Prime Time Gender Issues (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512238#Comment_121512238

How are the questions not legitimate?

https://www.ksa-uk.net/for-teens/gender/

I have seen one or two documentaries, a long time ago, about Klinefelter’s Syndrome, caused by an extra X chromosome. In some cases leads to physical and/or mental issues. Some men with Klinefelters may either be transgender or homosexual. There is a very clear-cut identifiable chromosomal reason in these particular individuals.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512280#Comment_121512280

For the reasons outlined in my post that you quoted.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512403#Comment_121512403

So the questions aren't legitimate because:

"It's always funny to see the sudden interest in women's sports from those who never gave a toss about funding or facilities or media coverage or any other aspect of women's sports, until it became an opportunity to have a kick at some vulnerable people.

Likewise the sudden interest in women's prison from those who never gave a toss about conditions in women's prisons, and the sudden interest in 'keeping women safe'. As Marie Cassidy pointed out recently, the man that women need to worry about is most likely the one they share the bed with - but let's keep hyping up this fictional bogeyman (bogeywoman perhaps) about trans people."

You are suggesting I have no interest in womens sport outside of trying to kick vulnerable people? The irony alone in that piece of logic in the context of the question is as high as it gets.

Your attitude towards genuine debate on this topic is astounding.

CatFromHue

To say people don't give a toss about women's sport is ridiculous. Some of our biggest sports stars are women!

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512422#Comment_121512422

If you were involved in womens sports, you'd have a good idea about what's happening in your own sports, and what measures are being taken to manage trans participation, instead of coming up with pretend intractable questions that seemingly require inputs from the lads on Boards to be addressed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512439#Comment_121512439

JFC, can you see the context. I said that the people asking these questions about womens sports didn't give a toss about womens sports, just like the people asking the questions about womens prisons didn't give a toss about womens prisons. It's a manufactured, imported argument.

CatFromHue

It's really not manufactured or imported as these issues in women's sport or prison's didn't exist until this topic.

If you think it has been manufactured who manufactured it? The media barely cover this topic.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512464#Comment_121512464

I didn't ask what was happening in women's sports to manage trans participation or indeed ask specifically about any one sport.

They are very real and legitimate questions.

And again, the irony of you stating I am trying to kick vulnerable people when we all know who the vulnerable people are in contact sports or indeed physical interactions between biological men and biological women.

Your logic here is essentially saying that because I am not trans I should have no interest in this topic. An absolutely ridiculous standpoint to take.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512539#Comment_121512539

Your logic here is essentially saying that because I am not trans I should have no interest in this topic.

I didn't say anything within an asses roar of this. I'm not trans yet I have a strong interest in this topic, because I've seen first hand the damage done to extremely vulnerable people by people with the kinds of attitudes seen on these Threads.

This is yet another fictional invention, one of many here.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512464#Comment_121512464

So there are no female sports persons who are concerned about trans women in their sports?

Thats such a nothing argument.

So I can't be concerned for anyone or anything unless I have direct, personal experience of the issue?

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512109#Comment_121512109

We'll see!

It doesn't allow for debate, it allows for pussy-footing around the basic, biological and scientific facts. But if anyone dares to actually point out that the emperor has no clothes on they will be moderated.

My second point is that its impossible to say "I don't feel like a man, I feel more like a woman" if you don't define what either of those things are. Also, how on earth can anyone say they "feel like a man/woman"?

I'm a man and I couldn't tell you what it feels like to be a man as I have nothing to compare it to. I certainly couldn't tell you what it feels like to be a woman. Maybe how some women feel about being a woman is exactly how I feel about being a man? Does that make either of us trans?

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512280#Comment_121512280

It seems that if he doesn't like them they are illegitimate.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512566#Comment_121512566

I'm not involved in women's sports yet I have a strong interest in this topic because I have seen the damage done to women by biological men.

Same for women's spaces.....

Birneybau

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512238#Comment_121512238

Can you answer this? I'm going to presume your gender as male going by the name.

Why do you think you or any man has any right to push for the blurring of boundaries in female safe spaces/refuges/sports etc?

We men should be shifting over and be ok sharing spaces with trans-women. It's not our right to ask women to make space. It's Male supremacy.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512627#Comment_121512627

Became mansplaining.

I don't think anyone other than biological women should have a say in who can access wome- only spaces. It's a bit like abortion - not really a man's business. Or a transwoman's, for that matter.

Rubberchikken

I will go out on a limb here and say that just allowing someone to head off for gender surgery just because they've decided to want to be the opposite gender is.so far past stupid it beggers belief.

First off..two genders - male and female. No inbetween. No one day I'm this and the next day I'm that.. nonsense.

If someone is truly unhappy with their gender then they need proper assessment from a fully licenced professional who is without an agenda.

Then they need to be over 18.

Then an as adult if they decide at some time in the future that the gender they have changed to is not for them then they have to realise that the decision they made was theirs and welcome to the real world.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121500277#Comment_121500277

It's incredibly hard to get diagnosed with autism in Ireland. 20 years ago they were only just rolling out programs for kids to get diagnosed. I'm an adult and I only got diagnosed at 48 years old by going private. I tried for a few months to figure out how to get a diagnosis without going private and I couldn't figure it out. It's nearly impossible for an adult to get a diagnosis without going private. Even with kids now there's a huge backlog.

The reason there's more people with a neurodivergent diagnosis now who are trans is because there's more people with a diagnosis now.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512615#Comment_121512615

Bollíx, some of the most passionate drivers of women's sport are "biological men".

Go to any GAA ground or football ground and see who it is taking the coaching and training.

You just sound like you have an illogical fear of everyone you don't know.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512909#Comment_121512909

Ah here, c'mon - I have a fear of biological men competing with biological women in sports where being a biological man gives you considerable physical strengths relative to being a biological woman. It's fairly simple. There's no point having men and women categories in 90 percent of sports were you to let that happen, never mind the very obvious health and wellbeing issues in play.

I have no issues with males being involved in female sports - that's a pretty standard thing to happen. As you say, some of the most passionate drivers of womens sports are men. But to put them competing against women??

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512732#Comment_121512732

but no-one gets reassignment surgery before they're 18. And even then it takes years of treatment before they get to that stage. Reassignment surgery is the very last resort.

The problem is that it's incredibly hard to get any treatment in Ireland. From the moment a person thinks they might be trans to the point where they get gender reassignment surgery is far too long. And it's excruciatingly hard to get from all the services.

I'm sure we both agree that there should be rigor in the services, but the services themselves shouldn't be hard to get and there shouldn't be years long waiting lists at each stage.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512918#Comment_121512918

You need to choose your words more carefully.

So you are afraid trans people are competing in sports? Although you have no interest in sports. 🤷‍♀️

What sports at professional or elite level are trans people cleaning up in?

Where is this fear coming from?

El Gato De Negocios

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512532#Comment_121512532

Its the usual smoke and mirrors from this section tbh, oh you didn't care about biological men competing against women or being in female only spaces until trans people started doing this, ergo you are transphobic. I've said it before in other threads, the entire notion is built on a house of cards and does not hold up to any form of logical scrutiny but anyone that dares to raise an eyebrow is a transphobe, a TERF or wants to see trans people no longer exist / deny their existence, its such bad faith arguments and they have to keep coming back to it because there is literally nothing else for them to cling on to.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512933#Comment_121512933

None of the above is my position. My position is clear.

"I have a fear of biological men competing with biological women in sports where being a biological man gives you considerable physical strengths relative to being a biological woman. It's fairly simple. There's no point having men and women categories in 90 percent of sports were you to let that happen, never mind the very obvious health and wellbeing issues in play.

I have no issues with males being involved in female sports - that's a pretty standard thing to happen. As you say, some of the most passionate drivers of womens sports are men. But to put them competing against women??"

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512962#Comment_121512962

Once more

What sports at professional or elite level are trans people cleaning up in?

Where is this fear coming from?

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513019#Comment_121513019

Once more, why do you think my issue is around professional or elite level sports or indeed why my issue is around trans people "cleaning up" in sports?

I find it surprising that you believe a fear for womens safety and womens rights is something to be questioned with all that is going on in this thread.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513085#Comment_121513085

What safety?

Is thread about to do it's usual peak about trans people jumping out of cubicles to rape you?

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513161#Comment_121513161

You can't see any safety implications for:

1. Biological men competing in contact sports against women?
2. Biological men being imprisioned with women?

You can't see any "fairness" and "societal" issues for biological men competing in womens sports in general?

Did you ever wonder why there are mens and womens categories in sport? Did you every wonder why certain environments are secregated on a women/men basis?

These are all totally acceptable - but when you end up in positions where people are confused about what a woman is and what a man is, those become serious concerns.

If you go back through the thread you'll see where my concerns are. I'd wager that there are biological women all over the developed world with concerns.

Enduro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512933#Comment_121512933

What sports at professional or elite level are trans people cleaning up in?

EVERYONE should be entitled to fair competition in sport, not just professionals and elites. It is entirely irrelevant at what level someone competes if their participation is unfair to other competitors. So in this particular case, no male sex athletes should be allowed to compete in the female sex category in any sport that has female sex categories, irrespective of the level they are competing at.

Fairness should not be an elitist concept or entitlement.

Birneybau

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513597#Comment_121513597

The arrogance. A shot!

"Four teams reportedly withdrew from matches against Rossington Main Ladies after a shot by Francesca Needham injured an opposition player.

Needham said she was considering pursuing "a case of discrimination".

The FA says it is working with Sheffield & Hallamshire County FA.

Needham's shot reportedly led to an opposition player suffering a season-ending knee injury."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/67482965

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512829#Comment_121512829

Surely the clinicians when examining the patient for gender identity issues would be able to spot the co-morbidity.

Anyway I'm finding this whole line very suspicious. What I know is that it was revealed at Tavistock that a very high percentage (was it 30%) of patients had psychological co-morbidities. Now I hear it's well understood that "LGBT People" have always show this higher rate of co-morbidities - so nothing to see here, that neatly explains that one.