Clean Air/Congestion Charging set to be introduced by 2030

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963260#Comment_121963260

The "it will take poor people off the road" is correct.

But it will also take loads of people off the road like in every other country. That's the point.

Every other city in the World people from all backgrounds use public transport, even today people from all backgrounds use public transport, it might amaze you

Drive your car all you want. You just will have to pay more for doing it, nobody is saying you can't drive it.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963257#Comment_121963257

I really think you need to widen your circle of friends if you spend the whole time giving out about the Greens.

You need to find better topics of conversation

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963264#Comment_121963264

They hold the balance with their six TD’s to keep the show on the road for the current government l, which gives them a lot of pull to force through policies that are widely unpopular for most of the public.

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963281#Comment_121963281

Ah we wouldn’t be giving out about the Greens all the time. Premiership soccer is a lot more interesting but it can be funny to vent after being forced to drive my 2.0l diesel to aldi to feed cans to a stupid machine even though we all have recycling bins at home!

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963304#Comment_121963304

Jesus what a grim fcking existence

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963304#Comment_121963304

All while wearing the latest kit

Sure don't you go to the shop anyway to get 'd shoppin'

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963326#Comment_121963326

Green inflicted policies are indeed grim.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963222#Comment_121963222

Go have a look at the proportion of 2nd hand cars for sale in Ireland today that have a 2008-2016 registration year. More than 50% will be diesel. The Green Party brought in legislation that meant people who bought a new car in that time period, were heavily incetivised to buy a diesel. Whether it suited their needs or not. The pitch was reduced CO2 and motor tax bill, the result was unreliability and killing urban dwellers.

When the bus eireann city services are electrified maybe then it would make sense to bring in these congestion charges. But no, the Green Party want to make more space to let big double deckers belch out black smoke.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963698#Comment_121963698

The regulations was changed to combat CO2. The car manufacturers lied and the results on diesel cars gave incorrect information. What is confusing here?

It was not "heavily incentivised", the yearly tax reduced as I already provided. The price of diesel cars would be more expensive compared to a petrol. Even when you had petrol cars with low tax people still went for the diesel version when it didn't suit their needs. Even today electric cars suit people needs but they will buy a combustion engine instead.

That is what choice is about.

A bus full of people even if "belch out black smoke" is better than the same amount of people sitting in cars.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961721#Comment_121961721

I don't think the demand for 1.0L cars is gone in Ireland, it's probably more to do with the saloon, estate buyers are choosing to buy the larger more expensive EV due to the much lower taxes compared to the Petrol and diesel versions and most of them are going with PCP now, fooling themselves that the balloon won't ever be an issue. My local VW dealer said most cars they sell now are on PCP, so people are buying much more expensive cars than they would have in the past.

I think for once I agree with the Greens here that politicians need to pressure the manufacturers into making smaller cars and tax much higher these big vehicles a lot more. I mean who in their right minds buys these large vehicles to travel through our towns and cities with narrow streets and only 1 person in them ? it's bonkers.

I agree, the 1.0L segment in Ireland was perfect for a lot of people and these people haven't gone away but the manufacturers are abandoning them.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963698#Comment_121963698

In fairness a lot of countries made the same mistake with diesel. Implying it was an original idea by the Green Party is hilarious.

One bus belching out black smoke Vs 100 cars belching out black smoke. Or Two buses Vs 200 cars.

It's the goal to create a vast car park of black smoke or something.

Anaki r2d2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963724#Comment_121963724

My 520d only costs 200e a year in tax. Thanks Eamon! Your environmental policy’s are great.

He must have had Angry Andrew as his consultant for statistics back then, because they make feck all sense then or now.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963748#Comment_121963748

In principle I'm not against congestion charges, they make sense. The point I'm trying to make is the cart is being put before the horse. I live 20km from Irelands 2nd largest city in a village that is rapidly expanding. There are 3 buses per day into the city, 7:30, 9:30 and 4:30. If you take the 4:30pm bus you have no return trip the same day. The priorities are all wrong. First put the public transport infrastructure in place, then penalise people for not using it. Not the other way around. For many people there is no alternative to the car.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121962727#Comment_121962727

It's been known for many years the impacts of diesel exhaust, but now diesel exhaust if vastly cleaner than it was 10-20 years ago.

The politicians knew well that diesels, at the time, emitted much more harmful emissions but the auto industry lobbied heavily to get politicians to back down on stricter emissions limits always claiming that many jobs would be lost.

The NEDC test highly favoured the auto industry and everyone knew it.

The current WLTP system also highly favours the auto industry, while stricter, efficiency claims are highly exaggerated and if that's the case then emissions must also be highly exaggerated. However, diesels today are vastly cleaner.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963724#Comment_121963724

Nothing you've said is untrue. But think of it this way. The CO2 emissions of the Irish car fleet is less than a drop in the ocean of global CO2 emissions. What did incentivising lower CO2 diesels achieve in this country? It must have been negligible. It definitely achieved poorer air quality locally in our urban areas though. It was a policy based on ideology, not logic. Surely you can't refute that?

almostover

Diesel exhaust is vastly cleaner because of systems which recirculate the particles back into the engine. Better than ejecting them into the air perhaps but it has lead to serious reliability issues. I had a diesel car back in the early 2010s that after 90k miles had an intake manifold that looked like the chimney from a Victorian steel mill. One person who didn't benefit from the diesel saga was the consumer, don't think the environment benefitted much either.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963779#Comment_121963779

So you moved somewhere without public transport and are complaining about there being no public transport...

... there's not a lot you can do about that ..

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963820#Comment_121963820

Sure isn't, but the price of housing dictated my choice of location. Twas either that or a life of exorbitant rents. I chose my poison, the car. Governance of this country has left many in the same position as me. In fact I'm doing better than most. But it galls me when those elected to serve the public are more interested in their parties ideology than policy that will help those that elected them.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963803#Comment_121963803

It's only cleaner if they haven't bypassed the system that make it cleaner. Owners or manufacturers.

Anaki r2d2

what an idiotic post. There is no point engaging with people like you.

Do you understand the property market in this country? Do you understand how shite public transport is outside of central dublin?

But hey ho, tax tax tax

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963779#Comment_121963779

While I agree that this policy puts the cart before the horse we need to prioritise mass public transport before we improve public transport to every village.

The congestion charge zone, if applied to the our 2nd largest city, won't begin at your village. Realistically there should be large park and rides at each major artery/entry point to the zone and it is up to people whether they stay in their car and pay or get out and pay the (presumably) cheaper public transport fare. I'd be very skeptical if any sort of alternative will be in place in advance of the introduction.

I guess the closest thing we have currently is the red line luas P&Rs but these wouldn't have the capacity to be offered as a reasonable alternative to every driver coming up the N7. Then again not every car will enter the city zone either.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963924#Comment_121963924

I use the park and ride from time to time in Cork, it's decent value. And yes you're right, these services should be at every major artery to our major cities, Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway. There isn't a hope in he'll those sort of services will be in place prior to any congestion charge introduction. That would make way too much sense.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963835#Comment_121963835

Take housing, what have any of the parties in Govt or in Opposition done about it. Very little.

Public transport has at least, improved. Its never going to be able to service all expansion before it happens.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121962726#Comment_121962726

Wait till you hear about buses.

AndrewJRenko

So you don't understand what "ability to protect yourself from effects of climate change" means then?

AndrewJRenko

Eamonn Ryan isn't coming to take your car away.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121962598#Comment_121962598

I'm not going to let you drag me off topic with your Pavlovian response. The reasons for the income gap are entirely irrelevant to the specific point under discussion here.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963790#Comment_121963790

You're correct, but no one need think that EV is the saviour of the Earth either.

Diesels now however are far cleaner than they were at the time of diesel gate lol.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964061#Comment_121964061

EVs are designed to save the motor industry, not save the planet.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963790#Comment_121963790

If the car companies didn't lie it would have achieved clearer air.

Surely you can't refute that?