Clean Air/Congestion Charging set to be introduced by 2030

MrMusician18

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/03/28/motorists-set-to-face-congestion-or-clean-air-zone-charges-under-new-traffic-plan/

Approval at cabinet was given yesterday for a strategy that will see council funding tied to implementing clean air and or congestion charging by 2030 as part of the sustainability push.

Even if it is some way off, I find it hard to see how a largely regressive taxation measure is going to go down well. Or maybe 2030 is too far away for people to care?

One eyed Jack

“Heavy traffic makes public transport less reliable, often discouraging people from using it, and makes the environment for vulnerable road users, such as pedestrians and cyclists, less safe, again leading people away from using active travel, particularly for shorter journeys,” the strategy says.

How is anyone supposed to take a report seriously with language like that in it? 😂

Mr Ryan said the approach of the strategy was “not about adding additional costs on motorists”.

It’s about adding additional costs on motorists so.

Kermit.de.frog

Another Green tax. The election can't come soon enough. These people don't even have 5% support among the electorate.

Meanwhile China on average opening 4 coal plants a week...

well24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948269#Comment_121948269

TBH heavy traffic would make me more likely to use public transport, who wants to drive a car in heavy traffic, way prefer to sit back in bus and read listen to music etc... what planet are these guys on..

_Kaiser_

Eamon Ryan and his ideologues strike again - clearly determined to push as much through before they're booted out at the next election.

This piece caught my eye though..

The Government plans to engage with insurers to encourage a move away from car ownership and incentivise motorists to carpool with less costly premiums and to ease restrictions on newly qualified drivers who car-share.

.. What's that phrase? "You'll own nothing and be happy!"

Yet more taxes dressed up as saving "de environment" but which in reality will do very little except make life harder and more expensive for the majority. It's the Green Party Way.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948331#Comment_121948331

I'd rather be sitting in my car in comfort, with the heat/aircon as I want it, music or radio I want to listen to, with the flexibility of taking a different route to get to my ultimate destination if needed, and be guaranteed a seat every time.

Compare that to being squashed on a packed bus with standing room only, listening to whatever noise someone is playing on their phone speaker, and being either sweating or freezing for most of the trip - ie : your average peak time bus journey when this congestion occurs.

That's assuming that the bus shows up in the first place or that you'll be able to get on when it does. Dublin Bus and Go Ahead both can't get enough drivers.

No thank you. I put up with bus journeys for the best part of 30 years and the car (even with traffic) wins every time!

But if they're serious about trying to reduce traffic generally what they should be doing is things like incentivising WFH (and I don't mean the useless legislation that they brought in which only allows people to ask - as they always could!) or encouraging businesses that don't NEED to be in the city centres to relocate outside it (but that would mean they'd simultaneously have to stop repurposing every vacant commercial unit for IPA accommodation of course!)

As I said above, this is just another tax on the motorist who already pays a fortune to run a car.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948331#Comment_121948331

who wants to drive a car in heavy traffic

I don’t imagine anyone wants to drive a car in heavy traffic, it’s just the preferred mode of transport over public transport and… ahem, ‘active travel’ 😒

Although investment in transport infrastructure planned over the next two decades, such as the BusConnects programme, will result in a reduction in the rate of increase in the cost of congestion, the department’s report said it will not be sufficient on its own to lower levels of traffic congestion which will continue to deteriorate.

However, the rate of increase will also differ widely between users of different transport modes.

The results show the cost of congestion will grow for private cars and goods vehicles by 217 per cent and 666 per cent respectively by 2040. The figure for bus users is considerably less, at only 98 per cent over the same period.

…

The report said there had also been a significant increase in active travel journeys, such as walking and cycling, between 2012 and 2021, with such modes increasing from 21.9 per cent to 29.5 per cent over the period.

Although the figures suggest there has been a decrease in the reliance on private cars, they are still the primary mode of transport for almost six out of every 10 journeys.

While there was also an increase in numbers using public transport, they still only account for one in eight journeys.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-traffic-congestion-costs-to-increase-four-fold-to-over-e1-5bn-by-2040-1562025.html

Akrasia

On the flip side. Imagine being able to breath clean air and actually hold a conversation above the constant roar of traffic

Those eco maniacs....

well24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948366#Comment_121948366

Well you have a very different commute to mine, I use Bus Eireann, illegal for everyone not to have a seat.. always have a seat, cold/hot never really had the problem, listening to other peoples music / chat, I just put in me earbuds :)

I commuted to work by car for years, and love the commute now.. setting aside the cost of diesel / petrol, I way prefer being able to take a little kip, read, surf etc etc than driving..

Each to their own I suppose... but anyway in my circumstance the twaternment's thinking doesnt make sense, and Im sure Im not the only one!

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948372#Comment_121948372

As more and more vehicles move to ev, the connection between heavy traffic and dirty air becomes less.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948383#Comment_121948383

To be fair, you can't really compare intercity trips and coaches with standard suburban buses or journeys.

well24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948397#Comment_121948397

I wasnt, I just gave my opinion based on my commute.. if anyone is comparing, you are :)

Seth Brundle

Those blaming Ryan should bear in mind the first few words from the OP...

Approval at cabinet was given yesterday...

The Greens don't have superpowers that make other politicians do what they say so not sure why people constantly give them the credit for government decisions.

This was always going to happen anyhow. Too many cars on a limited urban road network. Plus the air quality in our cities does need to be addressed without question

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948409#Comment_121948409

The Greens, just as their last time in Government, are propping up this increasingly unpopular and unrepresentative arrangement.

Just as they messed around with the motor tax rates last time - massively incentivising diesels and devaluing otherwise perfectly good cars overnight in the process - they are hugely anti-car and their position in Government (but remember that only 7% of those who actually voted, supported them) gives them the platform and ability to push their agenda through. Because the other 2 need them or face an election , they go along with it.

Speaking of the Greens, Ryan on Newstalk now... More dramatics in the first 30 seconds - "our world is burning!"... Please!!

shimadzu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948409#Comment_121948409

The greens vote is required to get FF and FG policies over the line so there is a lot of you scratch my back I'll scratch yours agreements being made by the the current government parties. Having a party whip system ensures that even unpopular policies have a very good chance of getting through cabinet.

I live in a city center and public transport is a disaster, buses don't turn up at scheduled times, sometimes 2 or 3 of the same number bus turn up at once, during bad weather the buses don't stop if they are full and the bus service stops operating before pubs close. I'd prefer to use public transport but until I'm sure I can rely on it I can't take the risk on giving up on the car.

Inviere

It'll never happen, but what I wouldn't give to see investment in cutting edge/modern traffic management systems. Yes there's too many cars in the cities for what our roads are designed for, yes of course we do need to push for more sustainable transportation models for people....but our antiquated incompetent approach to traffic control is no innocent party here. You see it everywhere now around built up cities in Ireland, traffic lights plonked down without a second thought....traffic lights not linked together causing significant disruption/delays, traffic lights depending on road sensor inputs that pick up cars on the other side of the road, traffic light timers with predetermined cycles regardless of if there's people even at them or not, entire junctions stopping on all sides because there's pedestrian lights green for one of four points on the junction, a more recent bananas trend of putting traffic lights right at roundabout exits (there's no buffer for traffic to flow into, so the minute a pedestrian wishes to rightfully cross the road, the entire roundabout on entries grinds to a halt.) This has all contributed to a growing "I've had enough" approach that many motorists have with traffic lights, and you'll see people pushing their luck in ever reckless ways now going through red lights.

I'm not laying any blame on pedestrians, cyclists, or any other non-motorist groups here either...we're ALL entitled to be where we need to be on the roads/pathways....but I'd love to see it highlighted how badly our traffic management is, and how it too is a contributor to the mess in cities today. I know it's impractical, but I find myself thinking more often than not looking at green lights for empty roads (while a row of cars is stopped at a red), that a Raspberry Pi, some software, and a few webcams could just do a far better job.

ToweringPerformance

Election can't come quick enough. These Green's are insane and doing so much damage to the country.

Clo-Clo

The Green Party are a small player in the government, totally ridiculous for people to blame them for everything when they don't have a majoirty and can't pass anything without the other parties agreeing.

In terms of a congestion charge, is anyone actually surprised this has been on the cards for years and was always going to be put in place at some stage.

Who are you lot going to blame when the Green Party are out of government and these plans continue?

BolloxChop

But lads just remember. If you give money to the government they'll cool down the planet....

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948562#Comment_121948562

They might be a small player, but the other 2 parties are at their mercy. Their ideologies get pushed through because if ff/fg push back, the greens throw a strop and pull the plug. Which actually wouldn't be a bad thing imo, because this 3 party government or a government propped up by independents is no good for anyone and essentially creates an ineffective government.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948562#Comment_121948562

You're right there, this will happen even if the Greens only have 2 T.D's in the next Government.

If there is a congestion charge it should be either based on emissions or vehicle weight, isn't fair that 2.5tonne EV's can still clog up the roads without paying. And that all funds from the charge should go to the local councils for road improvements, Bus Gates and cycle lanes, wider paths for pedestrians..

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948552#Comment_121948552

Ryan was asked this morning about his meeting with other gov party leaders and trotted out the usual line that the government is going great etc blah blah

Interviewer didn't bother to ask at the rising discontent about housing and related immigration matters, didn't ask him about the ruination of tourism in several areas, didn't ask about his failed referendums, didn't probe him at all etc.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948562#Comment_121948562

People see the Greens for who they are now. They have given up on persuading the public of the merits of their policies, choosing instead to ram their policies in through legislation, put up with the resultant shYtshow and hope that solutions follow after.

Homesick Alien

The only way this can be seen as regressive is insofar as it should have been introduced years ago, like London.

Everytime there is a progressive climate/health friendly measure planned it's decried by the usual mob as "destroying the country" which would be hilarious if it wasn't so depressing.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948649#Comment_121948649

I don't understand the cosy relationship between media and government and why they continually give them an easy ride during interviews. Okay maybe somewhat explainable for RTE as they need money, but for the others it makes no sense.

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948269#Comment_121948269

That needs to be more specific. For example, heavy traffic does not make trains less reliable. The above statement disagrees.

opinionated3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948372#Comment_121948372

I can do all that in the privacy of my own car.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948660#Comment_121948660

the few of us who voted for the greens are delighted with these measures, this is why we voted for them. do you think people who voted for them are angry now with what they're doing or something? when people go on about them being wiped out in the next election, i mean what did people who voted for them last time think they were going to do? not follow through on any of their manifesto?

with the new cycling infrastructure near me, pedestrianisation, improvements in public transport, hopefully the metro to actually happen this time, they've been doing a great job for a tiny minority party in government.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948706#Comment_121948706

This is what people are struggling with, the Greens got votes to implement measures like this. The people that don't vote the Green Party moan about it. But sure they moan about it anyway.

Like we had a poster on here moaning about no greenway in his area, yet they had never voted for the Green Party and it was the Green Party fault they had no greenway

Now if you can work that one out you are better than me

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948660#Comment_121948660

They are implementing project which are environmentally friendly, which as a party which is based on environmentally friendly policies are they not doing exactly what they should be doing?

Or what are you struggling with here?

Even in terms of that, they are a small player and can't implement anything without approval of the other parties.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948643#Comment_121948643

What exactly is the 2.5tonne EV not paying for that a 2.5 combustion car is?