https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2024/04/01/by-friday-im-so-tired-i-can-barely-see-straight-the-rise-of-long-distance-commuting-teachers/
FFS, a major newspaper running this story just because it's a teacher. Driving 80 minutes is something many people do, but they have to do it far more days a year than a teacher will have to.
Nail on the head, they live on a different planet if they think they’re hard done by, the sad thing is a lot of them actually do believe that they are hard done by and have hard jobs. I think they just spend too long in each others company and believe their own bulls**t after a while.
Or as it was said to me one time, and in complete seriousness "we teachers are the pillars of society",😂😂😂
Not sure where you're getting your figures but I earn less than 60k and I'm paying just under 200euro per fortnight in pension deductions.
''Lifestyle' wont pay the rent in Dublin or get you a deposit. As Ive already said, teachers are not idiots. If they feel they are being undervalued, they will either go and teach elsewhere or they will do something else altogether. As they are doing right now in real time.
Anyway, if you still maintain that worsening the conditions of a job will attract more people to it, then Im afraid youve lost touch with reality. Further debate on this particular issue would be wasting both of our time.
Most will get significantly more than they pay into the 2013 pension - unless they die before reaching their early-to-mid 70s.
Someone earning €60k working full time pays in approx €248 per month.
Their pension is then a lump sum of €187.50 per month paid in, plus a monthly pension of €34.90 per month paid in.
So once he has drawn 2 months of pension, plus the lump sum, he covers what he paid in on a simple level.
Factor in likely investment growth on his monthly contributions and it brings you to somewhere in the 7-12 years of pension (depending on what age they join the scheme) before they are “in the money” - but that still leaves the vast, vast majority taking well more than they paid in with what is still a very generous Defined Benefit pension.
Most of our nearest neighbours are in the same boat as us or much worse (see England): they cant get enough staff so firing them is a last resort. They do make teachers' lives v difficult of course thanks to OFSTED inspections, which drives plenty out of the job without all the expensive and time consuming disciplinary meetings and sanctions etc. Essentially makes the job a revolving door, yellowpack and cheap to run profession where young people enter at the bottom of the scale, stick it out for 2 or 3 years and then burnout, whereupon the next group of NQTs take up the reins.
In systems that receive adequate resourcing like Luxembourg and Finland, early interventions and mediation mean firing a teacher is generally unnecessary because steps are taken to improve performance adequately in the extremely rare circumstances where it is deemed inadequate. Google instances of teachers being seriously sanctioned anywhere in the world and youll find that the cases are cut and dry.
I feel like it is important to point out that once a probationary period has been observed, it is extremely difficult to fire any worker, public or private, unless there is proof of gross negligence or unprofessionalism. I know of a law firm where a solicitor was literally stealing from them and they had to pay her off to get rid of her. A law firm no less! You can make life uncomfortable for an employee but to outright fire one for perceived underperformance is almost impossible in any sector.
Firstly because teachers wont all leave for Dubai if it happens. Just claiming that "making conditions worse" will make teachers leave or stop them training is bollocks. What other profession will give them this lifestyle? What else are they going to do?
Secondly because parents and students deserve it.
If Norma wants more teachers she can go and change the rules so more people are eligible to teach, many of the rules exist becuase of the recession. Others to keep it as protectionist as possible. Does P.E really need a masters in Education to teach? Cant just hire a qualified physical trainer to show the kids how to play football for 40minutes?
I mean c'mon. Teachers get to live in their ivory towers because govts. kowtow to them, instead of running the education system for the benefit of students and parents.
I don't know what the general take on this issue is but my thinking is that service abroad should not count towards salary here -or at least not fully. Many teachers who have had training provided by the Irish taxpayer decide to take the selfish route of heading abroad -even though they know there's a crying need for their services here. They eschew any sense of patriotic duty and head off ostensibly to earn high wages , enjoy more advantageous working conditions and soak up a better climate and quality of life. Then some of them think they can come swanning back to Ireland and get seamlessly absorbed into the ranks of those who worked doggedly through all the challenges and privations of the home scene. I know some will say 'but they're needed here now'. As against that I say -if it's known that one can lose ground in the increment race -that would be a disincentive for them to leave in the first place.
I could envisage some compromise like ,say. 50% of service being allowed …but I think there should be some element of penalty for those who deserted the cause to feather their own nest.
Does anyone know how underperforming teachers are dealt with in other European countries? Is there any type of on going assessment which must be passed?
Different bands by county - it isn’t exactly rocket science. Or at least it isn’t when you don’t have unions blocking it.
Theres plenty of private sector businesses have operations dotted across the country and are able to adapt pay rates to match the individual local markets.
No shes just not a total moron. Her single biggest responsibility is to get a body in front of a class. Shes finding that v difficult right now. She knows that removing a perk of the job when its available across the public sector and thereby making the conditions of teaching even less attractive than they already seem to be given the shortage schools are experiencing at the moment would serve only to exacerbate the problem.
I mean, how can you argue that worsening conditions will attract and retain more staff? It doesnt make any sense.
Nope. And my qualifications far exceed those required for teaching. It’s their non stop whinging, sense of entitlement ( when their qualifications are nothing to shout about in today’ s world) and their total obliviousness to how good they have it.
Nope she just doesn't have what it takes to take on the teachers union. As per usual the cost will be borne by students, their parents and the tax payers.
That salary isn’t comparable to any other annual salary. It should be grossed up to reflect that fact that it’s for about 7 months work. That is equivalent to about 77k on a like for like basis.
Aside from begrudgery why do you want us to work a 39 hour week? Do you want children in school for those hours also? Same for the holidays? Aside from 6-9 weeks extra work invigilating/marking what else do you anticipate we do with that time and to what end?
I personally know of 3 schools who cannot get English teachers for vacant positions right now.
Actuaries is completely correct, union employed ones as well as those employed by financial planning services all say we are unlikely to get out what we pay in. financial planners obviously biased, unions have shown no willingness to fight the post 2013 pension so can assume the projections are correct.
Pathetic. Income taxes should damn well be levied on business and corporations, stop punching down on the workers and learn some bloody history.
Please tell me why corp profits are taxed @ 12.5% whereas personal taxes are a multiple of that???
I stopped reading after your first sentence, there is no debating with that Freeman of the land crap.
I shouldn't have income tax on my labour. Believe it or not income tax is realtively new (approx 100 years). It was a result of businesses colluding with govts to reduce corp taxes and instead put the burden onto workers, but tax them at payroll so they wont rebel. Worked a charm on you.
Secondly Irish schools reputation is in tatters. Standards have fallen, covid really showed parents where teachers true priorities lie.
Ask yourself a question, why is Paschal never called by his full title? The Minister for Expenditure and Reform
Norma knows that worsening the conditions of a profession that is in the midst of a recruitment and retention crisis is not a logical act.
Public sector pensions are both uncosted and there is no savings fund for them. They are simply taken from the exchequer.
" linked to inflation after retirement" - uhuh great excuse for taking even more of the pie. Public sector pensioners get more per week than many working folk. Oh and you forgot to mention the tax free lump sum on retirement.
"I haven't done the calculations. Accountants have."
Actuaries dear, and they say the same thing that I do. Pension is uncosted.
"I also think it's hilarious that you are going to cut deadwood from education where there is already a shortage of teachers. "
Is there a shortage of STEM and Home Ec? Sure, is there a shortage of English teachers??? Nope.
Also increasing working hours in line with the rest of the workforce (39 hour weeks) would solve that right quick. Ditto with axing a few holidays and of course making correcting exams and invigilating part of the job, not extra payments.
Successive govts have been all carrot and no stick with ye
Career breaks are only sanctioned if a suitable replacement can be found. They are granted on a one year basis. Teachers can't just decide to take them without permission. I owe my permanent position to the fact that I originally covered a career break. Career break cover allow teachers to get full time employment for a full academic year, it often gives NQTs their first "secure" contract rather than subbing.
Not sure why those figures aren't released. They must be available somewhere.
Few people would advocate for a totally private education system. Your taxes would likely be redistributed elsewhere, and you would likely be forced to pay thousands for your kids primary and secondary education meaning you pay a lot more, if you couldn’t afford the local rate, your kids would grow up uneducated.
I’m not a teacher, you need to give the subject more thought.
In that case, there shouldn’t be any objections to ending the career breaks then, should there? If I remember correctly, Norma was silenced pretty quickly when she brought it up.
Teachers have a tough job. I'd say it's exhausting dealing with a huge number kids every day, then have to prepare lessons and all the other paperwork. So they deserve the holidays they get.
This doesn't mean the job you're in isn't tough. That you don't deserve more holidays or better conditions. Housing is an issue for so many. The cost of living is a major issue. Everyone wants a better life for themselves and their family.
So how about, instead of picking on teachers, bankers, the unemployed, foreigners, accountants or whoever, we all work together to make a better life for us all? Is that not a better idea?
The teaching council is almost universally hated by teachers, but to accuse them of coverups is a bit much. Not sure what you're talking about here to be honest.
It’s not high status any more. Teachers are having trouble accepting this. And apart from one teacher training college, standards in the rest of them are extremely dubious.
Teachers council also big fans of coverup whenever a female teacher is caught with a student. Identity withheld "as it would embarrass the student". Remind me again why teachers are allowed police other teachers? Same as the Law Society its an utterly rotten system. Hell even the Gardai have external oversight these days (Policing authority as well as GSOC).
Yes, the career break should be abolished for a start. This is the main reason why there are so many vacancies but few permanent jobs. When we’re being told how many unfilled positions there are, can we also be told how many are due to career breaks. They’re very selective with the figures they release.
I'd happily privately educate them. Can I have my tax cut now? The only thing busting my wallet is the state via taxes left right and centre, thieving a living off my hard work to fund you overpaid part timers.
How many obstacles are put in front of foreign trained teachers trying to obtain a permanent position? As far as I know, the Teachers’ Council makes it extremely difficult for them to register.
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