Clean Air/Congestion Charging set to be introduced by 2030

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968958#Comment_121968958

This sounds like a rant deep down the rabbit hole of an "Environmental Culture war"… Attacking active travel measures as part of that war, attacking the Green party as a religious cult … this deserves it's own thread surely… ?

This isn't good for mental health…

magicbastarder

he is of course, correct, that the bollards should not be there. there should simply be a mandatory bike lane painted there and motorists should obey it. but they don't; too many motorists feel entitled to park their cars wherever they damn well please, and the gardai don't police that. so the only other option to keep the lane clear for cyclists would appear to be bollards, which the gardai (ostensibly) then complain about. the gardai complaining about a measure put inn which in theory has saved them manpower in the long run, would be rich, if it's true.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969051#Comment_121969051

I'm sure there's 100's of examples of road design that people don't like which could fill boards.ie.. My point is that it's like a Culture war being fought here with the oppressed motorcar driver on one side and the righteous bicyclist on the other led by their messiah Eamon Ryan…

It would be funny apart from the de-humanising of a tiny minority of road users that can lead to serious conflict out on the road…

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968029#Comment_121968029

Dieselgate wasn't restricted to VAG

"hard core fan-bots" 🙄

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968813#Comment_121968813

Yet the people who are spamming all social media across the web refer to environmentalist as "hard core fan-bots" 🤣

The irony

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968457#Comment_121968457

The reason why they have bollards is because people will use them and knock down people. Road safety is why and based on drivers a very good reason why

If you don't believe me watch a bus lane for about 20 mins in any traffic, busy or not and see people sailing up it.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969379#Comment_121969379

Just part of the terms used in the "War" being raged across the Internet being brought into debates online, the war against Environmental science now dragged into the political area.. I dare say some are probably "Red Cap" wearing supporters too..

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968958#Comment_121968958

I drive in the city every day, if you have an emergency vehicle 50% of the people will just totally ignore them, others will move out of the way, of course if they are on the M50 you have a mad rush of people to try chase the emergency vehicle down the road in the path they have tried to create.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968876#Comment_121968876

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968881#Comment_121968881

The poster was asked a specific question, which they answered:

Can you point to any specific locations where the presence of a bike lane has caused congestion that wouldn't have been there previously?

They responded by providing just such a specific example of a road that did not have congestion previously (or at least had less) but after bike lanes went in the road became so congested that emergency services vehicles could not get through it anymore.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968958#Comment_121968958

Do any of the articles about the brawl actually mention cycle lanes.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968845#Comment_121968845

There are loads of office parks and businesses around east wall and in the port. Lots of people living in the area.

Why would it in only be used for the port. Makes no sense.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949571#Comment_121949571

I'd question the better handling bit? A quasi off road crossover style EV will not handle better than a low slung car that is half its weight, also in terms of responsive, a heavier object is not as responsive to changes in direction.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969927#Comment_121969927

I wasn't talking about Crossovers.

A Golf TDI for instance is 1375kg based on a quick google, a eGolf is 1510kg

Not close to half it weight

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969619#Comment_121969619

There is no difference in congestion, there is just now less ability to spill over into footpaths.

The congestion remains the same as a result of too many cars

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970049#Comment_121970049

According to the poster, there was more congestion after the changes than before. Ergo congestion was caused by the changes.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970099#Comment_121970099

There has been bad congestion on these roads long before cycle lanes and bus lanes.

So bad there was no room for cycling or buses. All that's happening is some road space has now been reserved for other road users.

So no congestion wasn't "caused" by changes.

It has made it worse for cars, but better for other road users.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969993#Comment_121969993

Basically the difference of two passengers.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968845#Comment_121968845

As it happens, I don't know either location well enough to make any sensible comment.

On the general issue, it's really hard to take the 'cycle lanes delaying emergency vehicles' as a good faith argument.

What delays emergency vehicles 99% of the time is cars and vans and trucks, the normal everyday vehicles on our congested roads, every day. Parked vehicles and idiot drivers who ignore yellow boxes are a particular challenge too.

https://twitter.com/DubFireBrigade/status/1775214293689975280?s=20

If people are REALLY concerned about access to emergency vehicles, we need to have less cars on the road - so promoting alternative means of travel can only be a good thing.

If we want emergency vehicles to be making less emergency trips, we need to have a healthier population, so promoting alternative means of travel that result in dramatic reductions in stroke, hypertension, cancer, diabetes, coronary heart disease and more can only be a good thing.

If we don't want cycle lanes with bollards, then we need drivers to respect basic traffic markings and not park on cycle lanes and footpaths.

Some people seem to take a very blinkered view, to suit their own agenda.

On the traffic survey numbers, how many people would need to be involved in faking the results of a survey like this? Do you not think that any one of the five or ten people that would be involved would leak the fact of any faked survey to the press or to the Ditch or whoever?

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969993#Comment_121969993

An eGolf is a limited range EV with a small battery and not properly reflective of the normal EV's out there.

But as that is your selection:

Your selected eGolf 0 to 100 kmph is 9.6, maximum speed of 150 kmph, range 201.2 km

Golf 2.0 TDI Bluemotion 0 to 100 kmph 8.6, maximum speed of 214 kmph, range 1,086.96 km

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970140#Comment_121970140

I suspect the Gardai that were stuck in traffic trying to get to that beach might consider this to be pointless hair splitting, as might all the other people stuck in congestion that hadn't existed previously. But we know that the congestion got worse even though the number of drivers presumably stayed the same. So it's clearly not the drivers.

I find your phrasing to be quite weird, you seem to be insinuating that "cars" are road users. Last I checked, cars were not sentient beings acting on their own impetus but in fact were being driven by and carrying people. So the last line of your argument might have made more sense if it read: "It has made it worse for motorists, but better for other road users."

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970426#Comment_121970426

Why not compare it to the Mk7.5 GTI or the ID3 GTX performance if straight line speed is the metric.

The comment was about handling and the Mk7.5 golf is the same platform in terms of handling. Quicker off the line and very slightly heavier.

If you want performance and handling buy the GTI etc. though I dunno if most people will using the top speed. That's all top trumps.

Also which exhaust do you want to be inhaling in traffic, or walking past it.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970509#Comment_121970509

I do find it strange that a two lane road became completely blocked for no reason and that the congested traffic couldn't have pulled into the gaps on the road between the bollards to let the AGS cars by (or that the AGS cars couldn't have used the cycle path & footpath as they have done elsewhere).

In addition, given that the bollarded sections are only along a few stretches of the along the Howth Road and not continuous and were (as already mentioned) placed there mainly to prevent illegal parking. What would have happened had there been no bollards but the road width constrained by illegally parked cars?

Nonetheless, I'm struggling to find a single article that refers to the brawl on the Burrow Beach also referring to AGS being delayed getting there (and the cause of the delays). Maybe you or Tenzor can provide us all with an actual source?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970426#Comment_121970426

I am speaking from experience, something which I think you are lacking in this scenario

Below is a better view of the range on eGolf's.

In terms of 0-100km I am not a racing driver so I don't care. In terms of max speed thats 120kmph

You made a comment about weight, it was incorrect, so maybe admit that and move on.

I would hazard I guess I have done more mileage in a combustion Golf and an eGolf than you so better to leave it at that

https://ev-database.org/car/1087/Volkswagen-e-Golf

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970517#Comment_121970517

The ID is a different platform, in the ID they used more steel because weight was not as much as issue with electric to combustion.

So to make a comparison of electric to combustion the eGolf v Golf seemed an excellent choice. Plus I had personal experience.

Even at that, the ID.3 which has replaced the eGolf is starting at 1770kg, still a long way from twice the combustion car which was the original claim. Also the plan by VW is to bring back the eGolf and I can't wait. 😂

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970426#Comment_121970426

Like others have alluded to; is the acceleration and top speed of the ICE car meant to suggest it's a better car?

I've never once hit the top speed of my car, nor have I ever accelerated it to 100 maxed out. I have no desire to achieve either of those goals.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970704#Comment_121970704

Nope, wasn't me.. It was a reply to someone using isolated incidents like this as a rant against the use of plastic bollards or something…

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971344#Comment_121971344

Apologies, it was Beta Ray Bill that made the allegation.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970517#Comment_121970517

I didn't pick the pair, the poster I responded to did when I responded to him saying that "The majority of electric cars are faster, better handling, more responsive than a diesel car will ever be."

They picked an eGolf V a TDI Golf in response, they are clearly wrong.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971092#Comment_121971092

Well when the poster I replied to said "The majority of electric cars are faster, better handling, more responsive than a diesel car will ever be." They selected acceleration and top speed not me, and also picked the two cars to compare.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970917#Comment_121970917

Re read your original claim:

"The majority of electric cars are faster, better handling, more responsive than a diesel car will ever be."

You picked the eGolf & TDI, the electric variant is slower, heavier so will handle worse and be less responsive.

My comment about weight, on average is correct, EV's are heavier, you claimed that EV's out handle a diesel, how?

Three points you made

Faster: Now you say you are not a racing driver so 0-60 or top speed are out

Better Handling: How does the heavier car handle better, especially when the platform is identical?

More Responsive: As above