Deposit return scheme (recycling)

vafankillar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122144840#Comment_122144840

people keep saying things like this, but there's absolutely no way most shops are gonna give you a tenner without the print out.

"oh well they're obliged to" nobody from re-turn or the green party is gonna be on your back about the till being down 10 euro but you're boss god dam will

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145955#Comment_122145955

They can log into the machine and see all the transaction history. So if a machine shuts down when it owes you money the shop can check the logs before giving your money back. I've seen it done in Lidl.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145699#Comment_122145699

Conor Pope might be interested.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145955#Comment_122145955

Your boss should have an agreed procedure in place for when the machine goes down in the middle of a transaction.

Once the procedure is followed the till won't be down and nobody is at a loss.

If a customer is due a cash refund they must receive it or else their pocket will be down.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146089#Comment_122146089

You keep saying things that are factually incorrect.

Like this:

The machines keep a log so they can see what you put in the machine and exactly how much you are owed.

The log is written to file when the transaction completes. (E.g. it prints the voucher).

If the software crashes before the transaction is completed, because it is only written to memory the record is lost.

No-one in the mainstream supermarkets has been trained to log into the machines. They just know how to turn it off and on again.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146551#Comment_122146551

Well how else can you explain a machine in Lild with a staff member going through a log of transactions? Maybe they didn't know what they were doing but that was what I could see.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146563#Comment_122146563

Because the staff member is not logging into the machine, they are viewing the completed* transactions in a central repository.

At the end of a transaction the machine pushes its data to a central repo which is part of the shops stock control. Otherwise, 1 shop, 3 machines, the logistics of managing access credentials for 3 different machines and 5 different staff members would be a nightmare.

*Completed transaction. If you put 100 cans into a machine, and it crashes, the record does not get written to the log.

So no amount of moaning and crying to Lidl or anyone else is going to get you your 15 euro, because it won't be recorded.

Archeron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145150#Comment_122145150

Ah sure what's at least 750k per day between friends.

Obviously successful returns issued value to be removed from that, but thats the minimum being yoinked out of our pockets. Every day.

vafankillar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146089#Comment_122146089

different shops have different machines. our machine has no option for this.

vafankillar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146472#Comment_122146472

what procedure do you suggest?

what i know is our store policy is there always must be documentation for anything involving money from the till & there's no chance i'll be going outside that.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146667#Comment_122146667

Plus whats been added to the base price of products recently to cover up front costs and the running of Re-Turn. Had to laugh at the price of coke etc while shopping today. Thought Id got lost and wandered into M&S.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146870#Comment_122146870

The store policy you are operating is pretty much standard.

It makes sense to have strict controls on cash disbursements.

With all due respect it's not your responsibility to decide policy, only to put it into action.

Your boss on the other hand is responsible for a machine that is taking items from his customers in exchange for a cash equivalent.

If a customer is €5 or €10 out of pocket because your boss's machine malfunctioned he has a problem.

He needs to come up with something better than "hard luck try again".

Whether that is a goodwill payment or delving into the machine record is up to him.

elperello

Changes on the way including machines taking up to 100 items at Civic Amenity Sites.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/machines-can-accept-100-cans-32823413

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147184#Comment_122147184

No they aren't, it's under "consideration".

Re-turn don't even have an accurate list of where these machines are, the idea they would be able to provide live information on which ones were broken is beyond hilarious.

Machines that can take a 100 cans? They can't even get a machine to take 1 can without it shíttíng itself.

Another change to the scheme that is being considered is the feasibility of refunding deposits to customers’ phones instead of issuing credit notes or cash. This would be particularly useful at civic amenity sites, which do not handle small quantities of cash, the minister said.

Yes the large retailers will agree to that all right.

😂

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147946#Comment_122147946

Thanks for bringing me back down to earth with a bang B.

I've been cursed with optimism all my life 🙂

tohaltuwi

Regarding systems that crash before a transaction is completed, I have tons of work experience of how at least some equivalent type systems operate, specifically Libraries operating systems which deal in tons of quite complex transactions across lots of service points, each of which can have a number of machines and devices reading and writing to storage.

The system can “go down” along any of a string of points. Each machine/device reads to a system of computers shared by the all the public library service. If the system goes down at any point beyond the device where a transaction is happening it gets recorded onto local hard drive and when the point where the system broke down becomes functional again the data is read into the main system from local devices hard drives. There’s always a log available of any transaction that has taken place. Part of my job involved troubleshooting the system which involved combinations of Unix/SunSystems, Galaxy, Windows, Sierra, & more, and it was extremely rare in latter times for any transactions to fail to be logged.

it is perfectly feasible for the ReTurn system to have the same capabilities, though I dare say the electricity needed kind of defeats any alleged Green credentials the operation is supposed to have.

Admittedly, ReTurn is not the core business of shops, they have been obliged to adopt it to varying extents, OT is the core business of Libraries.

patnor1011

I tried it with completely damaged nearly flattened can and it went in no problem. Bar code needs to be visible.

One thing though why do machines print shop logos on vouchers? I just think they should be accepted everywhere like if I brought cans and bottles to dunnes and forgot to use voucher why cant I use it in lidl next day?

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149008#Comment_122149008

So could / should RVMs automatically print a voucher for whats been returned up to the point of going down?

reubenreuben

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149188#Comment_122149188

Even a voucher from the same store name won't work in a different located store. Happened to me with Supervalu.

Backwards system.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147946#Comment_122147946

"Consider it considered!"

Job done. Pints lads? 🤣

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149188#Comment_122149188

I suspect it's to allow RVMs to be able to operate without a constant internet connection. A data centre could, in theory, go down but the machine can still work. Also important for machines in rural shops which might have flakey internet

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149669#Comment_122149669

I don't understand, if the voucher refund is based on a barcode what has internet connectivity got to do with shops accepting voucher from other shops?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149763#Comment_122149763

The barcode gets printed by the machine but redeemed at the till so there needs to be some form of data communication between the machine and the till so that the till knows how much to give. Under the current system an internal link is all that is needed between the RVM and the till but if it was to be redeemable in every store you'd need a constant internet connection so the RVMs can update every till in the scheme

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149790#Comment_122149790

So every barcode that's generated by the RVM is sent to the tills in that particular shop via hardwire straight away so the voucher can be used there? Are you certain about this?

zell12

CEO Ciarán Foley coming up on Newstalk before 5pm. He wants your marvellous compliments on the DRS

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149763#Comment_122149763

One of the sops to retailers in this scheme was that the voucher could only be used in their store so they’d make more money. Nothing to do with the environment or the customer.

zell12

Now on NT: Unclaimed refunds go towards 'running the DRS scheme'

jj880

Bulk return RVMs should be added (not just considered) beside local bottle banks and refund to IBAN. This would also encourage people to recycle more glass and food tins. Big opportunity missed (so far) through gombeenery. The money is there. Must be well into the 10s of millions unclaimed deposits by now.

Home deliveries exempt also. Still let the containers reclaim a deposit if so desired. Why not? Wouldn't this encourage less 1 car journeys to shops? The environment and customer closely followed by shop staff are last for consideration in this scheme. Its comical.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150125#Comment_122150125

This joker keeps saying people aren't claiming deposits because they "dont want to" 🤣

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150296#Comment_122150296

You can't trust a word that comes out of that lying weasels* mouth. Total spoofer, treating the public with contempt, and that is reflected in the shambles of a scheme rollout we have here.

*Comparison unfair to weasels