Deposit return scheme (recycling)

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037292#Comment_122037292

First it was "the same scheme works in other countries". Back comes the research for several similar schemes in different countries. None as far over the line and stacked against the consumer as Re-Turn. Completely debunked.

It's actually very similar to the German scheme, which works very well. The main difference is the german machines have a 99.9% up-time. Most shops have multiple RVMs so even in the event of a failure of one there would be backups. The German RVMs will also take any product, even ones without the pfand logo. On reflection the German system could be considered quite different and far superior

Then it was "the EU made us create Re-Turn". Once again bollox. Our gombeens came up with it and surprise surprise higher deposits are now being floated in the media.

The EU said we (and all other member states) need to increase recycling rates on drink containers. Re-Turn was born out of that

So now its "its not going away". Super stuff.

It's unlikely to just "go away" in the short term. They will have to allow it to bed in. If after a few years it hasn't done the desired job it will have to be scrapped and a new idea brought in. Not sure what that new idea will be though. Certainly I can't think of one

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037370#Comment_122037370

The EU said we (and all other member states) need to increase recycling rates on drink containers.

No didn't. They said we needed to increase collection rates, completely different.

It's unlikely to just "go away" in the short term. They will have to allow it to bed in. If after a few years it hasn't done the desired job it will have to be scrapped and a new idea brought in. Not sure what that new idea will be though. Certainly I can't think of one

We are probably 12 months off having a new minister for the environment and there is a strong possibility that person won't be a member of a Green Party or maybe even a member of any party.

Things can go away all time.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037454#Comment_122037454

No didn't. They said we needed to increase collection rates, completely different.

How are they completely different? Yes, collection is one step and recycling is another but they arr part of the same process

We are probably 12 months off having a new minister for the environment and there is a strong possibility that person won't be a member of a Green Party or maybe even a member of any party.

Things can go away all time.

The way politics goes in this country govts usually do giveaways (or generally things people want to see happen) coming towards the end of the term. So this could be with us until 2029-2030 and regardless they won't scrap it without an alternative scheme to increase the rates. Which I can't think of any

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037506#Comment_122037506

How are they completely different? Yes, collection is one step and recycling is another but they arr part of the same process

Because if I give you a bottle that doesn't mean it has magically recycled itself.

Recycling is a completely different process, 25% of products put on the market have to be made from some sort of recycled material is the only mention of recycling in the directive. No one has offered our current rate so we could have well already exceeded it.

This scheme is about anti litter, bottles and cans make up about 3% of all litter.

Again it's lunacy. Green Theatre for the sake of it.

The way politics goes in this country govts usually do giveaways (or generally things people want to see happen) coming towards the end of the term. So this could be with us until 2029-2030 and regardless they won't scrap it without an alternative scheme to increase the rates. Which I can't think of any

The scheme doesn't work.

The previous one did.

It's that simple. But but it might, as people get fleeced millions probably won't sit right, will it?

A previous Environment Minister called bullshít on it not so long ago, he was completely right, absolutely nothing to suggest the next one won't do similar.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037454#Comment_122037454

One of the Healy-Raes?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037563#Comment_122037563

No. Danny Foreign Affairs and Michael Education.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037558#Comment_122037558

Because if I give you a bottle that doesn't mean it has magically recycled itself.

True, but I'm not a recycling operator. Giving it to re-turn or your bin company is very different to giving it to me as the expectation is that the latter would recycle the product

The scheme doesn't work.

The previous one did.

The previous scheme didn't work. Collection rates were only ~60%, in order to get rid of this scheme it would need to be replaced by another that can achieve 90%+

ToweringPerformance

Mine just go into the bin now either black or green whatever has space.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037677#Comment_122037677

The previous scheme didn't work

Really? I don't ever remember having to drive miles to a dustbin to be told fúck off.

It's the definition of lunacy.

True, but I'm not a recycling operator. Giving it to re-turn or your bin company is very different to giving it to me as the expectation is that the latter would recycle the product

Neither are re-turn.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037757#Comment_122037757

Really? I don't ever remember having to drive miles to a dustbin to be told fúck off.

What I mean is the previous scheme had collection rates that were too low. The new one was introduced to improve these figures

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037771#Comment_122037771

Those figures don't exist.

But how can they improve if the bin tells you to fúck off?

The old scheme saw me offer near 100% bottles and cans for recycling, that is now down to 0% as it stands.

Primarily because my bin never told me to fúck off.

Any rational individual would look at that and declare lunacy.

But not you for some reason. Interesting.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037771#Comment_122037771

What figures are these, and I mean actual figures for the specific items in the scope of the scheme, not figures relating to an entire category, not all of which are even in the scheme.

dxhound2005

Did my first two plastic 25 cent bottles in local Tesco today. Tesco own brand Soda water empties. Took about 10 seconds, and zero delay at checkout using the voucher. I will be testing others in my locality in the coming weeks. It is easy for me to take a few empties when doing my shopping.

The machine in that Tesco is right beside the plastic recycling installation. I was talking to a person last week who did not know that some shops have plastic recycling and battery recycling installations. It might encourage people to recycle more of their plastic.

https://tescoireland.ie/sustainability/product/packaging

Qrt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037203#Comment_122037203

strangely enough I saw them empty the machine at Lidl beside my office and everything was flat like a pancake, they must have different spec machines

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122040434#Comment_122040434

I was thinking there must be something odd about Lidl machines.

Some of them have signs telling customers to remove bottle caps and some don't.

It's a bit unusual seeing as Lidl was the only company to run trials before the main roll out.

Also they have extensive experience of DRS from other countries including Germany.

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122040434#Comment_122040434

Just back from one - both out of order but some girl came over to try and fix them, the plastic bin was full of uncrushed bottles

Deebles McBeebles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122036320#Comment_122036320

Have they got the big dog himself though? Big Simo Harris?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122040743#Comment_122040743

I was in one this am.

Two machines both working, a few people with small number of returns appeared to be doing fine.

All very relaxed.

CramCycle

First attempt today, about half the cans spat back out, half again were accepted on retry. After that I just gave up and the rest went into the recycling bin.

Qrt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122043443#Comment_122043443

which machines did you use? all return logo?

I’ve only used Dunnes ones so far but all have worked fine. Lidls are a joke for uptime.

esker72

I'd love to see the stats on what % of bottles that go in machines are actually paid out. My experience on my three visits was about 60% got paid out on. That led me to give up and just chuck them in the green bin like I always did. An interesting side effect is now instead of buying 2l bottles of Diet Coke, I'm now buying 5l bottles of water to go in the fridge instead. That's probably better for me so every cloud has a silver lining. I think they'll end up increasing the deposit to try to force people into using the crappy machines but given the abysmal performance of the machines so far, that may just push the prices to the point where some people stop buying these drinks. The recycling will never get to 90% but the number of units may drop which might be a good enough result in itself. Someone might then ask the question why they didn't just bring in a tax and not bother spending millions on machines and maintenance and pissing the whole country off.

BorneTobyWilde

Mr Price claiming all their stores do manual returns, asked in one, they had no clue what I was talking about. No one is complying with their obligation to have a machine, or do manual returns, they sign up to manual returns to avoid the cost of machines, but in reality they don't do manual returns at all, even though the regulations says they need to have one or the other if they have the space/

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122044762#Comment_122044762

Aldi, do you mean the machine or the can had the logo? A few coke cans had a QR on it that I wasn't convinced was a proper one as it had a "Scan for more" printed beside it but some of them were taken so who knows. I didn't care enough to spend much more time, it is a bit of a slow process and only one machine, my kid will be doing it for pocket moneygoing forward, leave them at the machine while I do the shop.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122044797#Comment_122044797

I think the reason for not another tax was that the money isn't the issue, but that just because alot of boards users recycle, it would appear that the rest of the country is not as good at it.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122045696#Comment_122045696

There is no scheme QR code. Coke have had their own marketing QR code for ages, including on non deposit cans.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037370#Comment_122037370

You can't think of one?

How about a review of the scheme that had been in place for a few decades - see if it can be tweaked somehow? A lot of people used this scheme religiously. If the scheme mechanics don't allow for enough "counting" of collection rates then that aspect of it needs to be tweaked.

Looks look at the bigger issue with collection though (with this scheme also) the "on the go" stuff. If people don't take their empties home with them to recycle there, they need to have some easy way to do it while on the go. I dunno - perhaps a machine as advanced but maybe smaller than the DRS machine? Or some addition of more recycle bins in our environment?

Again, I don't have the details - I am't a consultantancy firm on multiples of millions for input but those to areas would be easiest to tweak.

We've had to deal with increased costs of a majority of drinks in the past few months as a result of this scheme, more awkward recycling methods, a higher cost to our environment overall and best of all, lower recycling rates.

I don't see any of those things improving after June.

Qrt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122045696#Comment_122045696

Any container needs to have the Irish return logo to be accepted, QR codes don’t come into it. It’s all based around the barcodes. Previously multipacks wouldn’t have barcodes on each can but now they do if they’re new stock. It sounds like you were just putting non DRS containers into the machine.

TherapyBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122045951#Comment_122045951

I’ve noticed there’s (still) no Re-Turn logo on the Robinsons Barley Water bottles (both orange & lemon flavours) but they both pay out when you put them in the machine. The normal Robinsons bottles, apple & blackcurrant for example (& anything not the flavoured barley water versions I’d guess) are rejected & don’t pay out.

Worth trying any bottles you have. Try them in the machines but expect to bring them home & recycle them in your normal recycling wheelie bin at home if they get rejected.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122046036#Comment_122046036

Easier to use the barcode checker on the return site in advance.

Plenty of stuff that may or may not have had a charge but will pay out

Escapees

Actually I personally find the re-turn barcode checker useless in that you have to manually enter the barcode to perform the check. Granted you can use a third party barcode scanner app to scan the container and generate the barcode number but this is messy. It is actually easier for most to just try the can or container in a machine and confirm whether it is recognised.