Increase in Anti-EV Media Articles

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968440#Comment_121968440

Don't the new software versions of ID.* have it too?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969698#Comment_121969698

It'll be another couple of years before the second hand market starts to get a decent amount of the many new EV models that have launched in the last 4 years, and people who can't afford to buy new are able to purchase one.

I think there's also an element of our govt not wanting the takeup of EVs to happen too fast with the idea that gradual takeup would be better for the national electricity grid. Maybe a bit conspiracy theory but was 2023 the correct time to reduce the grants to the public?

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968799#Comment_121968799

There's something not adding up here so. If you drove the return journey at 100kmh, based on the time on the dash you averaged just 12.6kmh for the remaining 48kms of urban driving which took almost 4 hours! Traffic is bad in Belfast, but not that bad.

To get that kind of range out of that car in the current weather and ambient temperatures requires a very light foot. That's the context. I'd wonder if you drove any of it at 120kmh at all? My guess is you took R roads and joined the motorway north of Drogheda and then took it very easy, instead of the better road M4-M50-M1. This is exactly what I was talking about, choosing the byway instead of the highway for range. ABRP says you need 57% for your one way journey BTW.

It's extremely important to be honest about these things because what has happened is people have heard these no context stories by lads hypermiling and believe that they too can drive 440km without stopping. They buy and then set out on their road trip from Dublin to Killarney only to find that no, the car can't do that journey without stopping. The disappointment and the angry stories about the cars "not worth a shite" follow. And that gets traction.

A normal driver in the MG LR will do that journey from Enfield to Belfast return but they'll need to go cross country to join the M1 north of drogheda stop at the M1 services north of castlebellingham to add 20% on the way home.

eagerv

I remember my previous ID.3 sometimes gave very inaccurate low average speeds on trips, it used to assume the car was driving even when stopped eating that juicy MaccyD, providing the car was powered up.

Gerrymandering reborn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969698#Comment_121969698

I checked donedeal and there are over 500 Evs for sale under 20k from year 18 upwards - so I wouldn't call that a trickle/small number of models to be fair.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars?fuelType=Electric&year_from=2018&year_to=2023&price_to=20000

Buddy Bubs

Just to nail my colours to the mast, I'm EV driver bit thats a very important point by @MrMusician18 above not to overstate range.

I could get 400kms out of my EV before absolutely having to plug in again if I really really really try but I cant go somewhere 200kms away on a motorway and return without charging either of them. They will be out if zip 100kms before I get home at least. Not that charging is difficult, its actually pretty easy to do a small top up.

Thats a 58kwh Cupra Born which I would do well to get under 20kwh per 100kms on a motorway and an extremely inefficient 95kwh etron which won't see under 30kwh per 100kms

Gerrymandering reborn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969541#Comment_121969541

1. Charging is such a huge problem -

(a) Most people charge their EV's at home because they CAN charge them at home. There are still many people in Ireland who do not have the option of charging at home.

(b) All the huge saving in the fuel cost that are often advertised are based on home charging prices. It is my knowledge that public charging is multiples more expensive than home (I could be wrong)

(c ) No matter the technology improvements, the time charging takes is far too long. Unless it matches the time it takes to fill with Diesel, this will be a hindrance for people (especially for the many without home charging). It takes 20-30mins for get 400km of range vs 2-3 minutes to get 1000km range (diesel)

(d) If the goverment is serious about EV adoption, they should offer a free charger for households whether they purchase a new or second hand EV. Also what happens when the charger needs replacing after years of use (as all chargers do). This isn't a phone charger that can be bought for €20. These are concerns for people who are not the affluent early adopters who can afford to change their car every 3 years

(e ) Put the costs aside for a minute, how many chargers do we need to satisfy public demand to charging? Would it not be a complete waste of resources to install 10,000s of public EV chargers knowing that they will be a peak time where this amount is in demand, the rest of the time there is little use. A petrol pump with 8 pumps would probably get through about 500 cars a day. How many cars for would charging a charging station of 30 chargers get through the day?

(f) People tend to forget that we are human and we forget things, What happens if you forget to charge your car and a emergency arises/you need to go to work? I would argue people value their phones way more than their car and they forget to charge them. This problem is solved with a powerbank. What is the solution for an EV?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970396#Comment_121970396

To answer and I have a simple mind, charging is not a problem by the way

(a) A huge number of people can charge from home, a lot less than currently drive EV

(b) Public charging is more expensive but I refer back to (a) when you shouldn't need public system, especially with the new long range cars. 99% of time people should never need to use public system

( c) I have yet to see any diesel give a range of 1000km, anyway I refer to point (b) when you shouldn't need to use public charging the odd time and the overall saving should make it worthwhile, we have to remember people spent thousands swapping diesel for diesel to save a few hundred quid for years now

(d) the grant for chargers have been available for years, before that a free charger was available and didn't increase the uptake

(e) In reality we could swap thousands of cars now and not need to increase the charger numbers because most people do short journeys all week and never touch the range of an electric car, then have a full tank each morning

I know this is not what you want to hear and it's a very simplified view. I have a cousin who drives a toyota for the simple reason once a year they might(not every year) drive to Mayo. Apart from that they have a house with driveway, the ability to add a charger, drive about 40-50km per day max but won't change because of that one trip which they don't do yearly.

Yet I have family who live in what most peopel would describe as back of beyond and are full electric. Love it and will never change back. Figure that one out

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970396#Comment_121970396

I think the latter will be solved eventually by domestic rapid charging via home storage systems, vehicle to vehicle high power transfer leads or possibly even a "jerrycan" pack that plugs into a socket in the boot.

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970396#Comment_121970396

a) Yes, the best part of the EV ownership and negates the e)

b) It's all about the frequency of public vs. home charging.

c) After 300/400 km I'm usually quite ready to have a 20 minute (and then some more) break. Remember this only happens on long journeys when you have set sail with full battery due to a)

d) You're too late. I got a free charger back in 2015 from the "government".

e) We have two EVs. As they never need to be charged outside home regularly the public charging points get used very seldomly. But I do admit that it can be a real pain and an capacity issue at peak times when the topups take 30 minutes per customer instead of 5 minutes. The only way to address that is invest in excess capacity. Luckily chargers are not that expensive per unit once the cabling infrastructure is there to support them.

f) Didn't happen to my family yet but we have only driven EV for 9 years/250k so far. If you really need to go and forgot to charge you do need to use some localish charger before the trip. Eventually a need is bound to happen. At least the chargers are 24/7 accessible unlike most of the petrol stations.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970275#Comment_121970275

There are 2018 cars (6 years old) in that link for less than 10k, fairly sure you don't get that kind of value with ICE cars anymore

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970234#Comment_121970234

Nope, it was M4-M50-M1.

M4 and M50 at morning and evening peak times, so pretty slow for those parts. Traffic was crawling coming into Belfast. Not sure if it's always like that, was quicker on the way out.

It was around Autumn last year, so weather a little bit better than at the moment.

TBF, that was an extreme example as I just happened to have taken a photo at the time. I regularly achieve over 400km per full charge though, which includes M4/M50 twice a week.

josip

Our last 2 diesels could do 1000 and 1200km. But it would take at least 5 mins, sometimes as long as 10, to fill the tank from empty and pay, not 2 to 3.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970720#Comment_121970720

How long to hypothetically charge an EV to 1000km? Possibly with an ionity charger under an hour, but theres only 5 locations in the country.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970803#Comment_121970803

Assuming you have a big enough battery, and at a consumption rate of 15kWh/100km that would be a 150kWh battery (not in existence yet afaik) it would take three hours on a 50kW charger and one hour on a 150kW one (of which there are a good few around the country).

On a home 7.2kW charger it would take three days if you just charge at night rate. 🤣

This is all assuming you're charging from 0% to 100%, which is never done. In practice in this country, you'd be hard pressed to run up 1000km without stopping anywhere or going home for the night.

josip

I got 255 kW very briefly once.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963818#Comment_121963818

EGolf, EUp are 32kw ish and 40kw isk charging for about €20k and 150+ range. Close enough no. EMini and i3 similar.

Open to correction.

.

MightyMunster

2 mins to fill a diesel tank 🤣

I put over 300,000 km on a diesel and never once drove to a garage, filled up, paid and returned to my route in 3 mins. Ever 🤣

Hotblack Desiato

Latest instalment…

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/04/02/electric-vehicles-why-are-sales-falling/

Ironically it complains about misinformation…

The AA survey found 53 per cent of respondents believed EV batteries last -less than 100,000 kilometres. That equates to six years’ motoring for the average Irish driver. Understandably, buyers are concerned that the new EV they might buy for €40,000 or more – the biggest cost of new EVs being the battery packs – will only have a working life of six years before they face a massive battery replacement bill.

However, more modern battery packs are made up of modules and in many cases you would replace the module and not the entire packs.

Why doesn't he address the fact that this belief is BS in the first place?

mfceiling

Rsymons did a video recently on YouTube.

Model 3 performance. I think it was a 2020. Lots of fast DC charging in it's lifetime. Had 100 thousand miles on it.

Tested the battery for losses. It has lost 8% from new. 8%.

josip

I think the Nissan Leaf has had an overall net negative impact on mass EV adoption.

Many peoples’ concerns stem from Leaf owners’ experiences with poor BMS/short range/low top speed/lack of (Chademo) chargers that are not (as) relevant to most other modern models.

OEP

I saw someone on reddit with 300,000 miles on a model 3 - can't remember the exact number but over 80% of battery left.

Red Silurian

Interesting the hard shoulder now sponsored by electric car company, MG

I wonder how they feel about that famous interview with the ashford motors headcase

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121975056#Comment_121975056

Watch Cuddihy change his tune

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121975107#Comment_121975107

He might be worth listening to now, hear his struggle to get the words out haha!

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121974340#Comment_121974340

That's like comparing a model T to a Honda Civic.

Hotblack Desiato

You wouldn't think much of a motoring correspondent if they told you not to buy a new ICE car because a certain model from 12 years ago had a problem.

Patser

Interesting article using Ireland as a prime example of how misinformation and a subsequent misunderstanding/underestimation of EVs is leading to a drop in sales, counterpointed by how Norway being so far ahead of curve is expecting EVs to overtake ICE this year

https://fortune.com/europe/2024/04/03/as-norway-nears-major-victory-over-gas-powered-cars-ireland-joins-ev-winter-with-drivers-falling-prey-to-misinformation/

Edit: Just realised this is a lot of rehash of @Hotblack Desiato post from the 4th

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121975343#Comment_121975343

When did you last see a Model T on the road or on DD

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978572#Comment_121978572

You know when I said "like" it didn't occur to me someone would not understand "like" and instead take it literally.

1st generation Leaf is world first series production car. It's a paradigm shift. Lessons were learnt and EVs that followed have gone a different way on many of the features and battery tech.