When did being woke become a bad thing?

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627237#Comment_120627237

You are joking right. Thge world is now choc full of people searching for their next opportunity to be offended on behalf of someone else.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627237#Comment_120627237

Most adults are aware of injustice and discrimination. Genuine incidents of injustice and discrimination need to be called out and condemned every time they are observed.

Where the problem arises is when mostly well meaning people think they spot an instance of injustice or discrimination but in fact no such occurrence has taken place. Then creating a whole stinking row and demanding that people be sacked from their positions and deplatformed etc.

The JK Rowling debacle is an example, how utterly ridiculous is that.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627426#Comment_120627426

Indeed- it becomes a witch hunt and we’ve seen too many of those over the past few years- oh, someone has a different opinion to mine- they must be evil- shoot them now!!!

Saying that, Graham Lenihan doesn’t do himself many favours either in the way he goes about his approach to transgenderism - sometimes it’s just better to wait on common sense to prevail rather than take on the trolls.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627346#Comment_120627346

It depends though. A lot of sports had the criteria that the athlete had to be on hormones for a couple of years and have a minimum amount of estrogen in their system. Then statewide there was a blanket ban.

I think it should be up to the sport to determine what the inclusive policy is, not a complete ban.

monseiur

What does the phrase 'Freedom of Speech' really mean in Ireland in 2023 ? Who decides what opinions we are allowed to express publicly ? Is the antics of the cancel culture brigade not a form of censorship ? Are we becoming slaves to an uneducated, narrow minded, bigoted mob who's aim is to brainwash the free thinking masses ?......a modern day version of the Spanish Inquisition.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120625730#Comment_120625730

Don’t be using your common sense here 😂

SlowChris

Being woke is just pretending you care to feel good about yourself.

niallpatrick

Honestly I don't even know what 'woke' means, all I know is one morning I woke up things had changed that quickly in the 6 counties I didn't care any more. I can't change anyones perspective and nobody is going to re-arrange how they act feel whatever they feel is their right on my behalf. I'm more calm and sedate somewhat, still looking for inner peace but I'll get there.

Drumpot

I still don’t fully understand the phrase. Even after googling and reading stuff here. It does seem like a pejorative insult to call somebody woke but is there a chance that it has different meanings to different people?

Like I think of what woke is (when it’s being used as an insult) is a person that is effectively an obnoxiously self absorbed type personality who attacks anybody who doesn’t share their exact interpretation of something or some sort of cause they feel strongly about.

Usually they have a self righteous sense of authority on a topic that on one level looks moral and just, but they are taking a quite dogmatic approach to discussing it that doesn’t encourage discussion, just forcing people into complying or agreeing with how they see things or racist or sexist or homophobic or something derogatory…

On a side note, there’s plenty of people examples of people who lack the capacity for civil discussion that’s nothing to do with woke. The politics forum and the ukraine/Russia thread is a prime example. Try asking a question or making a stately that isn’t 100% full on western media pro ukraine stance and you will get the rabble rousing “putinbot” insinuation.

It’s not that there arent people who are trolls and putinbots, it’s that there is no safe forum to discuss the war objectively without insult. When I hear the term “wole” I think it’s like that sort of discussion whereby there is no discussion only somebody “educating you” in an extremely obnoxious manner, on why you are so wrong and then a bunch of other morons piling in to make you look like you are practically running the Russian war room.

They can only engage in this way, therefore they learn nothing and people just avoid them (which reinforces their sentiments- “if they have nothing to say I’m clearly right”). I’ve no doubt some of them will be chomping at the bit to have a go at me personally , that’s usually what they do, attack the poster instead of what’s said , it’s too satisfying to discredit somebody’s view with something they said another time that supposedly shows their entire views and mentality is flawed.

Ive said it before, the best posts I have done are ones I haven’t posted. Many people on boards simply don’t know how to engage respectfully. I have my moments when I have engaged in this act so don’t speak from an ivory tower, but I have tried to be better and as I said, not post when I think it might not be helpful for progressive debate.

Rothko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627426#Comment_120627426

The part I'd disagree with is when you say that they mean well. They don't. They just like to tear other people down so they can feel good about themselves. You see it on here all the time.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627779#Comment_120627779

They really don't know how alike they are, like a mirror image of each other and proof of the horseshoe theory.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627716#Comment_120627716

I try to pretend to myself that it’s well meaning but a bit dim. A lot of people are carrying a lot of internalised fury fuelled by disappointment in life, mostly.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627409#Comment_120627409

I'm aware that some people would do that. Kinda like the same as people demonizing 'wokeness '

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627426#Comment_120627426

Most are, and are therefore 'woke '

There is a massive push against 'woke' trying to make it into something bad. It's not. As you admit yourself

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627469#Comment_120627469

Graham is an example of what happens when you spend far too much time in solitary confinement isolated from the outside world and on SM (in particular Twitter) and you forget that it’s really just a microcosm of humanity that you encounter there.

In reality a very small amount of people (in the vast scheme of things) tweeting obsessively in support of the trans ideology, are in effect trolling Linehan and Rowling constantly.

Katy Montgomerie, who’s on the other side of the argument, tweets up to 100 times a day on the subject of trans rights, and appears totally obsessed too.

tayto lover

Ah I thought it was about saying 'Yah' all the time like you were living in Oklahoma.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627884#Comment_120627884

I must not be explaining myself properly. For me, “woke” is confined to the people who see injustice and discrimination where none exists. And yes that’s bad, very bad.

For one thing you have the “little boy who called wolf” aspect of it. When you keep finding offence and outrage and wrongdoing around every corner where none exists and constantly complain that this that and the other is “facsim” and this person is “Nazi” and so is he.. then in the end everyone stops listening and then the real Nazis can just carry on ignored.

So you are diluting out of existence what fascism actually is and allowing actual Nazis to blend into the wallpaper.

The person who was the manager of the Starbucks franchise is Southampton UK who was caught on camera attacking an older lady who quite understandably and accidentally misgendered an employee, and then attacked her husband breaking his phone, has been sacked and is going to struggle badly to get another job. They had been led to believe that if they were being offended that they had a right to actually physically and verbally abuse whomever it was they felt was offending them.

You can’t possibly think that that’s a good thing?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12100471/ALISON-BOSHOFF-John-Cleese-forced-cut-Life-Brian-scene-men-having-babies-new-show.html

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627884#Comment_120627884

It is something bad…

you can be socially aware but reasonable and fair and open minded and willing to listen and engage … reasonable and fair and not traits of woke people. That is something bad….

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627982#Comment_120627982

Well I hope that person has learned a valuable lesson- what may appear to be correct behaviour on a social media site, is not acceptable in real life.

I reckon they’ve learned all their values and ways of behaving from a very select few in their short life to date, and likely from a very similar thinking “woke” group - I was actually aghast when I saw the video- honestly didn’t think people would behave that way as employees in a cafe

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627911#Comment_120627911

Slight difference in the names mentioned though, Katy Montgomerie is a trans woman so has actual skin in the game.

I know a couple of trans people it can be a seriously tough oul life for them. The imo manufactured stoking of hatred for them is really sad to see.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628037#Comment_120628037

Every biological woman and her loved ones has “skin in the game”. So unless you don’t have a female that you cherish, everyone has skin in the game.

Demonique

I'm a bio woman and I dont have skin in the game

Star Bingo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627884#Comment_120627884

When were you born anyway wasn’t yesterday was it?

/naw you signed up some days ago my bad.

mod

warning - uncivil

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627982#Comment_120627982

Woke is being awake to social injustices and discrimination. That's what it is. it's nothing to do with seeing something that doesnt exist. To say it is, is turning into something it's not.

Please dont suggest that I see physically attacking anyone as a good thing, this is more of twisting and turning things to make people appear 'bad' when there is no truth in it

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628011#Comment_120628011

yes you can and yes it is.

Some people are attempting to twist and turn the definition of woke into something bad. It isnt.

growleaves

'Political correctness' and 'woke' are slang terms - but basically what they refer to when used by most people are radically political liberal principles or rules enforced in a particularly ham-handed, too-logical or vindictive way or without any regard for the negative consequences that can result.

By 'too logical' I mean that e.g. the underlying liberal belief in non-discrimination is taken to be 100% true so that the response to an explicit Islamic-motivated terrorist attack would be to start patting down people selected at random at airports, on the basis that anyone - a 95 year old grandmother, for instance - could be planning an attack. (Example taken from real life)

This invites ridicule from people with a common-sensical approach to life.

To break this one aspect down explicitly:

1. Human behaviour is not random. ('Randomness' is an abstract concept, useful as a mathematical tool, but with no 'reality' in real life as Einstein saw)
2. Liberal principles require that we treat things and people randomly, to 'not discriminate'
3. Radical political liberals - the 'woke' - take this imperative at face value, enforce it consistently and logically. These people create chaos and face personal criticism and ridicule. Then they claim the people doing the ridiculing are racist/right-wing/ill-motivated.

If all that wasn't confusing enough, more recently radical political liberals require that we treat white Europeans as uniquely guilty or in the wrong, both when they are in the wrong and aren't. This is closer to Leninist demagoguery in my opinion but in this case proletariat=black/brown (and sometimes women and trans), bourgeois=whites, especially men.

Here's another example:

Recently a pregnant woman had her rental bicycle stolen by a gang of teen thieves in NYC. As the woman was white and the thieves were black the 'narrative' that she was a 'Karen' (a woman needlessly bothering/accusing an innocent black man) spread on the internet and she received threats/hatred from strangers. It later turned out that were stealing her bicycle, not the other way around.

Use your common sense: would a pregnant woman start a fight with a street gang by attempting to steal from them?

Also it seems not to occur to people to not take sides and just wait for information. The desire to 'pick a side' seems to be very strong with 'the woke', but also sometimes with people who are too caught up in opposing wokeness.

Consistent application of 'woke' ideology is preceded by abandoning one's spontaneous knowledge of life, human nature, probability etc. as randomness is taken to be fairness, or in the case of 'equity' white guilt is taken to be fairness.

vafankillar

it really is just over the top these days, heard lads in the pub getting offended cos sky news said the city of 'londonderry' while reporting the local elections in northern ireland. snowflake stuff. can't even say the name of a city these days apparently

growleaves

Political correctness, over time, destroys truthfulness and integrity as people are required to tell lies about any aspect of human nature or life that seems to contradict liberal principles.

Also everything is turned into a political/bureaucratic attitude, no matter how ugly and irritating this is.

If you don't want to see art, literature, sport, scholarship, or any other human activity relentlessly politicised some double-talking windbag will along to tell you "These things have always been politicised..blah blah blah" and then proceed to insert controversial politics at the centre of whatever it is you value.

aero2k

This article is from 2016 but does give some history of the usage of the term - I haven't followed this stuff for years so I can't speak to the accuracy:

https://splinternews.com/how-woke-went-from-black-activist-watchword-to-teen-int-1793853989

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627345#Comment_120627345

It’s about proportionality and reflecting reality , rather than ask me why this bothers me , a more pertinent question is why the advertisers do it ?

nachouser

Being woke or anti-woke or whatever just isn't a thing for about 99% of the population.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627634#Comment_120627634

Compassion narcissism

The Phantom Jipper

@tesla_newbie

Apologies, reply feature doesn't seem to be working for me.

Realism has never been the first thing that comes to mind when I watch an ad, by their nature they're not meant to be Ken Loach style depictions of working class life. My theory is that they're trying to be inclusive to maximise profits because they want as broad a base of customers as possible. What's your theory?

I guess the main thing I'd like to know is that even if we assume mixed race couples are over-represented in ads, why is that a bad thing? I guess if it's over-represented, you could say ads are normalising it but that would only be an issue if you thought it was bad and abnormal to begin with?

Guildenstern

Woke is just an attempt by the political left to gain traction because they repeatedly can't get power through democratic means. Jumping on every cause imaginable, the latest being this trans nonsense although the longer that goes on, the more it backfires.

Architects of cancel culture and lapped up by a gullible media. Meanwhile the majority think otherwise.

In a decade will it be case of 'sure, weren't we all woke, back in the day?'.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628424#Comment_120628424

Why would those kind of portrayals increase profits ?, I’d imagine a lot of black couples find the adds unrealistic in their portrayals as well?, I doubt seeing mixed race couples inspires black people to spend anymore than if the couples were black

BTW , if the couples in the adds were black, that wouldn’t be in anyway unrealistic

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628540#Comment_120628540

Absolutely, if you listen to many of the arguments of the woke left , they would perform pitifully if placed on an election manifesto, history has shown us why these kind of totalitarian minded ideas have to be enforced on populations by force, the vast majority of people would never voluntarily vote for them

The Phantom Jipper

@tesla_newbie

I'd imagine they want to show people of all shapes, colours and sizes enjoying the product.

To go back to my question, what's your theory on why advertisers do this? And how does it feed into the "woke agenda"?

Star Bingo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628591#Comment_120628591

Not forgetting europeans are forbidden from appearing in many African adverts. Most recently Nigerian, curious timing considering the diaspora putiing their root down now and granted there’s likely not much of a market for European citizens there anyway so a myriad of reasons... burgeoning market potential / attempts to pacify a certain crowd, one constant though at the core of advertising is the subliminal which has surpassed that here in becoming painfully transparent.

I don’t know what they take us for at this stage but allow yourself be subjected to it enough and you may well believe that you’re it. Very important to know when the joke is on us a very profound; indeed serious not so funny for us joke with profound repercussions on a peoples allowing themselves to be taken for granted. I always viewed Ireland as that vulnerable toddler on the world map in terms of scale, shape and naivety and I do not approve of the door being left ajar for outside interference to occur

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628145#Comment_120628145

Woke people have turned it into something bad, they certainly didn’t need help.. 👀

.Donegal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628195#Comment_120628195

That has been an issue long before the internet even existed and there’s elements on both sides who don’t like when it’s called Derry or Lderry. The bbc in the North use both interchangeably. The fact that you think it’s a new phenomenon brought on by wokeness just proves how little you actually know about it. Practically everyone in Derry city calls it Derry apart from a tiny minority in the waterside. See how snowflakey they are if you say that up there to them.

Hodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627305#Comment_120627305

" the woke don’t want reasonable open and fair debate…about anything… shout and run are their tactics…

Jordan Peterson has been ganged up on by woke people on tv shows and they’ve ALL ended up making fools of themselves, trying to shout over him, interrupting, misrepresenting him "

A good example of this is events that took place this past saturday, recently there was a woman sexually assaulted in Waterford.

https://www.wlrfm.com/news/appeal-for-witnesses-following-sexual-assault-investigation-in-waterford-304287

This past saturday there was a rally to highlight sexual assaults, one of the speakers was from the Irish freedom party.

People before profit being woke turned to counter protest and chanted " refugees welcome " and shouted down a woman speaking about sexual assault, the speaker at the rally didn,t mention " refugees " neither did any of the banners or placards, by turning up to counter protest chanting " refugees welcome " misrepresents and Implies the people holding the rally had a problem with refugees, plenty of videos up online showing what took place.

https://www.tiktok.com/@dimpledempsy/video/7235298144311954715

https://www.tiktok.com/@dimpledempsy/video/7235361558342176026

In this third video you can see the placards clear as day, no mention of " refugees " on any on the placards .

https://www.tiktok.com/@dimpledempsy/video/7235657444733488411

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628810#Comment_120628810

Maybe they want to lose money as tax write off? As a lot of lads on here are fond of screaming “go WOKE(all caps), go broke!!!!”, so they can’t be doing it to make money, right?

Although, the same lads will also bang on about companies being ‘all inclusive chasing the WOKE(all caps) dollar!!!!’, so it’s hard to know which it is.

Strumms

Peterson remains calm, eloquent, quiet, listening, then destroys them with well spoken and accurate words, saw a lady the other day absolutely losing her **** as he enabled clear and confident and concise and irrefutable counter arguments against her, he was so relaxed but focused and she was interrupting constantly and loosing her shît it was delightful and devastating for her to be receiving it. He facilitated her turn to talk but refused steadfast to let her frustrated self talk over him,, his answers like machine gun fire, hitting their target and she just was a mess by the end. He’s unfailingly polite, genuine, fair, confident and courteous with the manner in which he debates , which absolutely riles the woke as they enjoy provoking emotive reactions like all trolls do and they are certainly that, in spades, but he’s also too clever, too fair, too caring, too intelligent and too courageous for them……

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628810#Comment_120628810

so why not just show couples where both male and female are both black?, I’d say most black people would find that more accurately reflective of reality?

The Phantom Jipper

Sorry to be repetitive but can you answer the question?

You've gone out of your way to hold up an oversupply of mixed race couples in ads as your best example of wokeness, but can't explain how it's woke, what the purpose of it is, and why it's a bad thing if indeed it is woke.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629257#Comment_120629257

it’s not a reflection of reality and surely that counts for something?

understand that having black couples on tv adds is not unrealistic, it’s to be expected yet from watching adds , most black guys marry a white woman , I’d be confident most black folks find it very odd

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628838#Comment_120628838

Stop. The opposite (who I can only imagine don't care about injustice or discrimination) have twisted and changed the definition, attempting to paint decent democratic people into something crazy.

Woke is good. I would prefer woke people over ignorant people anyday.

The Phantom Jipper

@tesla_newbie

Well...no actually it doesn't count for anything. The topic is wokeness, not "people in ads that may or may not align with real world demographics". I'm still not seeing how it's woke, and how it would be a bad thing worth caring about even if it was.

Much of the talk here has been about the woke brigade being thin skinned busybodies eager to take offence at trivial things and yet you're seemingly here with the abacus out comparing how many black people you're seeing on tv versus how many are in the census...

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629407#Comment_120629407

Hey you’ve shown yourself eager to tease out the points I raised, I’ve been honest in my replies

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629380#Comment_120629380

Woke people ferment in the greatest of ignorance sadly…. Nothing good about them, or their ignorant schtick… disingenuous dilapidated mindsets unfortunately … the media the world is bored of them and have kicked back… their time in the sun is fading, they’ve been found out, there is a global backlash 🤷‍♂️😉

they’ve had their time and embarrassed themselves..they can sit down in years to come and tell their grandkids about how they…. Had about 6 seconds of notoriety…i imagine the reaction will be along the lines of….