exactly why fuckers like that should never be let anywhere near the levers of power again.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993481#Comment_121993481

That's a radical concept these days though and not just in Ireland.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991921#Comment_121991921

+100%, this is exactly it.

There is loads of centre-left parties, there is space for a centre-right party.

Or, for FG to get back there!!!

National Party / Barrett, etc. are bonkers, and are irrelevant to this discussion, just like extreme-left PBP are irrelevant.

Geuze

Aontú are centre-left, cut for the SF cloth.

(the only difference is the anti-abortion stance)

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993330#Comment_121993330

But that is precisely the problem which I said in my previous post .

It takes more than one or two issues to form an agenda for government.

If voting for a party that doesn't have more than that you are courting disaster !

One only has to look at the lack of success of previous single topic or narrow focus groups to see how this would pan out in practice .

Once the drive for an issue has been met by many of these TDs ( who let's face it, are populists ) and that might be just a listening ear and "hey, we can't give you this, but we will give you that new road /greenway / shipping district you were asking for '! they will be off chasing their own very individual agendas with their select voters in mind.

The only people served by Independents are those TDs and their families and those in their local area. Which is fine if you get what you want from them but don't expect great national change .

It's losing situation for anyone else and the overall governance of the country. Bigger parties are slower making decisions and hog tied because they have to negotiate , often individually within these groups.

Last seen the carryon of Independent so called group propping up FF in the early noughties , rise of HealyRaes .

And as for making up a coherent grouping , the reason why many independents are so because they ARE independent , don't like to be tied down and don't conform to party politics .

Herding cats as ACD said !

If you think this crowd are bad look back at the 1980s and three GE within as many years all with government parties relying on independent votes .it makes for comedy gold ;)

(However wasn't funny at the time and the country was on its knees and easy to see why )

"Time was when a mere two votes could bring down a government"
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/time-was-when-a-mere-two-votes-could-bring-down-a-government/26396386.html#:~:text=Time%20was%20when%20a%20mere%20two%20votes%20could%20bring%20down%20a%20government

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993639#Comment_121993639

Agreed. I am not saying the "rise of the indies' is a good thing.

But it is a trend.

I am sure the govt are watching the polling projections and are concerned.

No doubt the govt are looking to strike the right timing between SF support hitting its low point before the GE, but without leaving things too long for more indie or indie alliamces to form - as well as hoping for a bounce in support for the govt parties themselves.

When it comes to setting an election date, Its a thin tight rope to walk at the moment for the govt :)

Geuze

@Goldengirl wishes are what most voters want:

"I would be happy for more law and order , more prison time for offenders , and control of immigration with enforced deportation , but in a fair and humane manner with our European partners .. more affordable and state housing , better public health services and disability services , and while maintaining good social welfare benefits for those that need them , 'encouraging 'return to work and part-time work for those that can and ensuring it pays .to do this"

PBP / SF / GP / Lab / SocDems are against the policies on the first line, and/or the final line.

I often wonder why FF or FG don't follow what this simple four-line list of policies - they'd get loads of votes!!

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993710#Comment_121993710

Maybe a return to grass roots FG will tick the boxes!

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993710#Comment_121993710

Why Geuze , am feeling the love ;)

But you missed the second half !

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993719#Comment_121993719

Ah jayze , that's not enough !

They need a few years in the Wilderness of Opposition with Simon first , methinks .

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993751#Comment_121993751

While SF bankrupt the country? That'd only take a month. Although if they went into coalition with FF it might take as much as, oh, six months.

BaywatchHQ

I don't vote as society is a lost cause. I only vote when it comes to big issues like Brexit which I voted for.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993817#Comment_121993817

Where did I say SF ??

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993836#Comment_121993836

Nowhere. But if FG aren't part of the next Government, who else is going to be there? The only other realistic proposition is a coalition of SF + FF and others.

Rosahane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993389#Comment_121993389

I'm the same. Father was a C na G and FG member all his life, all our family the same. With two generations and a good few third generation and lots of cousins etc it adds up to almost 100 votes that will probably be voting independent in the local and EU elections and we'll take it from there.

We have decided that the acid test for Harris is the Hate Crime legislation - if this is passed we're gone!

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993131#Comment_121993131

We have already seen FG pivot in their Ard Fheis

Have we? Most of it seemed mom & apple pie stuff that hardly anyone across the spectrum would dissent from.

other utterances about " getting back to their roots "

mostly from has-beens like Ring & Flanagan

expect to see more right of centre policies there 

with Harris leading them I wouldn't hold my breath…

Merrion

Are there some right wing policies you'd think should be introduced in Ireland, either by a new RW party or by right-aligned independents?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994001#Comment_121994001

I don't think anything will be set in stone but will mollify some of their grass roots .

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994029#Comment_121994029

No worker on median or mean earnings should face close to the top marginal income tax rate.

The top marginal income tax rate should be reserved for high earners.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994029#Comment_121994029

During a housing crisis, with labour shortages, we should not accept that 36,000 approx building workers are on the Live Register.

These workers should be strongly encouraged to return to the (official) labour market, to help build houses.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994067#Comment_121994067

I would imagine a large number of that 36,000 are working.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994029#Comment_121994029

Is this a fantasy policy wish list because if it is ?

Flat tax

Freeze on all AS applications for twelve months

Stripping travellers of their ethnicity minority status

The setting up of a special division in AGS to deal with traveller crime

No child benefit after the fourth child

Minimum prison sentence of five years for possession of a deadly weapon

Eviction notices served on all local authority tenants who are in arrears unless a previous arrears notice isn't cleared inside six months

Privatise RTE

Reduce the number of NGO,s drastically and spend the savings on defence investment

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993710#Comment_121993710

Well you'd absolutely never guess that wish list, if you follow the musings of above over many threads. Seem to spend a lot of time trying to defend the policies that lead to several of above issues. Maybe it's a case of them not seeing the wood for the trees and now when the eyes are lifted up, the whole worsening state of affairs is more apparent.