Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

Goldengirl

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-style/people/2024/03/26/direct-provision-takes-away-your-ability-to-dream/

I am aware that some won't like this but you know fvck it , I have read a load of negative sxxt about refugees and that they leech off society , so here's a bit of positivity for you all .

Well done to that lady and all the hard working NGOs that helped her .

Geert von Instetten

The policies were apparently sufficiently effective to prompt the Swedish Government to publish an opinion piece on the issue in which a year-on-year decline of 26% was proclaimed. Denmark experienced a year-on-year decline as well, despite maintaining a relatively low rate overtime anyway.

sonofenoch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941354#Comment_121941354

Added to the far right buzzword you'll see alot of snobbery coming into play by the pro immigration left, be it a specific area or accent being scorned upon

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943876#Comment_121943876

Lol nothing to the " snobbery " oozing from that post !

werenotthere

Absolutely there has to be a middle ground.

We can't house all irish nationals who require social housing currently, we certainly can't house every person who applies for asylum in Ireland, without a serious shift in policy.

How do we create an equitable hierarchy of migrants? We can't stop refugees seeking safety here without cutting ties to Europe, USA and the UN. These political relationships are the only reason we are one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

We think this problem is bad now! It is going to get so much worse over the coming decades with climate change and geopolitical challenges that come as a consequence of it.

Ireland is going to see wealthy migrants from southern Europe buying up property to avoid ever increasing heatwaves pushing up prices here further.

Things are going to get so much worse without large scale social housing development and a capacity based quota of migrants.

Otherwise it's gonna be far right protectionism policies democratically voted in that had us living in shite until the 1960s.

mrslancaster

H. McEntee to seek approval to sign up to the EU Migration & Asylum Pact. (paywall).

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/ireland-to-opt-into-biggest-overhaul-of-eu-migration-rules-in-decades/

H. McEntee spoke about it in the Dail back in Feb. Seems the new plan will go live in 2026 to allow time for new local legislation. Presumably many people will still expect to see changes in the meantime. Some info here:

https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/promoting-our-european-way-life/migration-and-asylum_en

https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/promoting-our-european-way-life/migration-and-asylum/new-pact-migration-and-asylum_en#an-inclusive-approach

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943971#Comment_121943971

Exactly. When the country hadn't a penny, successive governments invested in huge social housing projects. They seem to want higher and higher rent and purchase prices, by allowing private developers and overseas investment companies to take over the provision of housing.

If it was some kind of experiment, it has now been proven not to work. Time for government to start providing again.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943815#Comment_121943815

An Irish times new to the parish positive refugee story- who could a guessed!

Maybe someday they'll interview some of the 63% of those from the congo unemployed? Course they will!

Great work from the hard working NGO's, indeed- do you work for an NGO?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944305#Comment_121944305

Just proves that State sponsored mandatory English lessons should be implemented, in order to give people a chance. As they do in other countries. Benefits everyone

minimary

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/03/27/landmark-immigration-plan-will-commit-to-avoid-use-of-last-hotel-in-town-for-asylum-seekers/

https://archive.ph/ZBRpD

So we're going to build massive accommodation centres at a huge cost, isn't that basically saying that Helen's new legislation won't succeed and bring numbers down and people will still be in the process for ages?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943840#Comment_121943840

Very interesting, I had given a quick look for some figures earlier and couldn't find them.

I'm still not sure such policies would be effective here.

For a start we don't have the facilities or capacity to start detaining failed asylum cases. Our prisons and police services are strained as is. We'd again be relying on private firms, which would going by how much Australia paid for such services would be hugely expensive.

It has been shown in other cases that where one European region introduces deterrent policies, IPAs simply chose another region. I'm not sure we're in the same position as Sweden and Denmark to start passing people on elsewhere. I'd think we're far more dependent on good relations with Europe than either of these countries. Also, were other European countries collectively to start implementing these methods there's a possibility they'd simply cancel each other out.

After that the longer term implications of these methods haven't been shown. A problem Australia has had with indefinite detention is that some people wouldn't leave and couldn't be deported. This lead to people being given leave to stay etc after years in detention which I think could well lead to bigger problems down the line. I read that Sweden is offering very generous cash offers for people to 'voluntarily' leave, presumably to counter this issue, would that go down well here? On the other hand Denmark has gone for quite extreme measures, putting children in youth prisons, asylum seekers in solitary confinement etc. With our history of Magdalene Laundries, industrial schools, etc I don't know if the Irish public would support this.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944313#Comment_121944313

Whilst on this point I wholeheartedly agree with you, one swallow doesn't make a summer as it were.

There's never a question as to how and why this person is in Ireland. to my knowledge there are no direct flights from Zimbabwe to Ireland.

And whilst I am sure she is grateful for the supports received (.. the works! as it's put) - how many taxpayers (and legal immigrants on working visas are 100% included in that!) are waiting for medical help for themselves and their children ? How many of our own domestic violence victims are stuck with an abusive partner as there is a shortage of housing and we've p***ed away billions in recent years on new arrivals, many of whom should not be here ?

I'm saddened to say our "protection" policy is being becoming like the X Factor, saddest story wins - and we have no media investigating stories, just peddling them to the gullible - well meaning and doing what they believe is right I know - but still gullible.

Geert von Instetten

The initial claim was that policies of deterrence are ineffective, there is evidence to the contrary in Scandinavia, notably in Sweden, an EU Member State that only recently adopted rigid asylum policies and has had to rapidly invest in the development of relevant infrastructure. If Sweden is representative of the effectiveness of deterrence in the immediate term, Denmark is representative of the effectiveness of deterrence overtime, Denmark has managed to maintain comparatively low levels of asylum for years. In as far as infrastructure itself is concerned, the idea that Government would oppose investment in this area because of public expense is inane, migration is a global issue and is emerging as an issue of salience for the electorate, further, there is considerable expense involved in facilitating present levels of asylum, in the immediate term e.g. emergency accommodation, subsistence and welfare etc. - and in projected expenses in education, housing and welfare. In as far as the policies are implemented are concerned, they extend beyond financial incentives and detention - detention, it is worth adding, is relatively widespread in the EU - and include policies as inoffensive as increased border protections. Ireland is an island on the Western edge of the EU, it is by nature one of the less intuitive EU Member States in which to claim asylum, deterrence has the potential to have a considerable effect.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944305#Comment_121944305

You know I don 't. But even you surely can appreciate that thatis a good story.. As opposed to the constant barrage of horrible stuff normally being posted here.

There are plenty of jgood stories about deserving genuine people and its tine this thread saw them.

creeper1

Fianna fail councillor Noel Thomas is the most recent resignation from the party. He cites the party as being "out of touch" with the electorate as his reason.

Could this be a welcome trend?

There's a lot of cynicism that independents just vote with their ex parties. Is this justified?

Shouldn't there be sinn fein members resigning as well? There's no other party more out of touch from their base as them.

creeper1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121942881#Comment_121942881

Who exactly would you like to see in power?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944589#Comment_121944589

I'd agree that deterrent measures have potential in Ireland, and have acknowledged the same earlier in the thread, but I very much think the effect would only be in the short term.

I can't see that southern European countries would accept all of their northern counterparts pushing the issue back on them. I'm not overly familiar with Sweden and Denmark's EU relationships but our economy is hugely depending on offering mnc's an English speaking, EU headquarters, with a very low corporation tax rate. I think in terms of leverage, and the rest of the EU's ability to apply pressure to comply, we're in a far weaker position than the Nordic countries.

In terms of cost I see your argument that the long term savings might outweigh initial investment. I think though that our initial investment would have to be so high that we'd need to be quite certain that we would be able to apply these measures in the long term. Right now we simply don't have the police resources to track IPAs in the way Sweden and Norway do where they're not placed in detention. The purpose of this tracking is to ensure unsuccessful applicants don't slip into the shadow economy. We would be completely exposed in that regard. For providing detention services we would have to rely on the private market, I'm not sure how this works in the Nordic countries, but I suspect it would follow the pattern typical in Ireland where cost explodes, as it has in Australia. See our children's hospital etc.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944745#Comment_121944745

Something I think that is very noticeable is that councillors in FF and FG are nowhere near as supportive of the parties as was once the case. I'm not really talking about immigration, just about issues in general. I predict both will move a bit more to the right in the coming years on issues such as social welfare, crime and immigration. They're essentially catch-all parties that have wandered a bit from their bases, but I think they'll want to pivot soon.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944908#Comment_121944908

Why would posters assume that everyone who has a different opinion to them works for an NGO.

Its lazy. Most people don't think like a few posters on boards

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944706#Comment_121944706

I posted a graph from the cso showing unemployment rate of 63% for those from the congo, n over 40% for Nigerians. Horrible stuff for the Irish taxpayer.

Over 1100 black axe gang members now operating in Ireland according to garda head yesterday.

'Even you' - I won't be the bait, ta all the same!

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944976#Comment_121944976

I think they'll pivot alright and the process is already underway.

The problem is FFG have always been quite right-wing economically. They might bring in some cuts on medical cards, social housing etc. but fundamentally their approaches to housing and healthcare won't change.

And I think at this point it looks quite likely we'll see 5 more years of FFG propped up by some anti-immigration grouping.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944976#Comment_121944976

Agree with this, think both parties councillors feel they are being let down by their parties in government. But again it comes back to government td's not listening to party members or electorate, and taking advice from media and ngo's.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943971#Comment_121943971

Finally a balanced view on the situation! I agree fully with you, we need to approach the problem from both sides. Increase housing supply, especially social housing, and negotiate some sort of limitations on inward migration. To do anything else is madness.

Both are very complex things to do but that doesn't excuse not doing them. To build more housing, especially social housing, we need to change our approach. We can't rely on part V planning requirements to do the bulk of the work there anymore.

And you've rightfully pointed out that we need to negotiate with the EU to bring inward migration under control. TBH it's in the interests of the EU project going forward to do so. Otherwise it'll fall part due to very right wing parties coming to power in member states a la Holland and Italy. Our government need to be more forceful on it now with the EU, we've played the good student long enough.

DaithiMa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945124#Comment_121945124

That's exactly what was said before the recent referendums wasn't it? Yet the thoughts of 'a few posters on boards' turned out to be the thoughts of a record breaking number of people that went to the polls.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/ireland-must-opt-in-to-eu-asylum-seeker-pact-as-soon-as-possible-mcentee-1710605

If Helen is advocating that we 'must opt in asap' then I'd worry what it is exactly we are signing up for. Hopefully there's another debate with her and McDowell on this pact and how it will effect us legally.

It's actually insane that we got to vote on those mickey mouse referendums and on the really important issues like this we have someone like McEntee choosing our path.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945639#Comment_121945639

Their answer is we must surrender more of what's left of this country's sovereignty to the EU and we must do it now.

selectamatic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944764#Comment_121944764

That's straying very close to Irexit type thinking.

This notion that the EU are or will leverage against us or other small members in terms of how we deal with immigration/asylum seekers from countries outside the EU.

It was nonsense during and after Brexit in the UK and it's still nonsense now. As can be seen the by the problems the UK are still having. It's solely up to the sovereign nation itself as long as they conduct themselves within the constrains of the international treaties they may have signed up to.

The EU can have no unwanted input to our policies on such matters. Any input they have we have to willingly agree to.

The EU have far bigger fish to fry with the likes to Orbán in Hungary cosying up to Putin than what we do here with IPA's.

thomas 123

Press conference today :

McEntee says : “we have an onus” when saying we are right to take in and house so many people. Crazy stuff.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945825#Comment_121945825

I just can't see that the southern EU states who face the most immediate IPA challenges will sit back and do nothing if the wealthier northern states push the issue back to them.

Especially one which benefits from it's EU membership in the way we do, and hasn't already taken the numbers of IPA's Sweden and Denmark have.

Maybe that was used as a Brexit threat but I don't how really see how it relates to the problems the UK are having now.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945959#Comment_121945959

Its not up to us to solve the worlds problems, whether its refugee crisis, global warming or whatever. Our politicians fall over themselves to be seen as best in class, but we must solve our own problems first, I think they forgot that and forgotten who they serve.

enricoh

This farce is the gift that keeps giving, no joy or crap welfare rates elsewhere - try paddy! take a bow Roderick n Helen!

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/up-to-70pc-of-people-seeking-international-protection-in-ireland-have-also-applied-in-other-countries/a1531570222.html