Deposit return scheme (recycling)

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940042#Comment_121940042

The company perks of working at Re-Turn will be excellent. I expect to hear of free hot yoga sessions in the office, an onsite gym, company electric cars for everyone from the MD down to the cleaner.

Gary_dunne

I've used the scheme many times and have never had any problems with rejects or machines being out of action either in Aldi (Nutgrove) or SuperValu (Churchtown). It seems that I'm in the minority in this case.

I was behind the scheme after seeing the success through personal experience that it has had in the Netherlands and Germany, where they also collect glass bottles, which should have been included here too.

My only personal gripe that I have is the vouchers have to be used in specific stores. Makes absolutely 0 sense. The vouchers should be freely available to be used in any shop that is not exempt from the scheme. Ideally cash should also be an option as the deposit was paid in cash and therefore should be able to be easily retrieved in cash.

chonix

Today saw how people are blocking multiple machines by tossing the bottles within the hole. Majestic.

I got frustrated that I had to get my bottles back with me because someone blocked em all. Do we have to teach people how to use a machine when the instructions are clearly at the front?

Why they don't add a punching bag just to the side of the machine to get some extra credit? That would motivate me a lot certainly

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940653#Comment_121940653

My reasons against this scheme are because it is ill thought out. What we have is a good idea implemented poorly. Take the good idea and implement it properly

• Use machines that aren't constantly out of order, when machines are out of order shops need to accept manual returns
• Machines should be able to accept crushed cans
• Increase the deposit to €1 per product, a good round number, nobody gets confused, more worthwhile to return
• Include glass and dairy products in the scheme
• Machines should act like ATM's and offer cash or a credit/debit card terminal at the point of return instead of just a voucher
• No product without the logo should ever have had a deposit applied as was the case in the early days.
• Some products without re-turn logo are returnable and have deposit applied, somebody needs to be fired for that massive blunder
• Public owned and free at point-of-use side of road waste collection
• RVMs at glass recycling depots that give cash or card payment

Before considering deposit return we should have considered glass bottle type returns or adding an extra bin to the collection schedule for cans and bottles

I finish typing and realise there's a lot of ways this scheme could be better

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940875#Comment_121940875

I was in Limerick for the band championship last Sunday. Tesco in Arthurs Quay, possibly the most prime location you could get - both RVMs out of order. Somebody who bought a can or bottle of coke would have had to bring the empty home with them and that simply wasn't happening. This is an occasion where you really want to have as much brought back as possible, perhaps even getting extra RVMs

My only personal gripe that I have is the vouchers have to be used in specific stores. Makes absolutely 0 sense

I assume the idea is that they are expecting 5m returns a day, how many unique digits would you need on a barcode to cover every store and how quickly can the computer systems keep up? The idea is you return while doing your shopping so allowing the vouchers for any store probably isn't needed by the majority but if you're ever stuck you can get a special voucher, known widely as cash, at the till

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940875#Comment_121940875

glass recycling is already at 84% you would reduce that introducing this sort of scheme.

Gary_dunne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940939#Comment_121940939

Ye there are instances where it doesn't make any logical sense ie, I'll be heading to the Ireland match later on with some mates and we usually have a few beers on the walk to the stadium, we can't exactly save them up, bring them into the stadium so we can return them to a RVM after the match. We'll just have to take the 15c hits on these.

Deebles McBeebles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940972#Comment_121940972

It's almost as if they expected a certain amount of 15c hits to be taken.

Gadgetman496

I put a question to a guy that was emptying the bins,

Question:

What if I buy a 2L bottle of Coke in Dunnes and pay my 25c deposit but I return the bottle to a machine in ALDI and collect my 25c from ALDI, are Dunnes up 25c and ALDI down 25c?

Answer:

It doesn't matter, the original 25c deposit went to Coke (or the company of whichever product you purchased) and not the store. When the deposit is collected the relevant company gets a chargeback.

Is that how it works or was that waffle?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941155#Comment_121941155

That's how it works in other countries. Ireland, though...?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941155#Comment_121941155

Yes, that's how it works. Deposits handled at the wholesale level.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941155#Comment_121941155

Aldi paid the deposit on the bottle to the supplier, you paid ALDI the deposit, the supplier paid dunnes for the deposit you collected plus a handling fee so nobody loses out

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940972#Comment_121940972

Probably still cheaper than buying the beer in Lansdowne Road, what's it €7 or €8 a pint now? I've had to change that habit myself so a hip flask now instead of a bag of cans, not the worst change admittedly

bog master

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941112#Comment_121941112

The Minister has already stated that unclaimed deposits will fund ReTurn.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941471#Comment_121941471

That's a fine line isn't it... so they basically had to build in enough unclaimed deposits to fund ReTurn, but still hit the 90% target.

Hence there's almost a need to screw those who get home deliveries, those who live in villages without RVMs, not to have the machines wheelchair accessible etc

They dont want to get 95% or 100% returned.

Deebles McBeebles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941471#Comment_121941471

Yep, that was pretty much my point. Paying for that as well as to the private refuse companies for a service that we will use less and less, while they charge more and more.

Gadgetman496

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941366#Comment_121941366

You got the store reversed there, but I get what your were saying.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939875#Comment_121939875

Re-turn, the company running the scheme, said that daily amount had not been reached yet as some old stock was still being sold that did not trigger the charge.

“At this early stage, we cannot estimate how many deposits have been charged and therefore, cannot estimate how much in deposits are waiting to be claimed,” a spokesperson said.

This is absolute nonsense and it's frustrating that the journalist in question didn't drill in on it.

The retailers will know exactly how many deposits they have charged, they have to know for accounting purposes. Re-Turn should have this data, if they do not, how can they possibly run this scheme? If they don't have this data, how can they possibly know how effective the scheme is? How are they able to properly account for the money they send Retailers for reimbursement if they do not have this data?

What is more likely here is the numbers are terrible and Re-Turn would prefer not to make them public at this time.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940645#Comment_121940645

Yes it was a Green Party policy.

However there is a thing called Cabinet Collective Responsibility.

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael were right there with the GP on this.

Also the main opposition party Sinn Fein supported the introduction of DRS.

I'm not sure about the other parties.

Deebles McBeebles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941516#Comment_121941516

Honestly it's astounding that not everyone can see that. It's awkward on purpose. Like collecting your change from a Dublin Bus back in the day.

Genghis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941590#Comment_121941590

Of the 5m items sold daily I am confident that as of today 4m are being charged a deposit, this is based on previously posted research of supermarkets (e.g. Tesco is 100% deposit stock, Supervalu 83%, Dunnes 80%). Also all stock being sold in the back door of all retail outlets is now fully deposit stock, it is literally the slow moving items sitting on shelves in stores that is non deposit stock.

I watch closely for data from re-turn, and they reported 5.6m items by 12 March but nothing since. I thought maybe they announce 10m items collected by 23 March (meaning daily collection of 400,000 items between 12 and 23 March), but I now wonder if they have actually crossed that yet (surely they have).

So as of now I believe we are at a maximum collection rate of around 10%, which is c. / est. 400k returns from at least 4m deposit items.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940907#Comment_121940907

i'm against the scheme too, but some of my reasons differ than yours. Mainly it's down to principle, the whole thing is forced on the public and pretty much is a piss take to manipulate the public into helping them cover their behinds with recycling numbers after they (ireland/govt) got caught with their pants down by the EU. It's greed and lack of proper recycling with our recycleables not being recycled for years that has caused all this. Their solution: bully the public into partaking, by holding their deposits as ransome. Punishment based incentive instead of a reward based one for something that should already be a VOLUNTARY activity is an absolute piss take. What next, force us into donating to charity? force us into funding gaa? i know thats quite a leap. but im trying to illustrate the "force" part, and how we have no real say in any of this other than refusing to partake and sucking up our losses or boycotting entirely by not buying the products.

Maybe these drinks manufactuers should use a different non-recycleable material. or less profitable one, or just stop making plastic in general. imagine drinking coca cola in a capri sun thingy or from a milk carton lol.

Increasing the deposit would initially be in my best interests as i'd stand to make an easy nice amount from it, but putting greed aside i would be against an increased deposit and think its a terrible idea, not just due to inspiring more tiktok sticker fraud, but also due to some bottles already costing under €1 like the sparkling water in tesco which used to be 30c-60c pre-scheme, and now currently sits at 90c-95c thanks to the deposit. is it fair that a bottle of some drinks will cost more for the deposit than the drink itself? is it fair to see some drinks double or even triple in price solely due to the deposit being added? i think not. Higher deposits is probebly whats gonna happen if enough people boycott this scam of a scheme, as its more incentive to recycle.

The products you mention without a logo that are returnable are from companies that were forced to register late with return and had their hands tied and could not change the barcode or add the logo, or just did'nt want to have the logo on alot of their already shipped out products, these companies paid extra/more than the usual suspects who have the logo now on their product as they don't have to create anythinng new and still can keep making their same thing as they are without changing anything. They paid an upfront undisclosed amount as a blanket pyment to cover all of their products that were already out on the shelves (and those which have been for years) and got bullied to also pay extra to account for anyone who may have previously stored these containers (hoarders) hoping to cash in on day 1. idk if its a forever thing or temporary, but they might pull of of ireland, keep selling their items, or maybe even bear the logo in the future, who knows.

Cash inside the RVM's is a really bad idea as the security on the machines is already not so great and shows that ___ are not willing to put too much money into these machines as it is. With money being put into the machine it would open up a whole new need for more security, and make the machines a target for criminals. Would cause more hassle than its worth, despite it being more convenient for the consumer. At the moment if an rvm is smashed up, all they can get is a roll of paper and a bunch of mashed recycle garbage.

i would however like to see the machines accept crushed cans.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941544#Comment_121941544

Ah it's been a long day, and it's only 2 o clock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941516#Comment_121941516

You're forgetting the money they will make from recycling the products. A kg of Aluminium is worth €1 for example (scrapyard.ie price) so small 330ml can weighing 20g is worth about 2c. Presumably re-turn will get a better price by skipping the middle man.

If they get a 100% return rate, so 5m products returned per day, and there's 1m of these cans per day in that mix (being generous) that's €20k/day or €7.3m/year they make for what is not a lot of effort. Remember as well that most cans are bigger than 330ml so these are minimum prices

Can't find any recent prices for PET although I do remember they soared a few years back

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941544#Comment_121941544

re-turn reinburses the store, not the supplier. The unreturned deposits, re-turn get to keep. They hope to get enough to build a recycling plant or some crap.

its like with national lottery. a person can buy a scratch card, and then return to a different store to collect the winnings from it, the national lottery then reinburse the store that paid out the small amount of winnings on their behalf.

in this case there are no actual winners as the prize is only getting your own money back (the extra you paid when purchasing the bottle/can aka the deposit) and re-turn are the national lottery company

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941727#Comment_121941727

Cans weigh about 10g and are not pure aluminium (due to the printing), and are also two mixed grades of aluminium (the lid, and the rest) so get lower prices. There's a fairly substantial income there but probably less than half of what you were thinking.

PET is worth a tiny amount, fractions of a cent a bottle at best.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941737#Comment_121941737

The figure of aluminium is taken from wikipedia, perhaps not the most reliable source, remember most aluminium cans are 500ml (beer) not quite double the weight but substantially more again

What's the figure for PET that you have?

The most recent I can find is from 2022 and shows €1.69/kg which would make it more valuable than aluminium and, according to the article, more costly than raw PET

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/recycled-plastic-prices-double-as-drinks-makers-battle-for-supplies-1.4778460#:~:text=The%20cost%20of%20flakes%20of,fresh%20recycled%20plastic%20usage%20targets.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941775#Comment_121941775

The price of reprocessed ready for re-use PET; and the price that the recyclers will pay for raw bottles (with their labels and lids still there, which are not PET) are not comparable.

This gives figures for the UK, 2022, shows that mixed bottle value went from as low as £80 a tonne to a high of £430 a tonne over the year - doesn't specify if that's just bottles or bottles with the associated HD/LDPE from lids and labels.

edit: just noticed they've 2023 figures, and they're even worse - £20-£200/tonne range

Small water bottles, the type that would be most desirable to stop people using, are often only about 6g, so you really need a lot to make a tonne.

randomuser02125

I had no great opinion about the scheme until the weekend just gone. Machines seemed to have red screens around 1/4 of the time but you could live with that, just walk back to the car with the bag. Anyway, went to a Lidl I occasionally use on the way home and went to pay with a return voucher from my usual Lidl. Not accepted. Cashier explained that the voucher is only valid for the shop where the return voucher is issued. I genuinely could not believe it, remarked it was unbelievable to the cashier, who agreed with me. A teenager next in line piped up that it was f'n ridiculous.

Next day I went to my usual Lidl with a bag of 6 2L bottles. First 5 no problem, 6th one gets stuck. Had to go in and get a worker who described the whole scheme as a complete pain. 5 minutes later I had my €1.25 voucher but I asked what happened to my 25c for the last one as well. The worker went in and retrieved it and I got my voucher. So around 15 minutes returning 6 bottles.

I've no idea how often we can expect jammed machines to cause the second problem. But the first problem is just ridiculous to me, or did no-one else assume vouchers would be good for a whole company?

mod

im aware there’s a “trick” with printing barcodes to scam the machines lads but we won’t be endorsing that craic here. Any discussion of that will lead to a deleted post and a warning.

Repeated offenders will be banned.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941690#Comment_121941690

I guarantee someone will come on and dispute your figures.