Two die in the Ironman at Youghal

iwillhtfu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006218#Comment_121006218

Perhaps this has been badly worded in the report but I'm not sure giving it a bash while on holidays is the best lead in. He could well have been training for this and a veteran triathlete though.

Montage of Feck

The only issue that I have is that Ironman is a for profit organisation, this wasn't organised by a triathlon clubs etc so in that case a higher responsibility has to be on the organisers.

But having said that it is an individual event and I'm all for personal responsibility so if people want to compete in such conditions fair play to them.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006221#Comment_121006221

so if 500 people took part they are 20 times over average on deaths

and even worse, with it just being in the swim

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006252#Comment_121006252

sure would you even stop if someone collapsed in front of you if you had a PB on the cards

iwillhtfu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006320#Comment_121006320

It would make no difference to profits if the swim was cancelled. Refunds from IM are as rare as rocking horse shite and competitors for the 70.3 had the option to withdraw and defer the day before.

Chris871

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006266#Comment_121006266

Badly worded, the 70.3 race had been sold out for a good few months. Nobody saw a poster during the week and decided to dive in.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006331#Comment_121006331

The stats in that article arent accurate. He's taking the death count in every triathlon worldwide in that period, against only the amount of participants in Ironman events for the same period. Other articles above suggest it to be closer to 1.5/2 per 100,000.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006265#Comment_121006265

And therein may lay part of the issue with this event. You need a certain number of entrants to make it viable. Those at the elite end will have trained hard and experienced rough conditions and likely well able to handle themselves and/or make a judgement call.

But there are often shorter options at these triathlon type events and the bulk of the entrants tend towards these. They make up the numbers and make the event viable overall. These tend to be in older age cohorts and/ or more likely to have mostly trained in the pool for swimming etc.

Time will tell with the investigation but putting these latter entrants into the sea yesterday mightn't have been the wisest. Who knows, they could have had reservations but felt it was OK to get in as there was safety cover. Whereas if a training day, they'd have looked and said no way.

Looking at the video above taken off the swim in progress, there's a lot of people in the water and not really that many rescue boats/ kayaks in view. How could they possibly keep an eye on all those swimmers?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121004692#Comment_121004692

I assume all entrants sign legal documents to make sure that they know they are entering the competition at their own risk due to its dangerous nature etc etc.

I think part of the appeal of these competitions for people is not just the test of endurance. but the danger aspect. Similar to rallying driving etc.

Sigma101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006221#Comment_121006221

The figures give no insights into the possibility of a fatality occuring at an event.

Ironman claims 170+ events per year. Last year, for instance, there were fatalities at 11 Ironman events. So the probability of a fatality at an Ironman event is around 11//170 or 6.5%. This is the figure that local authorities need to take into account when deciding on whether permission for an event should be granted.

But once you accept this figure and are aware of the risk then there's no justification for cancelling when a fatality occurs, in my view.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006320#Comment_121006320

There are no refunds though , so hard to say it was purely a monetary decision to go ahead with it.

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006529#Comment_121006529

it depends on what the fatalities are

if someone dies of a heart attack running on a road with no outside influences well maybe

but if someone drowns in the swim or you have the shitshow in the videos then no

you stop it before it begins, you don't just say well theres a 6% chance of someone dying worldwide

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006450#Comment_121006450

Maybe?

I think there were about 1500 entrants in both events and the entry fee was about €600. There's no one entering this on a whim.

In contrast, the Dublin marathon gets well over 20k entrants.

Marty Bird

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006616#Comment_121006616

I think it was around 1800-2000 for the half and around 700 for the full.

Bacchus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006331#Comment_121006331

The number that took part is more like 3000 so it's more like a little over twice the average overall which isn't a huge outlier. It is a bit worse looking at swim only, 0.5 per 3000 vs 2 deaths at this event. As tragic as it is, this isn't something new or unique.

EDIT: Looking at the actual race results, it's just shy of 1900.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006606#Comment_121006606

Trouble with that policy is that if/ when the event organisers cancel, the level of entries would fall for subsequent events. Clearly apart from the training & equipment required, there's a lot of expense attached to actually entering and attending these events. So people would be very disappointed with cancellation.

On the other hand, could see the entry falling anyway in the shorter format here if it runs again. You pays yer money, you expect the organisers not to risk your life unreasonably.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006634#Comment_121006634

I didn't realise it was that big. That implies c 2500 on that rough swim course over a period of time? How many rescue boats/ eyes on the water? Did they have drones? I guess you wouldn't have noticed overall but were you aware of safety cover in the water or just head down.

Jazz Hands

I don't know anything about Ironman Events but I'm guessing everyone is fully aware of the risks and based on the different disciplines you know your risking your life and that's what you train for.

Based on the above, is that why the event continued?

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006634#Comment_121006634

Just checked the results, about 600 in the full and 1200 in the half, so 1800 total

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006668#Comment_121006668

Entry into the water is staggered.

The first entrants were in the water before 7am with the last going in around 8.30 I think.

I would say most were in the water for no more than 30 mins.

I don't mean to be bad Furze, but you started this thread and it's clear you have no idea what the Ironman is about.

iwillhtfu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006750#Comment_121006750

The staggering was a **** show also. Last year there was a visible delay and approx 6 athletes released at a time with maybe 5s between. It seemed to be a free for all this year and when they clearly saw athletes being pushed back from the waves they should've halted entry and increased delay times.

In saying all this though it was one person that died from suspected drowning while in the water, the other had exited the swim when he collapsed.

Agee with posters re water cover seemed to be lacking but I have taken part in many of these races and open water races and I wouldn't know where to begin with organising swim safety. I also don't think I've ever paid any attention to the swim safety team prior to the race.

Next years entries are due for release this week I think so it will be interesting to see what IM do. I think it may be the end of the event for Youghal which would be a shame as the local crowds are phenomenal.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006750#Comment_121006750

Of course I know what a triathlon is, the Ironman is a brand of this type of event. Most have cycling & running as core, others vary swimming with canoeing etc. They all seem to be organised a bit differently. Lengths vary and these challenge triathlon type events have become very popular. There's businesses running them and money to be made. So??

Bacchus

Could they not just move the swim in to the bay? I'm not familiar with conditions in there TBH but I have to assume it's more stable/predictable due to it not being as exposed as the section along the boardwalk. Making an announcement that the swim will be there might help allay fears. It would be a pity to see it end. Youghal have had such rotten luck with it since they got it between COVID and awful weather some years. Despite that, there's been a great buzz about the area the last 2 years with it. The tragedy yesterday will dampen that mood a bit for next year, so IM need to navigate this carefully and with respect in order to keep support.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005698#Comment_121005698

This..

Its interesting that the biggest noise about the swim are coming from people who saw a 5-second clip on Social Media. You aren't hearing the same negative noise from people who actually did the race and swim.

gormdubhgorm

To be completely honest when I heard the two people died, my first thought was at least they died doing something they love and had a passion for. Not many people can say that.

iwillhtfu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121007000#Comment_121007000

Originally for the Sat 70.3 they moved the swim further into the bay, the issue here is that swimmers would be swimming against the current on the later half of the swim where they'd be more tired. Judging by the swim splits on Sunday most would not have been able to swim back the distance to the exit in the current. The tide there is also pretty big 18m I think so as tides drop rocky out crops etc become exposed and at one point the swim exit is actually a beach.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006477#Comment_121006477

that is in no way going to absolve the organisers of their responsibility if it is decided they should not have proceeded. they cannot simply waive their responsibilities away with a piece of paper.

would be a licence to run an event badly.

Bmomoran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121007033#Comment_121007033

regardless of conditions beyond surf line, 3,000 participants had to make their way though that swell to get there.

Francis McM

It's very hard to understand why the competition wasn't stopped, or moved to less dangerous location.

silverharp

it would be interesting to get a survey of the actual competitors to see their opinion if it was irresponsibly run or not

Yeah_Right

I've only seen footage online but from what I've seen, the conditions don't look that bad. Waves don't look that big or powerful. More just a choppy, onshore swell. Obviously I can't see what the currents and tides were like and no idea if there was any sort of undertow. However, if you weren't experienced swimming in those conditions because all your training was in a pool or calm seas, it would be challenging.

From what I've seen, a lot of people who take up triathlons as adults come from cycling and running backgrounds. Swimming is their weakest discipline and nearly all the training they do for it is in a pool. I have no idea if that's the case with these 2 men. Just adding my 2 cents.

While its tragic that 2 people lost their lives, I think continuing the event was the right call.