When did being woke become a bad thing?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649298#Comment_120649298

It was a demonstration of how group think can influence people to agree with things.

If you saw it as a one for one comparison that's your problem Robbie.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120650467#Comment_120650467

They’re not the same type of group think are they though?

One was to deny rights and to demonise a minority and the other is to ensure equality and respect for minorities.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120650475#Comment_120650475

It's interesting that you feel the need to compare these things. I never said they were comparable but that hasn't stopped another poster from suggesting that is what I did on more than one occasion.

A reasonable number of people thanked the first post which suggested that, they were too eager to see an outrage where it didn't exist instead of scrolling up and actually reading what I had said which is a microcosm of what's wrong with "Woke" these days. An ill informed rush to judgement incited by people seemingly incapable of comprehending simple language.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120650419#Comment_120650419

I know , nor should she, but the wokesters did everything they could to try and get her to apologise, she is big enough to withstand attempts at cancellation and so didn't need to apologise to save her career , a lot of others aren't.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120650552#Comment_120650552

hmmm… she was already ludicrously wealthy and had a very successful career, but I’d say her treatment of trans people has hit her in the pocket still. Which is a good thing.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120650517#Comment_120650517

That’s hilarious, because one thing I have found is the “non-woke/asleepeople, (there is no anyonym for “the woke” as far as I can see), is that they are the ones to actually research links before posting them as they are aware that the “unwoke” are cherry pickers when it comes to arguments online, so everything presented by “the woke” has to be pretty accurate.

I’ve lost times how many times I have corrected right wingers posting lies as they never, ever own up to it. I report the posts, but apparently posting lies and untruths is not against the rules here. Anyway, these posters just ignore any corrections and either drop the point with no reference to it again, or (much less often) try to convince others they’re correct.

now, what you actually said was:

The majority of people flip flop and go with the flow of whatever bullsh1t is prevalent in society at any given time. Right now it's being woke, in Germany in the 1930's anti semitism was all the rage.

Right there you are comparing being woke to being anti-Semitic in Germany in the 1930’s so to say you never said they were comparable is a complete lie.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120650596#Comment_120650596

There we go an example of what I'm talking about with the wokesters.

She doesn't 100% follow the woke creed therefore she deserves to be punished.

What a pathetic attitude you have , wouldn't it be better for you to just live and let live and respect her right to express an opinion.That is how sensible mature people behave.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120650671#Comment_120650671

It would, if I didn’t think her opinion was dangerous. I have trans friends who absolutely have been negatively effected by her stance on trans people

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120650689#Comment_120650689

But they haven't really been negatively affected in reality as she's done nothing against transgender people.

All shes stated are men and women are biologically different and there should be be places restricted for biological women only (like Rape crisis centres etc) which is a perfectly reasonable stance.

If people are affected by common sense opinions from a person they do not know that is their own issue.

Another negative trait of the woke is to exaggerate the impact of fairly normal opinions and become unnecessarily emotive for no reason.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120650631#Comment_120650631

If you think I was comparing those two things there's not much point in continuing conversing with you.

I demonstrated how people can be coerced into supporting things, I cited two examples, those two examples were chosen because they are not comparable at all. They are ideologically contrasting situations.

Clearly the point of what I said was to contrast those two things, not compare them yet you saw fit to overlook that obvious explanation and wade in speaking in what I can only assume you felt was an authoritative manner stating that the opposite was true.

As for the rest of your stream of consciousness, a more balanced and less obviously partizan take would be to accept that some people on either side of this woke divide can offer poorly though out arguments at times, you had to go for the absolutist version that read like "all these people I disagree with are stupid and can't accept my eminence".

I appreciate your zeal, however you could benefit from slowing down a touch and giving greater consideration to your arguments going forward. Just a thought.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120650689#Comment_120650689

Out of interest, what form did the negative effects of JK Rowling's stance take on your friend exactly?

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120651318#Comment_120651318

Utter nonsense, all of it.

I demonstrated how people can be coerced into supporting things, I cited two examples, those two examples were chosen because they are not comparable at all. They are ideologically contrasting situations.

But you did compare them, “Right now it's being woke, in Germany in the 1930's anti semitism was all the rage” There was no clear explanation in your original post that you were describing how people can be coerced into things.

Maybe next time, use less words and explain a little clearer. It’s a nice day, and your essays are hard to follow.

The whole point about people being “woke” is that people are becoming aware of injustices and won’t put up with it anymore and are doing something about it, whether that’s boycotting terfs like JKR, or joining in the BLM movement, or recognising that cultural appropriation is wrong.

That’s not a genie that will go back in the bottle. Unlike anti-semitism in 1930’s Germany, being “Woke” is a net positive as it seeks to protect those that are “different”, and only persecute negative opinions of those who cannot help who they are (black/gay/trans/disabled etc)

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120651369#Comment_120651369

If you have trouble following relatively short posts that's you're problem.

If you can't understand the difference between comparing and contrasting again, that's your problem.

What you're failing to understand is that "Woke" people consistently misrepresent people and condemn them without thought. You've done the same to me in this thread, you can't understand what I'm saying (because the weather is nice seemingly) therefore I should be subject to your wrath.

You're entitled to not attempt to understand things if you wish, problems arise when you disregard your own ignorance and then take issue with people for simple concepts you as an adult (I'm assuming you are an adult) who has chosen to engage in a conversation /debate should be conversant with.

You don't get to say "I don't understand what you're saying so you must be wrong".

Flaneur OBrien

“Wrath”

rofl

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120651444#Comment_120651444

All the best.

EmmetSpiceland

It’s weird how some lads will laud a rabid TERF who calls for “safe spaces” for women, by excluding trans woman, as a hero but they’d lose their sh1t, or scoff, if a hardline feminist suggested a space without men (these people believe trans women are men).

There’s a lot of hypocrisy, or confusion, going on. The same lads will bang on about #notallmen when a woman is attacked but fully back someone like JK Rowling when she implies that all men are rapists (again, these guys believe trans women are men) looking to prey on women at any moment.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120651468#Comment_120651468

So what you have said if another woman other than JK Rowling said women's dressing rooms, rape crisis centre etc should be for women and not men you somehow think that men would somehow not support that opinion, despite supporting that exact same opinion when JK Rowling expresses it?

JK Rowling has never said all transmen are rapists once again making up nonsense to align with your view.

When people resort to complete lies to back up their argument (as you have just done) it means they don't have a valid point.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120651519#Comment_120651519

All men. And implied not said. Trans men aren’t “specifically” mentioned but I, personally, would include them.

I guess it would depend on whether you consider them men. Would be very odd if you didn’t believe a trans woman was a woman but believed a trans man was a man. But, if I’m honest, I wouldn’t be surprised with the levels of hypocritical gymnastics some lads get into to justify their “position”.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120625523#Comment_120625523

Well said girl and thank you.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120650689#Comment_120650689

I don’t believe you. You’re coming across as someone who grossly exaggerates, and takes offence and sees negativity in even the most benign of “offences.”

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120651987#Comment_120651987

Funnily enough at the start of the 1970s being gay might have meant you were sent to a mental institution.

in 1973....... the American Psychiatric Association made history by issuing a resolution stating that homosexuality was not a mental illness or sickness.

https://www.hrc.org/news/flashbackfriday-today-in-1973-the-apa-removed-homosexuality-from-list-of-me

Sorry what was your point though oh right you were trying to use woke as insult and for **** and giggles thought its fun to punch down on people with (checks wiki.......)

"Psychiatric hospitals, also known as mental health hospitals, behavioral health hospitals, are hospitals or wards specializing in the treatment of severe mental disorders, such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, eating disorders, dissociative identity disorder, major depressive disorder and many others"

Oh nice classy post VDG.

Being woke is bad when your opinion on everything is not back up by your actions.

That and you having an option and being outraged by anyone else not agreeing with you.

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649521#Comment_120649521

Sounds like your making up excuses for racism. Most people are not racist but the minority that are should never be allowed to get away with it.

play4fun1

when woke started editing books

when woke started "cancaling" people/games/movies/music

.Donegal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655307#Comment_120655307

Conservatives have been doing that since time began and still are. Are they woke too?

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655157#Comment_120655157

Why are you getting angry? Are people not allowed voice their opinion anymore?

If somebody acts like racism is just human nature I've every right to say that this is a terrible attitude to have.

timetogo1

Posted in error

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655601#Comment_120655601

Your post is nonsense. Wokester? Wokies? Do you really think these words belong in an adult conversation?

If you want a definition of racism you can check a dictionary or maybe try using google. Do you always make ridiculous presumptuous about people?

The poster i quoted seems to think that displaying racism is being human when in fact displaying racism is wrong

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654798#Comment_120654798

That's the thing. The anti slavers would have been described as woke and anti science (If the term woke existed back then). The same with suffragettes, people campaigning for equal pay for women, people campaigning for gay rights etc...

History has never been kind to the people who opposed the "woke" people.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655307#Comment_120655307

Nobody woke did this. Big business and corporations did to make their out dated media more palatable for a modern audience and sell more.

But as always it's easy to deflect the blame to the 'woke' because the morons and dumb dumbs will fall for it and aim their ire there.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656742#Comment_120656742

Would you like to outline big social movements that failed?

The only ones I can think of were all right wing. In Ireland it's stuff like being anti abortion, anti divorce, criminalizing gay people, not allowing unmarried women to open bank accounts without a man cosigning, forcing women to quit jobs when they got married etc...

Modern "woke" people look for equal rights for lgbtq+ people, women, minorities etc. They don't want to see discrimination based on unchangeable characteristics such as sex, gender, race, sexual orientation etc.

Being anti: racist, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, discrimination... is of course not a bad thing.

Calling an older, more conservative person a nazi/fascist cu*t and threatening them with violence if they simply question, is what the bad thing is. That's authoritarian and deranged behaviour.

My understanding of woke is that it is over-the-top political correctness and virtue-signalling, to the point of absurdity/insanity.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656698#Comment_120656698

What you're saying suggests that there is some central command for "Woke".

Woke is not a tangible entity, yes companies make decisions for commercial reasons but those decisions are influenced by outside forces such as changing perceptions and attitudes and can often the influenced by organised groups looking to enforce their beliefs on others.

Rewriting books is very much influenced by the more hardline elements of "Woke" that want to erase anything they disagree with. The backlash to rewriting books suggests that the public at large doesn't support these change which is a result of lobby groups pressuring companies to comply with their dogma.

Your use of ad hominems like "morons and dumb dumbs" illustrates the problems with woke ideology. Anyone who isn't completely on board with you is fair game for any type of abuse you care to dole out. It's pathetic childish behaviour.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657227#Comment_120657227

No I never said that, it's what right wing deflectors like pretend there is and their dumb dumb followers latch on to. Also woke is just being aware of social injustice and testing each other with respect. If you think it's about censorship then you are drinking the right wing coolade.

Also do you really think these massive corporations would be making these changes for altruistic reasons or for cold hard cash reasons?

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657227#Comment_120657227

What you're saying suggests that there is some central command for "Woke".

Woke is not a tangible entity, 

Ok woke is not a tangible entity got it.

Rewriting books is very much influenced by the more hardline elements of "Woke"

not tangible but yet someone at fault and directing, got it.

Your use of ad hominems like "morons and dumb dumbs" illustrates the problems with woke ideology. Anyone who isn't completely on board with you is fair game for any type of abuse you care to dole out. It's pathetic childish behaviour.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Did you manage to type that bit with a straight face nullzero?

I mean most of this thread is people using woke as an insult for whatever brain fart they have had lately.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657244#Comment_120657244

You talk about respect and continue to refer to people as dumb dumbs. Strange.

I never said I thought corporations made changes to books for altruistic reasons, obviously it's being done for commercial reasons, just like when they pepper their western offices with pride flags in June but forget to do he same in the middle east.

I also never mentioned the word censorship either, not sure where you're getting that from tbh. As for coolaid, yo can keep your Americanisms for the dumb dumbs.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657284#Comment_120657284

Not tangible isamuch as there is some sort of central hub of woke. Woke groups do exist though but not as a representative body of all woke people.

Always playing the man instead of the ball Robbie. Hope you're having a pleasant day.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657298#Comment_120657298

I mean you literally made the quoted post about me the poster rather than anything I posted while talking about playing the man.

😘

I'm not sure anymore what to call it hypocrisy, irony.................

🤣🤣🤣🤣

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657317#Comment_120657317

You chose to interject in an exchange between me and other poster.

I'm entitled to respond to you when you quote me.

You have a habit of misrepresenting my posts, you've already done so on this thread previously.

If the understanding of simple concepts consistently eludes you perhaps your commentary isn't as incisive as you believe it to be.

RobbieTheRobber

So woke people are bad because "Anyone who isn't completely on board with you is fair game for any type of abuse you care to dole out"

Must say I'm a bit confused about who is woke and who isn't now going on the last few posts.

🤣🤣

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656920#Comment_120656920

Critical race theory is a red herring. It's a name for something that's studied in academia. The idea that there's still structural legacies from slavery. If I was to put it into Irish terms I could ask if there's a legacy of British rule on the island of Ireland and the answer would be yes. We could then ask what the effects are and how to minimize them.

In the US however we see massive pushback. I can only assume because the dominant force is still in power. I can understand that Irish people are more interested in studying the legacy of British colonialism than english people or unionists are, I can also see why black people in the US have more interests in studying the legacy of slavery.

As for trans people...Every argument i see is nearly a carbon copy of the arguments I saw during the 80's and 90's. Especially all the stuff about "grooming" kids.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656965#Comment_120656965

Threatening violence is wrong. I'd disagree with calling someone racist. That all depends on if they've actually said something racist. :D

Let's face it, there's plenty of racists who say racist things. And plenty of times they do it by "Just asking questions".

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657326#Comment_120657326

Imagine being an athlete that was so hellbent on winning that they transitioned to a completely different sex by undergoing major surgery.

You know of have to think about how stupid the argument is before you spout it.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657285#Comment_120657285

I've respect for people when they are being called doubt for things they can't control like race, gender, sex etc.

If you're a dumb dumb and don't have any mental disabilities then thats their choice. Are you seriously advocating tolerance for pants on head stupidity?

That's not what I'm talking about though, @Grayson - nor did I say anything to contradict it. I'm talking about e.g. "Do we have the resources to handle mass migration?", "Is it not risky to treat children with puberty blockers?" These aren't unfair, bad faith questions.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657450#Comment_120657450

That post isn't flowing the way I'm assuming you intended.

Pants on head stupidity might be subjective to some as in what qualifies as such.

Strange that you have empathy for every except those you disagree with.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120650689#Comment_120650689

How is somebody's opinion dangerous like you claim? Because you don't like it and therefore it must be silenced?

Surely the reems of abuse and death threats she got are far more dangerous no? Ah yeah, that's deserved because she needs to be silenced.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657531#Comment_120657531

Do you really need it explained to you how someone with a big voice like JKR emboldens bullies and makes it seem like intimidating trans individuals has been permitted? Or how about trans teenagers questioning themselves that once looked up to JKR, only to be told she’s sorry for their gender dysmorphia, but they’re not trans? Even though they themselves suspect they are.

She doesn’t deserve death threats, no one does and anyone found guilty of it should be punished. As for the abuse? I presume you mean verbal/written? Most of the “abuse” I have seen has been people strongly disagreeing and reacting to JKR.

Mermaids (the teenage trans charity) had to put out a statement which included,

We are aware through our work with families that there have been cases of self-harm and even attempted suicide following J.K.Rowling’s statements and the public response on social media and in the press. Surely this must cause us all to pause and question the way young trans lives are being debated in public. 

source: https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/a-call-to-j-k-rowling/

Thats on her and her opinion, which is why I say it’s dangerous.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657531#Comment_120657531

It normalises discrimination and dehumanising of trans people which leads to normalising violence against trans people or mental health issues within that community. Hence dangerous, especially coming from someone that has such a massive reach on multiple media platforms.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657449#Comment_120657449

I see a lot online about how drag queen story hour is grooming kids. Or that people are trying to insert trans into sex and relationship guidance for teens because they're grooming them.

Back in the 90's I remember the same being said about gay people. Homophobes said that teens shouldn't be told it's ok if your gay or straight because it encouraged kids to be gay and the people who wanted it were grooming. And that idea seems ridiculous to us now. Like we could turn a straight teen gay or a gay teen straight simply by letting them know that it's ok to be what ever.

When it comes to the Olympics, I think individual sports orgs should make their rules. And it should be based on medical evidence. I can also see there being different rules between amateur and professional/high level. There's no reason why a womens park run group needs the same levels as the olympics. But once again, it should be up to the individual sports.