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When did being woke become a bad thing?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    They really don't know how alike they are, like a mirror image of each other and proof of the horseshoe theory.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    I try to pretend to myself that it’s well meaning but a bit dim. A lot of people are carrying a lot of internalised fury fuelled by disappointment in life, mostly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    I'm aware that some people would do that. Kinda like the same as people demonizing 'wokeness '



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Most are, and are therefore 'woke '

    There is a massive push against 'woke' trying to make it into something bad. It's not. As you admit yourself



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    Graham is an example of what happens when you spend far too much time in solitary confinement isolated from the outside world and on SM (in particular Twitter) and you forget that it’s really just a microcosm of humanity that you encounter there.

    In reality a very small amount of people (in the vast scheme of things) tweeting obsessively in support of the trans ideology, are in effect trolling Linehan and Rowling constantly.

    Katy Montgomerie, who’s on the other side of the argument, tweets up to 100 times a day on the subject of trans rights, and appears totally obsessed too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 51,846 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Ah I thought it was about saying 'Yah' all the time like you were living in Oklahoma.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    I must not be explaining myself properly. For me, “woke” is confined to the people who see injustice and discrimination where none exists. And yes that’s bad, very bad.

    For one thing you have the “little boy who called wolf” aspect of it. When you keep finding offence and outrage and wrongdoing around every corner where none exists and constantly complain that this that and the other is “facsim” and this person is “Nazi” and so is he.. then in the end everyone stops listening and then the real Nazis can just carry on ignored.

    So you are diluting out of existence what fascism actually is and allowing actual Nazis to blend into the wallpaper.

    The person who was the manager of the Starbucks franchise is Southampton UK who was caught on camera attacking an older lady who quite understandably and accidentally misgendered an employee, and then attacked her husband breaking his phone, has been sacked and is going to struggle badly to get another job. They had been led to believe that if they were being offended that they had a right to actually physically and verbally abuse whomever it was they felt was offending them.

    You can’t possibly think that that’s a good thing?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12100471/ALISON-BOSHOFF-John-Cleese-forced-cut-Life-Brian-scene-men-having-babies-new-show.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,340 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    It is something bad…

    you can be socially aware but reasonable and fair and open minded and willing to listen and engage … reasonable and fair and not traits of woke people. That is something bad….



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Well I hope that person has learned a valuable lesson- what may appear to be correct behaviour on a social media site, is not acceptable in real life.

    I reckon they’ve learned all their values and ways of behaving from a very select few in their short life to date, and likely from a very similar thinking “woke” group - I was actually aghast when I saw the video- honestly didn’t think people would behave that way as employees in a cafe



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,732 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Slight difference in the names mentioned though, Katy Montgomerie is a trans woman so has actual skin in the game.

    I know a couple of trans people it can be a seriously tough oul life for them. The imo manufactured stoking of hatred for them is really sad to see.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    Every biological woman and her loved ones has “skin in the game”. So unless you don’t have a female that you cherish, everyone has skin in the game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭Demonique


    I'm a bio woman and I dont have skin in the game



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,366 ✭✭✭Star Bingo


    When were you born anyway wasn’t yesterday was it?

    /naw you signed up some days ago my bad.

    mod

    warning - uncivil

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Woke is being awake to social injustices and discrimination. That's what it is. it's nothing to do with seeing something that doesnt exist. To say it is, is turning into something it's not.

    Please dont suggest that I see physically attacking anyone as a good thing, this is more of twisting and turning things to make people appear 'bad' when there is no truth in it



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    yes you can and yes it is.

    Some people are attempting to twist and turn the definition of woke into something bad. It isnt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'Political correctness' and 'woke' are slang terms - but basically what they refer to when used by most people are radically political liberal principles or rules enforced in a particularly ham-handed, too-logical or vindictive way or without any regard for the negative consequences that can result.

    By 'too logical' I mean that e.g. the underlying liberal belief in non-discrimination is taken to be 100% true so that the response to an explicit Islamic-motivated terrorist attack would be to start patting down people selected at random at airports, on the basis that anyone - a 95 year old grandmother, for instance - could be planning an attack. (Example taken from real life)

    This invites ridicule from people with a common-sensical approach to life.

    To break this one aspect down explicitly:

    1. Human behaviour is not random. ('Randomness' is an abstract concept, useful as a mathematical tool, but with no 'reality' in real life as Einstein saw)
    2. Liberal principles require that we treat things and people randomly, to 'not discriminate'
    3. Radical political liberals - the 'woke' - take this imperative at face value, enforce it consistently and logically. These people create chaos and face personal criticism and ridicule. Then they claim the people doing the ridiculing are racist/right-wing/ill-motivated.

    If all that wasn't confusing enough, more recently radical political liberals require that we treat white Europeans as uniquely guilty or in the wrong, both when they are in the wrong and aren't. This is closer to Leninist demagoguery in my opinion but in this case proletariat=black/brown (and sometimes women and trans), bourgeois=whites, especially men.

    Here's another example:

    Recently a pregnant woman had her rental bicycle stolen by a gang of teen thieves in NYC. As the woman was white and the thieves were black the 'narrative' that she was a 'Karen' (a woman needlessly bothering/accusing an innocent black man) spread on the internet and she received threats/hatred from strangers. It later turned out that were stealing her bicycle, not the other way around.

    Use your common sense: would a pregnant woman start a fight with a street gang by attempting to steal from them?

    Also it seems not to occur to people to not take sides and just wait for information. The desire to 'pick a side' seems to be very strong with 'the woke', but also sometimes with people who are too caught up in opposing wokeness.

    Consistent application of 'woke' ideology is preceded by abandoning one's spontaneous knowledge of life, human nature, probability etc. as randomness is taken to be fairness, or in the case of 'equity' white guilt is taken to be fairness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭vafankillar


    it really is just over the top these days, heard lads in the pub getting offended cos sky news said the city of 'londonderry' while reporting the local elections in northern ireland. snowflake stuff. can't even say the name of a city these days apparently



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Political correctness, over time, destroys truthfulness and integrity as people are required to tell lies about any aspect of human nature or life that seems to contradict liberal principles.

    Also everything is turned into a political/bureaucratic attitude, no matter how ugly and irritating this is.

    If you don't want to see art, literature, sport, scholarship, or any other human activity relentlessly politicised some double-talking windbag will along to tell you "These things have always been politicised..blah blah blah" and then proceed to insert controversial politics at the centre of whatever it is you value.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭aero2k


    This article is from 2016 but does give some history of the usage of the term - I haven't followed this stuff for years so I can't speak to the accuracy:




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    It’s about proportionality and reflecting reality , rather than ask me why this bothers me , a more pertinent question is why the advertisers do it ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭nachouser


    Being woke or anti-woke or whatever just isn't a thing for about 99% of the population.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie




  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭The Phantom Jipper


    @tesla_newbie

    Apologies, reply feature doesn't seem to be working for me.

    Realism has never been the first thing that comes to mind when I watch an ad, by their nature they're not meant to be Ken Loach style depictions of working class life. My theory is that they're trying to be inclusive to maximise profits because they want as broad a base of customers as possible. What's your theory?

    I guess the main thing I'd like to know is that even if we assume mixed race couples are over-represented in ads, why is that a bad thing? I guess if it's over-represented, you could say ads are normalising it but that would only be an issue if you thought it was bad and abnormal to begin with?



  • Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭Guildenstern


    Woke is just an attempt by the political left to gain traction because they repeatedly can't get power through democratic means. Jumping on every cause imaginable, the latest being this trans nonsense although the longer that goes on, the more it backfires.

    Architects of cancel culture and lapped up by a gullible media. Meanwhile the majority think otherwise.

    In a decade will it be case of 'sure, weren't we all woke, back in the day?'.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Why would those kind of portrayals increase profits ?, I’d imagine a lot of black couples find the adds unrealistic in their portrayals as well?, I doubt seeing mixed race couples inspires black people to spend anymore than if the couples were black

    BTW , if the couples in the adds were black, that wouldn’t be in anyway unrealistic



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Absolutely, if you listen to many of the arguments of the woke left , they would perform pitifully if placed on an election manifesto, history has shown us why these kind of totalitarian minded ideas have to be enforced on populations by force, the vast majority of people would never voluntarily vote for them



  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭The Phantom Jipper


    @tesla_newbie

    I'd imagine they want to show people of all shapes, colours and sizes enjoying the product.

    To go back to my question, what's your theory on why advertisers do this? And how does it feed into the "woke agenda"?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,366 ✭✭✭Star Bingo


    Not forgetting europeans are forbidden from appearing in many African adverts. Most recently Nigerian, curious timing considering the diaspora putiing their root down now and granted there’s likely not much of a market for European citizens there anyway so a myriad of reasons... burgeoning market potential / attempts to pacify a certain crowd, one constant though at the core of advertising is the subliminal which has surpassed that here in becoming painfully transparent.

    I don’t know what they take us for at this stage but allow yourself be subjected to it enough and you may well believe that you’re it. Very important to know when the joke is on us a very profound; indeed serious not so funny for us joke with profound repercussions on a peoples allowing themselves to be taken for granted. I always viewed Ireland as that vulnerable toddler on the world map in terms of scale, shape and naivety and I do not approve of the door being left ajar for outside interference to occur



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,340 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Woke people have turned it into something bad, they certainly didn’t need help.. 👀



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    That has been an issue long before the internet even existed and there’s elements on both sides who don’t like when it’s called Derry or Lderry. The bbc in the North use both interchangeably. The fact that you think it’s a new phenomenon brought on by wokeness just proves how little you actually know about it. Practically everyone in Derry city calls it Derry apart from a tiny minority in the waterside. See how snowflakey they are if you say that up there to them.



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