Increase in Anti-EV Media Articles

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949684#Comment_121949684

I think you've misread my post so I'll make it more clear for you

• Brand new ford focus - from €32,541
• Brand new (similarly sized) MG4 Electric - from €25,995
• Second hand 2019 Ford Focus - €22,000
• Second hand 2021 MG ZS Electric (bigger car, newer car) - €21,850

In both of these examples the electric car is cheaper than the ford focus. Same dealer in all examples

Your example of 26k for a new Ford Focus back in 2019 is ~ the same price as what an MG4 currently goes for

If you wanted to buy an electric car it would currently be cheaper than a petrol focus

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912202#Comment_121912202

Where did she say she was exaggerating? Listen, in the last week there has been a push back from plenty of Journos like Rory Reid with real world facts. At least the balance has been restored again. I'm having a great conversation with a guy on YouTube at the moment who says his ICE can do 5 times the mileage of a Tesla. Most of his answers include five or six laughing emojis to really get his point across that I'm a clown.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949873#Comment_121949873

😂🤣😀😂😃

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949772#Comment_121949772

I think the MG brand would be considered a cheap Chinese car brand by your average Joe Soap and not really comparable to the Ford. Your comparison would also indicate that MG residuals could be shaky. A more comparable EV in terms of a mainstream brand to a Ford Focus would be a VW ID.3 or e-Golf. I’m sure there is nothing wrong with an MG but a lot of current Ford Focus owners won’t even have heard of them.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958238#Comment_121958238

I really don't think Fords and VWs are a fair comparison. VWs have always been significantly more expensive than any Ford.

Find a better comparison or your point is invalid.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958259#Comment_121958259

Really.., What would you suggest as a direct competitor for a Ford Focus ?

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958351#Comment_121958351

You'd compare with the the brands that sold around the same volumes as Ford. That would be Skoda, Kia and Nissan.

For model comparison it would be Nissan Qashqai, Skoda Octavia and Toyota Corolla.

But since these are all ICE vehicles, you should probably look at the best selling electric cars, Best sellers were in descending order: VW ID4, Tesla MY, Skoda Enyaq, Hyundai Ioniq 5 and MG4.

So you could compare the 5th best selling ICE with the 5th best selling BEV. That would be the Ford Focus and the MG4.

MarkN

A Golf 😉

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958238#Comment_121958238

Ford were always considered the budget American brand though, so comparing a budget American brand to a budget Chinese brand is probably a fair comparison

Especially considering it's the same dealership involved

Shoog

Fords have their fan base (mainly for their cheap parts) but they have very poor reputation at resale. My attitude, which is quite common, is anything but a second hand ford. Medioca thirsty engines and bodywork prone to rust are common perceptions of fords.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949772#Comment_121949772

You're not comparing like for like,

petrol car can go much further, can fill up anywhere and in a fraction of the time compared to ev, i'm not anti ev i've been driving ev since 2015 but can't stand some of the ev is perfect attitude, it isn't and nowhere as convenient as petrol or diesel.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960179#Comment_121960179

petrol car can go much further

Depends on the petrol car, most of them nowadays are going the way of reducing the capacity of the fuel tank for greater efficiency while most EVs are coming with 60kWh batteries as standard

can fill up anywhere

I can't fill a petrol car up on my driveway while I sleep, whereas my EV needs a 3 pin socket to fill up

and in a fraction of the time

True, for a multiple of the cost though!

Most of the cars I've linked above can charge at 100kW which would give them 100km range in about 15 minutes. Back in the day I could easily spend 15 minutes waiting in the queue just to pay at the till, never mind the time spent queuing for an open bay, the time it takes to lift the nozzle, fill and replace. I'm certainly glad those days are behind me

Now I'm not anti petrol or diesel, I used to own one but can't stand some of the ICE is perfect attitude, it isn't and nowhere as convenient as driving electric in most circumstances

MightyMunster

Absolutely, saving hours of charging time per year with an EV and home charging vs ice

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960396#Comment_121960396

I can fill up in a petrol station doesn't bother me, not too bothered by it. I do charge up at home though but getting petrol/ diesel isn't an inconvenience when I'll be passing multiple petrol stations daily.

What is a right pain in the hole is when going out to the car in the morning to discover it hasn't charged due to some glitch in the charge point or the car timer, that's happened me more than a few times with different charge points and cars. I'm driving EV since 2015 so I think I can say that they have their use but they are not a 100% good enough replacement for liquid fuelled cars by any stretch of the imagination.

100 Kw, don't make me laugh, most of the cars out there can't charge at that rate for any length of time and when the battery is cold forget it.

There's not a lot of 100 kw chargers away from the East away from motorways and you're left with a 50 Kw network mostly and only 1 in many places, no one can argue that EV is still a 100% viable alternative to a liquid fuelled car, if you're prepared to put up with it and all that shyte that goes along with looking for chargers, planning, signing up for this access card and that app, hoping, praying the charger isn't down or hoping there's no queues.

Many EV owners like myself have a ICE car at home, many people can't charge at home and are certainly not prepared to pay big price to sit at a fast charger for all their charging, it's madness and they won't do it.

A 60 Kwh EV is not good enough, you'd need roughly 160 Kwh of storage to be equivalent to ICE and much faster charging that we currently got.

Along with promoting Electric cars the Government would be better off promoting 2 wheel 1 person transport like motorbikes/scooters, they are far more economical than ICE and take up much less space than ICE or EV. cars in general have got much larger and people are choosing these cars to clog up our towns and cities.

We need a radical change of attitude in general as to how we get around but big cars to take 1 person in towns and cities should be discouraged, I'm not saying we can reduce all cars, it's not possible but we can free up a lot of the streets if we moved to 2 wheels, I did this recently and surprised how much fun it is and how quick I can get around compared to sitting in traffic.

Bus lanes are empty a lot of the time, scooters and motorbikes should be allowed use them cyclists in bus lanes is just a mad idea.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960672#Comment_121960672

I can fill up in a petrol station doesn't bother me, not too bothered by it

I suspect it bothers a lot of people but each to their own. I like just plugging in and not having to bother going to the cashier. It's also handy that most sites are 24/7. I used to have to travel backroads in Munster early in the morning for work and if I left home without a full tank it would be squeaky bum time to find an open filling station on my route, really bad range anxiety

What is a right pain in the hole is when pulling in to the petrol station to discover it hasn't opened yet or there's a glitch in the nozzle due to some glitch in the internal workings of the pump, that's happened me more than a few times with different filling stations and cars. I drove ICE cars since 2005 so I think I can say that they have their use but they are not a 100% good enough replacement for battery fuelled cars by any stretch of the imagination.

There's not a lot of early morning filling stations away from the East away from motorways and you're left with a network of 9-5 mostly and only 1 in many places, no one can argue that ICE is still a 100% viable alternative to an electrically fuelled car, if you're prepared to put up with it and all that shyte that goes along with the range anxiety associated with not being able to refuel when you need it and for double or sometimes triple the price

Many EV owners like myself were once ICE drivers and now prefer the added reliability and less maintenance and EV requires, the joy of a full battery in the early morning. Most people can charge at home, those that can't should be supported if course, and most of us are certainly prepared to pay a slightly higher price to sit at a fast charger for a minority of our charging

A 60 Kwh EV is not good enough, you'd need roughly 160 Kwh of storage to be equivalent to ICE and much faster charging that we currently got

A 60kWh EV gets you 400km range on a bad day, 160kWh or about 1,000km on a bad day is probably overkill for most human beings who have bladders that need emptying from time to time, maybe not you, but for most people 400km is loads

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960754#Comment_121960754

Some cars can achieve this with 60 Kwh driving slow but 400 Kms is not realistic for most electrics out there with 60 Kwh, maybe tesla can do it, maybe not.

You are insane if you think a 400 Km car is viable alternative to a car that can drive 600-900 Kms on a tank of fuel that can be refilled in 3 or 4 mins.

I drive EV since 2015 and I can tell people for real that we take the diesel on many long trips where the charging infrastructure is poor and we don't want to wait up to 50 mins for a charge or risk broken chargers.

There are many petrol stations that are not 24x7 because most people don't need to fill up their tanks half as regularly as EV owners so they don't need to be 24x7…….

Oonagh123

I put down a deposit for a BYD Seal on Friday, however, after watching this review on YouTube I’m starting to panic about my decision

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZLmj2htnkM

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960754#Comment_121960754

Itll be a cold day in hell but a very warm day on earth for a 60kwh EV to do 400 Kms and even at that a huge amount has to go right to get that range. I think I might have achieved it once, but not sure.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961072#Comment_121961072

Your claim is absolute manure.... I do 80km round trip to work and have to charge my 60kWh battery once a week, almost empty on a Friday in January I'll admit, but what's 5X80 again?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961018#Comment_121961018

Incorrect, 400 Kms is completely realistic for most electrics out there with a 60 kWh battery

You are insane if you think a 400 Km car isn't a viable alternative to a car that can drive 600-900 Kms on a tank of fuel that can be refilled in 3 or 4 mins. Who has the bladder to drive for that amount of time without stopping anyway?

I drive EV since 2020 and I can tell people for real that we will never go back to diesel purely because there's no point at this stage. The charging infrastructure is very strong these days even in the most remote areas of the country. You should know this driving EV since 2015

Dr Turk Turkelton

Are people really arguing with @Mad_Lad about ev's when he was one of the original ev og's back in the day?

Place is nuts😂

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960483#Comment_121960483

Until you need to charge away from home then it's not so convenient, especially when you move away from the East or motorways.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961911#Comment_121961911

The charging infrastructure in remote areas is utter bollocks, some 50 Kw DC chargers thrown in here and there needing up to 50 mins for a charge that's ludicrous talk to think this is a viable alternative for the majority of people vs petrol or diesel, if we had no diesel car at home as a 2nd car there's no way we would put up with the inconvenience and planning and hoping the charger is not in use or broken by the time we get there, you're absolutely mental !

You choose to buy EV and put up with it or only go where you know the infrastructure is good , I don't want such limitations neither does my Partner who is in no way shape or form into all that shyte also and I'm an ev driver since 2015 and tired of all the bollocks around slow charging cars and crappy infrastructure and then if the battery is cold I have to way up to 20 mins longer ? ffs cop on, Electrics are fine when it suits your commute and familiar routes but stop trying to say electric cars are proper direct replacements for liquid fuelled cars because they certainly are not, they are fine for people who choose to put up with their limitations but the rest of the population who are not into all that BS shouldn't be forced into electrics if they choose not to because they are not as good as liquid fuelled cars.

I don't even try promote electric to anyone because if it suits them and their budget they will buy them but a significant amount of people I talk to have no interest in changing to EV because they don't want to simple as.

Mad_Lad

haha, well look, I'm driving EV since 2015 and while range has certainly improved the cost has gone up a huge amount to match, recharge times are still poor taking 30-50 mins, cold batteries take longer to charge, infrastructure has improved but still poor in most areas of the Island off the motorways, you still need an app for this provider and an access card for that one and a fob for the other, some take bank card but they all should take bank card so you don't have to care about all that messing about and 50 kw chargers are not viable alternatives to petrol and diesel pumps when you can fill your EV in 5 mins to 80% then I will say, fair enough. Most cars can't even charge at 100 Kw for more than a few mins……….

The greens and many people here seem to think 40+ K cars are within the reaches of many people in Ireland, the realities are very different, while we might be privileged to have the extra cash flow there are many people who couldn't even get a credit union loan for 20k.

Where are the cheap electric cars ? they don't exist why ? because it's not possible with current tech and when lithium and cobalt come from foreign countries we have no control over the cost. More and more tech is being added to cars making them more expensive, why not make basic cars that are cheap and affordable without all this tech nobody actually needs to get from A to B ?

A 20 K EV with current tech wouldn't get you more than 100 Kms, where's the 15K ICE cars ? Renault and Toyota used to have cheap 1.0l - 2.0 L cars and they're gone now for much more expensive hybrids to achieve no better fuel economy but add greatly to the cost. Sure they might be faster and automatic but what does that matter to people who just want a cheap basic car that gets from A to B ?

a lot of people here are mental , everyone should drive ev and pay a fortune for limited cars ? Politicians included, increasing taxes on cars most people can't afford and especially on the fuel, they are living in a different reality than the majority of people and what's going to happen is people will drive much older cars for longer, that's probably not so bad in the long run either, getting into debt and paying interest on cars that depreciate heavily is not really a great way to spend money !

I like EV driving but if we didn't have the diesel there's no way I would have the EV.

prawnsambo

As always, you make sweeping generalisations without any backup.

Cold batteries: A lot of cars have preconditioning built in, so this is becoming a thing of the past.

Charging to 80%: From what level? Cars with 300km+ range are pretty much the norm, so you don't need to charge to 80% to get you the rest of the way to your destination where you can charge overnight. Or at worst, an hour while you're having lunch/dinner.

Too expensive: Quite a range of <€30k cars available this year. Most with >300km range. And if that's still too much, plenty available second hand from a year old+. If it's good enough for ICE to buy SH, then it's good enough for a BEV. Also the tech makes them cheaper to produce, not more expensive. Screens are cheap, CAN BUS is cheaper than old style wiring looms and switchgear, never mind much lighter. And all that 'tech' is being added to ICE vehicles too. Why if it costs more?

A 20k EV with current tech wouldn't get you more than 100kms: Let me introduce you to the Dacia Spring with a range of 305km and a price tag of ~€20k (currently selling in some European countries for €12k)

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961911#Comment_121961911

It's only realistic is a specific set of circumstances though, which you neglected to mention. The 400kms is almost all under 80kmh. I drive a mix of R, N and M roads and have never got 400kms on a full battery and I have a 77kwh ID4 (though the 100-0 available battery is actually only 69kwh with an accessible buffer of 3.5kwh).

To say an ice or EV is more convenient is a matter of perspective and is completely dependent on the availability of home charging for the latter. For my own situation, it is, but that isn't true of everyone. Is it more convenient to plug in nightly than go to the pumps once a week is ultimately down to the individuals preference. Does the convenience of home charging for the vast majority of kms make up for the expense and inconvenience of public charging for distance driving is also down to the driver.

I think though that the issues around public charging are somewhat overstated. Most journeys of distance have multiple charging options. Of the 20k kms we've done we've had three issues public charging: one long wait (really should have driven on to next, but car was new to me), one broken charger, and one where the charger was full so I did drive on. There are plenty of public plugs around but it only works for us because we have put chargers in with family - which are our common long distance destinations. I did miss the range of a diesel when we ended up at a destination that didn't have destination charging - having to go back out to find a public plug is a nuisance.

The contention that an EV isn't a viable alternative for a long distance diesel though clearly isn't true though. We changed our 1200km diesel for a 300-400km EV as our sole family vehicle and it hasn't caused us practical issues - or the ones that did, have been worked out. The only real issue is the high levels of depreciation. Losing 5k in six months on a used EV, and where we had pushed the seller very hard has been tough to stomach.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121962192#Comment_121962192

It's only realistic is a specific set of circumstances though

Apologies yes, since you asked my work commute is about 20km motorway that I do at 120km/h and 20km national road that I usually take at 80-100km/h. You're correct it's very subjective but the ID4 is probably one of the least efficient EVs money can buy to be fair

To say an ice or EV is more convenient is a matter of perspective

Of course, and likewise there's a growing number of people whom EVs are more convenient than ICE. Even the home charging requirement is largely gone now with most work places having on site charging for staff and I've nearly never seen a Lidl car park being busy for charging

The issues of depreciation are known ones but only really affects people who buy new and upgrade more often than they should. It's only a matter of time before that changes

Buddy Bubs

I did 280kms today, started out at 91% pulled into ionity kill north on 4%, charged back to 30% in the time it took me to go into the shop for milk and pay. Took in 15kwh in under 10 mins and I'll charge fully in work tomorrow. Range was up to 100kms at that stage.

Speeds were up around 100kwh

Expensive though, that's over a tenner for 100kms of range, equivalent of an ICE at least, there you go SEAI, get the price of electricity on public network down.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963207#Comment_121963207

Sounds like a perfect use case for Freshmile. 0.30c per kWh = 4.50, 0.30c per minute = 3.00. Total €7.50

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963207#Comment_121963207

My local has gone up to €1.82 for a liter of fuel, you'd need a very efficient car to get 100km for a tenner at that rate