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Now it's official: "Ireland needs a new right wing party".

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  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭gym_imposter


    Agreed , it's wholly about immigration, from rich to poor , Irish people love big government



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    To be honest, I think Bill Clinton's maxim is the one where every political party that actually has aspirations to governing (and let's be honest, some of them have no such aspirations) should start: it's the economy stupid.

    Get your economic policies right such that the majority of your voters feel secure and prosperous. That is the absolute core. Get that right and you can then fix everything else. Most salary earners in this country are paying income taxes at 50%+ from quite a low base (40k); that is outrageous. You tell them that your core mission is to put more money in their pockets by lowering those rates and increasing those bands and everything else you list above will be secondary to that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,310 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Sounds like a simplistic Americanism, that adds nothing to political discourse in the sane world. It means all manner of things including belief in a public healthcare system and government led affordable housing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    Since the GFC, that trend has been replicated all over Europe, it's not just an Irish thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭gym_imposter


    They all practice it to some degree but the most wholeheartedly woke party are the Soc Dems, closely followed by Labour and the Greens

    Woke is hard to define but like many things, you know it when you see it , bit like art



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  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭gym_imposter


    It sort of is , we have no tradition ( intellectual or political) of libertarianism in Ireland, the Edmund Burke variety of conservativism



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭Shoog


    On matters of the economy things have drifted so far to the right that what we have now is considered normal. There is very little further we could go right in economic terms without attacking all forms of welfare ( which would be a disaster to sell to the public despite what some imagine). What we have have economically is why we have so many social problems. More right wing economic policies would only make the social situation more unstable. Welfare is only there to ensure long term social stability and an attack on it would pivot the country into a very dangerous state - fortunately no sensible political part fails to understand this so only an extreme right wing party would precipitate such a social crisis.

    Unfortunately the only way to address many of our social issues is some form of shift to a more interventionist model.

    The whole social conservative agenda is another matter - but ultimately a vote loser since Ireland had become very socially liberal as a reaction to the history of social conservatism under Catholic Ireland.

    No easy answers and a populist right wing party will certainly not solve anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    I mustn't have much aptitude for art because I still don't know what 'woke politics' means. In fact I think I'm more confused!

    Neither of the two social democratic parties are in government (why the hell don't they just merge and call themselves the SDLP) so their 'woke politics' can't be impacting peoples daily lives. I don't think environmentalism can be classified as 'woke' either, surely we are all very aware now of the seriousness of climate change and the need to ameliorate it?

    So, in short, I still don't get it. 😃



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,310 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    in the USA or Australia, mainstream news reeporters will call you 'woke' or a 'libtard' if you care about the environment, want public health care or want affordable housing. It's a catch all used by early school leavers in places with substandard education who are only capable of all or nothing, black/white, yes/no thinking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭gym_imposter


    That the jersey worn by a sitting minister is FF or FG is irrelevant, take the minister for justice, her entire ministry has been one of campaigning on woke politics ,she is a glove puppet of progressive left NGO,s

    The power lies behind the throne



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The Irish economy has been outperforming all our European peers for years now.

    And yet the actual cost of living and purchasing power of the Irish family has been eroded. The focus on economy and "the numbers go up" over people's actual quality of life is what has led us to this point in the first place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    We have an incredibly redistributive fiscal regime - I have no idea how you can claim we have gone 'so far to the right' economically. Have a look at our Gini Coefficient if you don't believe me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭gym_imposter


    No , it's a catch-all for folks who prioritise issues like gender or gender identity over traditional socialist political concerns



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Redistribution is only a small part of the economy. Its how we approach matters of finance, funding and infrastructure which have been dragged to the right. There is more to the economy than welfare and taxation policy in all it various forms



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    They (He) no pun intended claims that Aontu is socially conservative with centre left economics, that's opposed to abortion.
    Kind of an oxymoron. But also kind of isn't.

    I support socially inclusive policies (to an extent).
    I think public services should stay public and never be privatised, (but they should be managed carefully).
    I believe in people being allowed to make a mistake once, make it twice though and you pay the penalty no matter how harsh it is.
    I think you are mostly responsible for you and the world owes you nothing, (I've done ok, I come from nothing. A lot of lads I went to school with are dead… that's the kind of area I come from).
    I think religious beliefs along with sexual orientation and gender identification have absolutely no place in the the work place. There are places/events for those things (IE Pride is about LGBTQ, Communion/Confirmation is about Religion or indeed your own home for your own beliefs) Work is work, I'm their to work, not for culture/social stuff.

    I don't feel there are any political parties that represent my views.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,556 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    If someone cares a lot politically about identity, sexuality, rights, environment etc, particularly if they put a higher premium on these issues than things like economy and law and order, then they're considered "woke". It's basically suggesting that it's all fluffy politics, no real substance.

    It's just another aspect of the stupid parts of American politics infiltrating our political discourse, people read this crap on Twitter and then put a local spin on it. You can stick it in the same bucket as the chatter about "mainstream media" and "NGOs" etc. Maybe throw in the odd reference to George Soros too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,017 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Wokey woke libtards allowing all these Mexicans across our borders. Make Ireland Great Again/Eirexit. Usually funded by groups outside of Ireland. Usually with Irish name so if you don't support them then you are not REALLY Irish.

    But who is stopping these parties? If people want them then they will vote for them. If they are not voted in then the party will have to accept that they did not speak for people who did not vote for them



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    I was unaware of this fact entirely until now.

    To be honest though, I don't really pay attention to justice policy unless there's a referendum or there's a perception that crime stats are out of control. The latter are stable (Dublin riot flareup notwithstanding) and yes, the recent referendum was a mess but hardly something fundamental?



  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭gym_imposter


    The state gets in the way of almost every aspect of the economy here , especially with regards construction



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    Could you give some specific examples? And indicate how they have moved rightwards over time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Left to their own devices private industry will do whatever pays the most. Up until 3 years ago the only things been constructed were offices for that very reason. The state has to have oversight and control of national objectives.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Privatisation of just about every national asset. A refusal to seriously address the need for public health services.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    That's a good definition, thanks. Now I get it.

    So if someone is heavily invested in, say, transgender rights and highly vocal in, say, calling for people like JK Rowling to be cancelled, then they would be an exemplar of 'wokeism'?

    (tbh, people like that seem irrelevant when it comes to serious issues and should just be ignored - as should the people calling them 'wokeist' in a derogatory way)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    We just need a common sense party.

    Sensible immigration policy, get rid of the stupid hate speech bill, build more houses ( or allow more to be built as it seems impossible to build houses in Ireland due to endless objections and planning delays caused by cranks), a new prison, harsher sentences for violent crime, get rid of waste in health service and other government departments.

    Problem is I think the poor calbire of our elected representatives means we'll never get any of these fairly sensible policies implemented in the near future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    Privatisation is hardly a new thing. You seem to be complaining about something that happened 3 or 4 decades ago in most cases. Maybe update your list of grievances. 😏

    On health, despite having the youngest population in Western Europe, we have the fourth highest spend per head. So I don't see health as an economic issue - I see it as a health policy issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    No, it doesn't. It means being obsessed with fringe nonsense like why don't we have more trans toilets in schools and other public buildings. Which then leads to a climate where you can't talk sense about crime, immigration or welfare without the risk of being labelled as a racist/neo-con/fascist/whatever you're having yourself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Privatisation is the loadstone of right wing politics and it's still going on.

    All health spending ultimately gets funnelled through private companies, which is why our spending is so high and our results so poor.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    It does have oversight and control - we have regulators, we set tax rates, we have laws, we have environmental standards etc etc. The same model that exists in every liberal democracy on earth.

    What do you want, everything to be nationalised like North Korea? That works well, not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I certainly don't want wholesale nationalization - but empirically some service are better and cheaper when offered by the state.

    Your perfectly illustrating my point - right wing ecomic dogma is now considered the norm. They won and we are suffering in many areas as a consequence.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,205 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    "right-wing policies are great ………. well the shortsighted ones that directly benefit me now are anyway …….. I'll come back and complain when the ones that don't, start to affect me"



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