Clean Air/Congestion Charging set to be introduced by 2030

MrMusician18

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/03/28/motorists-set-to-face-congestion-or-clean-air-zone-charges-under-new-traffic-plan/

Approval at cabinet was given yesterday for a strategy that will see council funding tied to implementing clean air and or congestion charging by 2030 as part of the sustainability push.

Even if it is some way off, I find it hard to see how a largely regressive taxation measure is going to go down well. Or maybe 2030 is too far away for people to care?

One eyed Jack

“Heavy traffic makes public transport less reliable, often discouraging people from using it, and makes the environment for vulnerable road users, such as pedestrians and cyclists, less safe, again leading people away from using active travel, particularly for shorter journeys,” the strategy says.

How is anyone supposed to take a report seriously with language like that in it? 😂

Mr Ryan said the approach of the strategy was “not about adding additional costs on motorists”.

It’s about adding additional costs on motorists so.

Kermit.de.frog

Another Green tax. The election can't come soon enough. These people don't even have 5% support among the electorate.

Meanwhile China on average opening 4 coal plants a week...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948269#Comment_121948269

TBH heavy traffic would make me more likely to use public transport, who wants to drive a car in heavy traffic, way prefer to sit back in bus and read listen to music etc... what planet are these guys on..

_Kaiser_

Eamon Ryan and his ideologues strike again - clearly determined to push as much through before they're booted out at the next election.

This piece caught my eye though..

The Government plans to engage with insurers to encourage a move away from car ownership and incentivise motorists to carpool with less costly premiums and to ease restrictions on newly qualified drivers who car-share.

.. What's that phrase? "You'll own nothing and be happy!"

Yet more taxes dressed up as saving "de environment" but which in reality will do very little except make life harder and more expensive for the majority. It's the Green Party Way.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948331#Comment_121948331

I'd rather be sitting in my car in comfort, with the heat/aircon as I want it, music or radio I want to listen to, with the flexibility of taking a different route to get to my ultimate destination if needed, and be guaranteed a seat every time.

Compare that to being squashed on a packed bus with standing room only, listening to whatever noise someone is playing on their phone speaker, and being either sweating or freezing for most of the trip - ie : your average peak time bus journey when this congestion occurs.

That's assuming that the bus shows up in the first place or that you'll be able to get on when it does. Dublin Bus and Go Ahead both can't get enough drivers.

No thank you. I put up with bus journeys for the best part of 30 years and the car (even with traffic) wins every time!

But if they're serious about trying to reduce traffic generally what they should be doing is things like incentivising WFH (and I don't mean the useless legislation that they brought in which only allows people to ask - as they always could!) or encouraging businesses that don't NEED to be in the city centres to relocate outside it (but that would mean they'd simultaneously have to stop repurposing every vacant commercial unit for IPA accommodation of course!)

As I said above, this is just another tax on the motorist who already pays a fortune to run a car.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948331#Comment_121948331

who wants to drive a car in heavy traffic

I don’t imagine anyone wants to drive a car in heavy traffic, it’s just the preferred mode of transport over public transport and… ahem, ‘active travel’ 😒

Although investment in transport infrastructure planned over the next two decades, such as the BusConnects programme, will result in a reduction in the rate of increase in the cost of congestion, the department’s report said it will not be sufficient on its own to lower levels of traffic congestion which will continue to deteriorate.

However, the rate of increase will also differ widely between users of different transport modes.

The results show the cost of congestion will grow for private cars and goods vehicles by 217 per cent and 666 per cent respectively by 2040. The figure for bus users is considerably less, at only 98 per cent over the same period.

…

The report said there had also been a significant increase in active travel journeys, such as walking and cycling, between 2012 and 2021, with such modes increasing from 21.9 per cent to 29.5 per cent over the period.

Although the figures suggest there has been a decrease in the reliance on private cars, they are still the primary mode of transport for almost six out of every 10 journeys.

While there was also an increase in numbers using public transport, they still only account for one in eight journeys.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-traffic-congestion-costs-to-increase-four-fold-to-over-e1-5bn-by-2040-1562025.html

Akrasia

On the flip side. Imagine being able to breath clean air and actually hold a conversation above the constant roar of traffic

Those eco maniacs....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948366#Comment_121948366

Well you have a very different commute to mine, I use Bus Eireann, illegal for everyone not to have a seat.. always have a seat, cold/hot never really had the problem, listening to other peoples music / chat, I just put in me earbuds :)

I commuted to work by car for years, and love the commute now.. setting aside the cost of diesel / petrol, I way prefer being able to take a little kip, read, surf etc etc than driving..

Each to their own I suppose... but anyway in my circumstance the twaternment's thinking doesnt make sense, and Im sure Im not the only one!

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948372#Comment_121948372

As more and more vehicles move to ev, the connection between heavy traffic and dirty air becomes less.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948383#Comment_121948383

To be fair, you can't really compare intercity trips and coaches with standard suburban buses or journeys.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948397#Comment_121948397

I wasnt, I just gave my opinion based on my commute.. if anyone is comparing, you are :)

Seth Brundle

Those blaming Ryan should bear in mind the first few words from the OP...

Approval at cabinet was given yesterday...

The Greens don't have superpowers that make other politicians do what they say so not sure why people constantly give them the credit for government decisions.

This was always going to happen anyhow. Too many cars on a limited urban road network. Plus the air quality in our cities does need to be addressed without question

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948409#Comment_121948409

The Greens, just as their last time in Government, are propping up this increasingly unpopular and unrepresentative arrangement.

Just as they messed around with the motor tax rates last time - massively incentivising diesels and devaluing otherwise perfectly good cars overnight in the process - they are hugely anti-car and their position in Government (but remember that only 7% of those who actually voted, supported them) gives them the platform and ability to push their agenda through. Because the other 2 need them or face an election , they go along with it.

Speaking of the Greens, Ryan on Newstalk now... More dramatics in the first 30 seconds - "our world is burning!"... Please!!

shimadzu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948409#Comment_121948409

The greens vote is required to get FF and FG policies over the line so there is a lot of you scratch my back I'll scratch yours agreements being made by the the current government parties. Having a party whip system ensures that even unpopular policies have a very good chance of getting through cabinet.

I live in a city center and public transport is a disaster, buses don't turn up at scheduled times, sometimes 2 or 3 of the same number bus turn up at once, during bad weather the buses don't stop if they are full and the bus service stops operating before pubs close. I'd prefer to use public transport but until I'm sure I can rely on it I can't take the risk on giving up on the car.

Inviere

It'll never happen, but what I wouldn't give to see investment in cutting edge/modern traffic management systems. Yes there's too many cars in the cities for what our roads are designed for, yes of course we do need to push for more sustainable transportation models for people....but our antiquated incompetent approach to traffic control is no innocent party here. You see it everywhere now around built up cities in Ireland, traffic lights plonked down without a second thought....traffic lights not linked together causing significant disruption/delays, traffic lights depending on road sensor inputs that pick up cars on the other side of the road, traffic light timers with predetermined cycles regardless of if there's people even at them or not, entire junctions stopping on all sides because there's pedestrian lights green for one of four points on the junction, a more recent bananas trend of putting traffic lights right at roundabout exits (there's no buffer for traffic to flow into, so the minute a pedestrian wishes to rightfully cross the road, the entire roundabout on entries grinds to a halt.) This has all contributed to a growing "I've had enough" approach that many motorists have with traffic lights, and you'll see people pushing their luck in ever reckless ways now going through red lights.

I'm not laying any blame on pedestrians, cyclists, or any other non-motorist groups here either...we're ALL entitled to be where we need to be on the roads/pathways....but I'd love to see it highlighted how badly our traffic management is, and how it too is a contributor to the mess in cities today. I know it's impractical, but I find myself thinking more often than not looking at green lights for empty roads (while a row of cars is stopped at a red), that a Raspberry Pi, some software, and a few webcams could just do a far better job.

ToweringPerformance

Election can't come quick enough. These Green's are insane and doing so much damage to the country.

Clo-Clo

The Green Party are a small player in the government, totally ridiculous for people to blame them for everything when they don't have a majoirty and can't pass anything without the other parties agreeing.

In terms of a congestion charge, is anyone actually surprised this has been on the cards for years and was always going to be put in place at some stage.

Who are you lot going to blame when the Green Party are out of government and these plans continue?

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948562#Comment_121948562

They might be a small player, but the other 2 parties are at their mercy. Their ideologies get pushed through because if ff/fg push back, the greens throw a strop and pull the plug. Which actually wouldn't be a bad thing imo, because this 3 party government or a government propped up by independents is no good for anyone and essentially creates an ineffective government.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948562#Comment_121948562

You're right there, this will happen even if the Greens only have 2 T.D's in the next Government.

If there is a congestion charge it should be either based on emissions or vehicle weight, isn't fair that 2.5tonne EV's can still clog up the roads without paying. And that all funds from the charge should go to the local councils for road improvements, Bus Gates and cycle lanes, wider paths for pedestrians..

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948552#Comment_121948552

Ryan was asked this morning about his meeting with other gov party leaders and trotted out the usual line that the government is going great etc blah blah

Interviewer didn't bother to ask at the rising discontent about housing and related immigration matters, didn't ask him about the ruination of tourism in several areas, didn't ask about his failed referendums, didn't probe him at all etc.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948562#Comment_121948562

People see the Greens for who they are now. They have given up on persuading the public of the merits of their policies, choosing instead to ram their policies in through legislation, put up with the resultant shYtshow and hope that solutions follow after.

Homesick Alien

The only way this can be seen as regressive is insofar as it should have been introduced years ago, like London.

Everytime there is a progressive climate/health friendly measure planned it's decried by the usual mob as "destroying the country" which would be hilarious if it wasn't so depressing.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948649#Comment_121948649

I don't understand the cosy relationship between media and government and why they continually give them an easy ride during interviews. Okay maybe somewhat explainable for RTE as they need money, but for the others it makes no sense.

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948269#Comment_121948269

That needs to be more specific. For example, heavy traffic does not make trains less reliable. The above statement disagrees.

opinionated3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948372#Comment_121948372

I can do all that in the privacy of my own car.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948660#Comment_121948660

the few of us who voted for the greens are delighted with these measures, this is why we voted for them. do you think people who voted for them are angry now with what they're doing or something? when people go on about them being wiped out in the next election, i mean what did people who voted for them last time think they were going to do? not follow through on any of their manifesto?

with the new cycling infrastructure near me, pedestrianisation, improvements in public transport, hopefully the metro to actually happen this time, they've been doing a great job for a tiny minority party in government.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948706#Comment_121948706

This is what people are struggling with, the Greens got votes to implement measures like this. The people that don't vote the Green Party moan about it. But sure they moan about it anyway.

Like we had a poster on here moaning about no greenway in his area, yet they had never voted for the Green Party and it was the Green Party fault they had no greenway

Now if you can work that one out you are better than me

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948660#Comment_121948660

They are implementing project which are environmentally friendly, which as a party which is based on environmentally friendly policies are they not doing exactly what they should be doing?

Or what are you struggling with here?

Even in terms of that, they are a small player and can't implement anything without approval of the other parties.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948643#Comment_121948643

What exactly is the 2.5tonne EV not paying for that a 2.5 combustion car is?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948706#Comment_121948706

Sure it's the tail wagging the dog and sooner or later the dog will cop on. I'm delighted for you with your new cycling infrastructure, pedestrianisation, improvements in public transport etc etc Grand

But these policies have effects elsewhere as well where we don't have and will never have new cycling infrastructure near me, pedestrianisation, improvements in public transport.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948736#Comment_121948736

You what?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948732#Comment_121948732

Firstly you persuade citizens that these are the best measures, then you make sure you set up valid alternatives that are fair to all and then you legislate for change. The Greens have this arse ways, like SF would do with a border poll - they view legislation as a battering ram to force change and then hope things work out OK after.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948745#Comment_121948745

You posted "If there is a congestion charge it should be either based on emissions or vehicle weight, isn't fair that 2.5tonne EV's can still clog up the roads without paying."

So what is a 2.5 EV not paying for? compared to a 2.5 tonne combustion?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948761#Comment_121948761

First off SF will never achieve a border poll. They are too incompetent.

Second off how long is the congestion charge been discussed in Dublin now for?

You put in a cycle lane and people moan & bitch about it for months, then when it is installed and wroking the same people via gritted teeth might admit it was actually a good idea. A government leads the people.

If they didnt we would still be swimming in a sea of plastic bags and smoke filled pubs

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948778#Comment_121948778

I know what I posted thanks. I'm sure you're well able to answer that one for yourself.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948804#Comment_121948804

Maybe then update the original post as it was clearly incorrect to single out electric cars

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948813#Comment_121948813

Won't be updating anything. Large/Heavy electric vehicles can't be exempted from a congestion charge as they still contribute to congestion and produce particulate matter pollution from tyres/brakes.

In London who have Ulez/Congestion charges; "from 25 December 2025, the Cleaner Vehicle discount will end. After this date, all electric vehicles – including pure battery electric vehicles–will no longer be exempt, and EV drivers will have to pay the congestion charge"

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948837#Comment_121948837

We are in Ireland, not London.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948867#Comment_121948867

Thanks for the Geography lesson Pal.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948596#Comment_121948596

The Green Party know this is their chance to implement policies and in all probability wont be in next government

So the cries we hear of the Green Party forcing the other parties is incorrect, FF and FG have a way better odds of making the next government post election. So how would the Green party have power or why would they pull the plug?

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948649#Comment_121948649

I've more or less given in listening to radio or watching Irish political "debate" on TV. It's all just one way traffic and terrible to witness. We haven't any proper journalists left at this stage bar Gript who seem to be asking some hard questions of our elected leaders.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948666#Comment_121948666

A lot of these "journalists" (yeah i know) aren't paid particularly well and the end game is a job in FG/FF/Greens's etc... PR department and the fat cosy pension and pay packet that comes with it. They aren't getting that if they rock the boat and ask the hard questions we all deserve to have answered by our elected representatives. The illusion of a free press is just that, an illusion.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948353#Comment_121948353

The Government plans to engage with insurers to encourage a move away from car ownership and incentivise motorists to carpool with less costly premiums and to ease restrictions on newly qualified drivers who car-share.

Not a fan of the greens but this is awful misinformation. The actual proposal is to stop insurers from doing away with your no claims bonus if you have a gap of insurance (and car ownership). If you are off the road or sell the car for a while, you shouldn't be punished by insurers and lose your NCB. This is a good thing, one less thing for insurance companies to shaft us with.

How anyone can be against this specifically is mind boggling

opinionated3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949009#Comment_121949009

What will probably actually happen is those that choose to drive their own cars to work on their own will be hit with higher insurance premiums. So Ryan is wrong yet again.... It is anti motorist.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949009#Comment_121949009

In that context I would absolutely agree that that change is overdue and welcome - but that's not how the article put it at all. The piece I quoted is what they said, but it's also completely different to the reality then as you outline it.

spurious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948741#Comment_121948741

No improvement in public transport in the North Strand, at the epicentre of the sh!tshow that is the Clontarf to City Centre cycle lane. They removed bus stops and when Green party councillors were contacted to help reinstate them, they didn't even know where we were talking about. Their canvassers were rightly run out of our street last night.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949035#Comment_121949035

How would that happen?

How will insurers know if you drive your own car alone to work?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949040#Comment_121949040

There are loads of articles out on it over the last few days, it's mentioned in one, I'll try and find.

The idea they'll just further load car insurance is nonsense. They will push for EVs, but not push for less vehicles as the govt needs tax income from car sales too. They will already have a huge whole in finances from move away from petrol/diesel. They will add more tolls or higher motor tax, they will not instruct insurers to increase insurance just for the sake of it.

The Irish insurance industry badly needs sorted out also, only way it's in any way reasonable is if you have a big NCB. That you lose it if you have a year or more of no insurance, because you are abroad or without a car etc.. daylight robbery

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948799#Comment_121948799

"If they didnt we would still be swimming in a sea of plastic bags and smoke filled pubs"

These entailed a change in habits for some people, they didn't involve considerable extra cost & inconvenience for most.

Why don't you instance the 'light bulbs' or the 'diesel tax incentives' or 'carbon tax' projects of the Greens??

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949151#Comment_121949151

Plastic bags levy was by definition an extra cost!

Light bulbs? Not sure what light bulbs have been made mandatory, but at this stage if you aren't buying LEDs you are pissing away your own money

ballyharpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948331#Comment_121948331

well, that's the conundrum they are facing, when traffic congestion improves , people go back to cars,and stop using public transport/cycling, reversing the improvement, then it reverses, people being charged a congestion charge are less likely to return to car usage, public transport remains a faster, more reliable form of transport, and it remains that way. what many people fail to post/read/acknowledge, is that the legislation clearly states that cars will continue to be needed for rural areas, and it is only going to apply to urban/city areas where the numbers call for it. Also, people don't seem to realize that these are not just 'green' policies, these are policies to improve everyone's quality of life, including everyone's mental and physical health. It also improves business in any area it has been implemented , people that may have been against it for some 'cer centric reason/fear' actually appreciate what can be offered in town centers when there are less unhealthy emissions of fumes and noise, as well as the amount of space needed to just park cars every day and these car parks are turned into homes.