World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) Files

MilkyToast

As Cass pointed out in her report, the WPATH 'model' has relied on an incestuous circle of legitimacy-laundering, where a small group of ideologically captured bodies (WPATH chief among them) quote from other bodies, who happen to be basing their evidence on quotes from the first body and so on.

Hopefully that will be taken into account by the HSE, but it's hard to say. Ireland jumped the shark in 2015 by allowing activist groups to lobby 'under the radar' to change the law so that any man or woman could pay a fiver and have themselves legally declared the opposite sex. It will be very incongruous to have a legal system that insists that sex can be changed and a medical sector that rightly recognises that it cannot and that individuals suffering with feelings of gender incongruence require serious psychiatric and psychological help. It's possible that harms will continue here while we fight to have the law changed. The saving grace is that the health system in this country is such a shambles that people with psychological issues related to the concept of gender are reliant on other countries' health systems to provide them with support, and many of those other countries are starting to about-face on irreversible physical interventions.

One particular concern is that our curriculum currently teaches mythical 'gender identity' as fact at secondary level and will soon begin to do so at primary level, and we've had several spats about 'affirming' children and teachers in their asserted trans identity. Cass points out that social transition in children poses risk of serious psychological harm, so this needs to be urgently addressed.

But - this is Ireland. It wouldn't be the first time that a serious failure regarding the rights and wellbeing of children and women was allowed to go on for fear of transgressing against ideological dogma, and it likely won't be the last.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004617#Comment_122004617

Have you ever considered that children who are social transitioning are at the risk of serious psychological harm because people like yourself give them abuse?

ceadaoin.

No one is giving children abuse. Please point out the abuse in the post you are referencing because I don't see any? Saying or even just having the opinion that a medical practice is unethical and wrong isn't abuse. Its past time this nonsense of "no debate" and labelling any dissent as abuse and violence stopped. It doesn't work anymore. The cass report confirms what many on here and elsewhere have been saying for years now.

What's actually abuse is giving experimental treatments to children which result in infertility and long term detrimental physical and mental effects, when for the majority they didn't even need it in the first place. Yet another study has shown that most kids grow out of gender dysphoria and questioning. We are sitting on a timebomb of damaged and angry adults who were set on this path unnecessarily. The floodgates will open soon and the lawsuits and backtracking will start.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-024-02817-5

El Gato De Negocios

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006113#Comment_122006113

Its the typical M.O., throw out completely inaccurate statements to try and shame people into silence, it's pathetic, utterly transparent and thankfully people are wise to it.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006113#Comment_122006113

A large part of the reason children who are social transitioning suffer psychological harm is because there are plenty of people who tell then that everyone who has gender incongruence requires serious psychiatric and psychological help because what they are feeling about gender identity is "mythical". People with those opinions don't care about the health and wellbeing of children.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006254#Comment_122006254

Better tell that to Dr Cass because that's not the conclusion she came to after a years long look at all the evidence. Obviously you know better

Again, please quote the "abuse" in the post you referenced

plodder

I don't think anyone is saying that what gender questioning children are feeling is mythical. They are saying the education curriculum is teaching the myth that these feelings are necessarily permanent and can't be questioned or probed.

One of the extraordinary things about the Cass report was the lack of co-operation from all the adult gender clinics (bar one) to provide the data that might have helped clarify that exact point. Cass described their refusal as "ideological", which doesn't sound to me like they have the health and wellbeing of children at heart.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006280#Comment_122006280

Doctor Cass never questioned the essential need for gender dysphoria treatment up to and Including gender realignment. Never.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006254#Comment_122006254

No, the reason anyone who fell into the clutches of these predators like Mermaids (who are backpedaling so hard right now) is harmed is purely down to the ideology that they were somehow “born in the wrong body”. No, they’re not. They just don’t conform to outdated sex based stereotypes.

If your daughter says she wants to get a buzz cut, dress in trousers and watch Arsenal - tell her she is perfectly normal and still a girl.

If your son wants a Carol Decker head full of curls, to go to school as Elsa from Frozen and have a favourite doll he dresses up - tell him he’s perfectly normal and still a boy.

Your kids might be gay, they might straight. Both are equally fine and if they are happy, well adjusted due to your love and NOT maimed - then well done, you’ve done your job.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006345#Comment_122006345

Oh well that’s a damned lie.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006365#Comment_122006365

That the absolute truth and the reason she recommended an expansion of services.

Inconvenient truths for those who claim she vindicated their bigotry.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006422#Comment_122006422

Did she say it was for a small number of people who are genuinely medically assessed as having gender dysphoria and going down a properly assessed pharmaceutical pathway - or are you trying to justify the harm caused to kids who didn’t conform to old fashioned stereotypes???

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006446#Comment_122006446

I am saying that she acknowledged the reality and the need for gender reassignment surgery. She pointed out that service levels were significantly inadequate and that the lack of services was causing significant harm to people referred for assessment. This was her key finding.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006469#Comment_122006469

And would you acknowledge that it was because kids who DIDNT have GD were pushed to these services due to not conforming to these stereotypes meaning genuinely transsexual people had to wait ??

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005909#Comment_122005909

Since I've never given any child abuse for any reason, no, I haven't. That would be a very stupid thing to consider.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006254#Comment_122006254

This isn't backed by any evidence. It's just a story TRAs tell themselves whenever people point out that agreeing with children when they tell you there's something wrong with their healthy body is profoundly abusive.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006484#Comment_122006484

Not remotely.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006469#Comment_122006469

One of her recommendations, actually, was that an interim service should be put in place for people between the ages of 18 and 25 in recognition of the fact that the prefrontal cortex is not fully matured until 25 and so decisions made before then are especially risky when they involve permanent physical changes, especially those that may lead to sterilisation.

Which is just common sense if you've lived long enough past 18-25 to realise you'd hate to be permanently stuck with most of the decisions you made back then.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006345#Comment_122006345

What are you you on about? Did I say she did? Please quote where I said that. Thanks

I was talking about the psychological harms from social transitioning and how Dr Cass doesn't ascribe them as coming from what that poster claimed

Clearly, for a small number of (adult) people,medical transition is the right choice. A small number. Nowhere near the amount of kids who are currently being set on this path, based on little more than teen angst, confusion about their sexuality and what toys they like to play with. Questioning this is not abuse.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006623#Comment_122006623

Its just so weird how this is in any way controversial. They are children and are incapable of making these types of decisions, which is widely accepted when it comes to anything else. Why is this so different?

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006763#Comment_122006763

I wish I thought it weird. Ten years ago I might have, but I've become much more jaded about political influences since then.

Perhaps the worst thing is that there's not a single thing in the Cass Review that we didn't already know; that anyone who cared to look couldn't have known very easily.

To see people who spent the last few years turning away as a gun was slowly loaded, aimed at children and young people, the trigger slowly squeezed… now decide they simply cannot stand by any more because this particular smoking gun has been pointed to by someone credentialed and eminent enough that they cannot ignore it…. well. I'm not a very forgiving person anyway, so I won't say what I think of them and what should happen to them, other than to say that the first criminal investigation into practitioners of "affirmation-only" medical care for children who are gender confused started in Florence, Italy this week - and I think that's a good thing, long overdue.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006113#Comment_122006113

Its past time this nonsense of "no debate" and labelling any dissent as abuse and violence stopped. It doesn't work anymore…

…

What's actually abuse…

Interesting that you imagine you’re in a position to decide what does or doesn’t constitute abuse. Just coincidental of course that it happens to align with your own standards.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/09/23/texas-transgender-child-abuse-investigations/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006363#Comment_122006363

If your son wants a Carol Decker head full of curls, to go to school as Elsa from Frozen and have a favourite doll he dresses up - tell him he’s perfectly normal and still a boy.

Why would anyone do that? Clearly somethings not right there. I’d be mortified if my son were mistaken for Mick Hucknall 😳

Your kids might be gay, they might straight. Both are equally fine and if they are happy, well adjusted due to your love and NOT maimed - then well done, you’ve done your job.

I’d have concerns for any adult who is dependent upon validation from strangers on the Internet. The children will be fine, the adults on the other hand…. 🤨

gym_imposter

Graham Linehan can take a bow after this report

To think of all the " current thing " social media wanker5 who gave him hell for several years

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006838#Comment_122006838

Here's some more information about that Florence case (which I didn't know about before, so thanks for that):

https://www.genderclinicnews.com/p/crime-scene

https://www.genderclinicnews.com/p/back-to-best

A criminal investigation has been opened following an audit of the gender clinic at Florence’s Careggi hospital, according to the newspaper Corriere della Sera. The puberty blocker drug triptorelin had been authorised for off-label use in 2019 by the Italian Medicines Agency (Aifa), subject to psychological and psychotherapeutic support and diagnosis by a multidisciplinary team involving a child neuropsychiatrist. However, the newspaper said two Careggi gender doctors had declared psychotherapy unnecessary and stated that the child neuropsychiatrist visited only once a month. The audit of the clinic was ordered by Health Minister Orazio Schillaci, but the criminal investigation was opened by the Florence Public Prosecutor’s Office.

Looks as though the house of cards is really beginning to fall down around their ears now.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007149#Comment_122007149

You have made your position regarding transgenderism abundantly clear so I won't be putting words into your mouth thank you.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007190#Comment_122007190

Too late, you did. And you are wrong.

Shoog

The Cass report says treatment centres for gender dysphoria need to be expanded and improved to reduce waiting lists. Lact of appropriate treatment is the largest source of harm to people seeking referrals.

At no point does it say that gender reassignment surgery is an inappropriate treatment.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007151#Comment_122007151

Looks as though the house of cards is really beginning to fall down around their ears now.

For the clinic which is now the subject of a criminal investigation, certainly. For everyone else, not so much. It’s very similar to the circumstances under which Helen Webberly and her husband, owners of GenderGP were sanctioned by the medical council in the UK for failing to adhere to standards of care:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-65136838.amp

It’s not as though the Cass Report will make a blind bit of difference to NHS policy given that they have already implemented policies before even the interim Cass Report had been published, and haven’t entertained WPATH guidelines for several years.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007218#Comment_122007218

Another straw man. No one here is blanket saying that "gender reassignment surgery is an inappropriate treatment".

It shouldn't be appropriate for kids, and in this the cass report does agree.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007538#Comment_122007538

No child is put forward for that treatment. So who is indulging in straw man arguments here ?