When did being woke become a bad thing?

The Phantom Jipper

@tesla_newbie

I'm still not much the wiser where you're coming from, to be honest. It seems to not sit well with you but for reasons that are fairly ill defined or not particularly relevant to the topic. Not just you but this whole thread seems to just be people moaning about the woke brigade in a way that's as annoying and petty as the stuff ye are accusing the workerati of doing. Life is too short for any of it in my opinion.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629518#Comment_120629518

Gaslighting is fun for some

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629257#Comment_120629257

The insistence by marketing staff in many orgs in Ireland to place Africans in adverts/brochures, etc., is pandering to the woke agenda.

They incorrectly think there is oppression everywhere, so they feel they must rebalance some imagined wrong.

I wonder does this happen in Turkey or Japan?

In Turkey, do colleges/universities/health insurers say: "Jaysus, we better put some Celts in the advert".

Obviously they don't, as they have not been infected by this bonkers thinking yet.

NSAman

For me it was the bad hair. Fat women especially with blue and pink hair, shouting like banshees while spouting nonsense. The nose rings and general visual of being impoverished wearing second hand clothes and hanging around in groups like wildebeest, grazing in too many calories all the time talking inequality and shouting at those with a differing view.

Tony EH

I absolutely despise the term. It's become a catch all label for the idiot brigade.

It's simultaneously shorthand for everything and nothing, which therefore nullifies all things.

Quantum Erasure

haven't read the thread, but two things stood out for me. both over 7 years ago, so...

the harassing of a professor(?) by students over something (not quite sure, I googled and found video linked below with description)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAr6LYC-xpE

On Oct 27/28, 2015 (the exact date isn't clear), the Yale Intercultural Affairs Committee sends out a mass email to the student body that includes guidelines on what kinds of halloween costumes to avoid. https://www.thefire.org/email-from-in...

On Oct 30, Erika Christakis (who is an early childhood development specialist, and "Associate Master" of Silliman College, one of Yale's twelve residential houses) emails a thoughtful response to Silliman students, questioning the appropriateness of the university micro-managing student lives, and suggested that students are adult enough to handle potential conflicts in a productive manner. https://goo.gl/lIovu1

Yale students respond by losing their collective minds. They protest, they cry, they demand the resignation of both Erika Christakis and her husband Nicholas Christakis.

On Nov 5, 2015, a group of students confront Nicholas on the campus quad and subject him to several hours of abusive public shaming worthy of Mao's Cultural Revolution.

and the 'dreadlocks are cultural appropriation' incident

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/viral-dreadlocks-confrontation-video

On Monday, video of a confrontation between two San Francisco State University students went viral. While tense discussions about race, systemic oppression, and discrimination have been popping up all across the country lately, this conversation between a black woman and a white man was quite different.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627911#Comment_120627911

katy is a trans person who's tweeting about her rights. She's tweeting about stuff that actually affects her and her community.

Graham Linehan is someone who became so obsessed with trans people his wife and family had to leave him. He's a sad little man. He's an example of how someone can become too obsessed with the culture war.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628591#Comment_120628591

Because they're billion euro companies who do market research and spend a fortune testing adverts to see what works? Their bottom line is profit.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629473#Comment_120629473

Oh yeah, all those people who are aware of discrimination and social injustices, what terrible people they are. Awful. Expecting others not to be racist and treat people equally. How disgusting. They should round them up and throw away the keys.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629833#Comment_120629833

The "dreadlocks are cultural appropriation" type incidents are what make "woke"different to just standard progressive. It is a kind of authoritarianism, I mean who does she think she is to go around policing peoples hair styles?

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629725#Comment_120629725

This discussion on branding and marketing has been fascinating.

It's eye-opening that the bogeyman of 'wokeness' has addled people to the point of questioning that massive, international companies know less about what they're doing in marketing their own products than bystanders who haven't been fooled by the left agenda.

SlowChris

Great examples of being woke, seen on TV adverts.

• Advert for deodorant featuring a skateboarder with no legs
• Advert for period pads featuring an obese figure skater
• Advert for shaving armpits using multiple ugly, fat armpits

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629858#Comment_120629858

How did the research at Bud Light fare ?

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629855#Comment_120629855

How do you know why Linehan and his wife split ?, their could be any amount of reasons and the public wouldn’t hear about it

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629885#Comment_120629885

Compassion narcissism

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629984#Comment_120629984

Progressives are usually woke as well, you are referring to liberals, liberals are scarce enough these days as they are often called “ far right “ by the woke ayatollahs

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630097#Comment_120630097

Everyone means different things with these terms, so that is part of the problem. Lots of personalities (like Peterson) make money by generating outrage. I wouldn't see a big difference between the woman harassing the dreadlocks guy and say someone who spends time harassing trans people online, both falling for the clickbait money generating outrage industry. I read the article about the dreadlocks incident and I have news for the author, white people would also be judged as stoners if they have dreadlocks.

BruteStock

Woke is a descriptive cach all umbrella term than can mean 101 different things. Its an observation from anything lighthearted to completely sinister.

For example banning Uncle Benn and Aunt Jemina is woke.

On the opposite side of the spectrum there's Charles R Lawrence who argued for raising the racial consciousness in white people in order to reject a "color blind society". Judging people on skin color is a repudiation of MLK and the civil rights movement.

This regressive dogma infested colleges as critical race training and is what drives anti-racist training which companies like the BBC and even the NHs spend untold millions on each year.

Woke is deconstructionist marxism.. Its ideology.

Sesame Street 1969, listen to how this man at the beginning addresses a majority white audience as "friends"

https://youtu.be/nV3uMESD7Fc?t=83

Fast forward to modern day (2015) and critical race theorists are teaching children how to be "color proud"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvX3TZo6q1s&ab_channel=NBCNews

While on the surface it may seem good intentioned and race theorists believe themselves to be the opposite of what the are. Many knew knew that teaching kids and even young college adults to be hyperfixated on race would cause more problems , not less. Its a surprise to nobody that America is now a racially divided country that is completely obsessed with skin color.

flexcon

For a moment I thought I was on Twitter reading this thread.

Ironically most Anti-Woke people I know are the ones who "cancel" the most and have the highest "Emotive" reactions. the only difference separating Woke & Anti-Woke is at what intensity level is given.

On a more serious note though - We have lost the common sense, average voice.

Many people out there who support a persons rights to free speech, no matter what it is, but also support abortion and are uncomfortable with there being multiple genders but continue to learn what it's all about.

I think anyway.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630083#Comment_120630083

Because he said so.

 In 2020, Linehan’s 16-year marriage to the comedy writer Helen Serafinowicz, with whom he also has a son, ended as a direct result of his trans battles, he says. 

https://archive.md/7scjM#selection-953.430-953.593

He also said so when he was talking to parliament.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630070#Comment_120630070

Was it "the woke" that cancelled Bud light btw?

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630070#Comment_120630070

You mean when some conservatives tried to cancel them?

I have no idea. Let's look at their financial results and see.

Thing is, even if they messed up, that's just one example. You mentioned how every advert seems to have mixed race couples in them. It's obviously working for them or else they would be going broke.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630186#Comment_120630186

America has always been a racially divided country that is completely obsessed with skin colour. To say otherwise is a gross misrepresentation of what non-white people have gone through over the last two and a half centuries.

They were so obsessed, white people and black people had different entrances to buildings, different water faucets to drink from, different sections to sit on on a bus etc. etc.

If being aware of that is a bad thing, well, I'm very guilty so.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630186#Comment_120630186

If I could thank this post a million times, I would

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630121#Comment_120630121

Jordan Peterson is not an outrage generator , that he is a hate figure for any self respecting woke progressive is another matter

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630443#Comment_120630443

Jordan Petersen is a hypocritical former drug addict and a bore.

He should set his own house in perfect order before criticizing the world

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630496#Comment_120630496

Oh well if you say it

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630496#Comment_120630496

Hardly a bore when you see how many people are interested in what he says.

Drug addiction is an illness. Should we disregard the expertise of everyone who has an illness in their lifetime?

BruteStock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630260#Comment_120630260

Dishonest misrepresentation of my post as I was clearly talking from a post civil rights era perspective and how the doctrine of CRT seeks to dismantle everything MLK stood for. Believe it or not race relations were getting better in the 70's , 80's and 90's. The culture helped by producing content that promoted unity and common ground. See the sesame street example you ignored. Another is the Cosby Show. An all black forward thinking sitcom that drew 68 Million viewers per episode every week. Todays cultural messages tell black people their fellow Americans are "colonizers" which seeps into the consciousness and creates more division not less. As a result race relations are far worse than they were 10 / 20 years ago.

This man agress. Maybe you should listen carefully to what he says.

https://youtu.be/ZznSmpDxfJg?t=123

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630584#Comment_120630584

No but we should discount the advice pandered by opiate addicted individuals when that advice is to

“Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world.”

What a hypocrite.

👆🤣🤣🤡

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630607#Comment_120630607

What is it with you guys and offering

1: video as any kind of proof. Why can you not offer a synopsis? Many people like myself right now are not in a position to watch and listen to a video, no matter how long it is.

2: it's always from an incredibly biased source. In this case GBNews is a right wing entertainment channel, of course it's users parrot what it states.

There was no dishonest representation. America has ALWAYS had a race problem. And now, finally it's getting to grips with it. Of course white people get offended when they're referred to as colonisers. The fact is their ascendants were most likely, colonisers. White people are not native to North America.

Maybe this is why history class is so important after all.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630664#Comment_120630664

Is it bad advice?

Do we blame people now for illness?

Not getting your point tbh

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630702#Comment_120630702

Yes it is bad advice.

And it is so glaringly hypocritical to tell people to do one thing while you are doing the exact opposite.

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629046#Comment_120629046

Like this example of ‘calm, eloquent, quiet, listening, then destroys them with well spoken and accurate words’

https://youtu.be/C2CuAVAERjs

What a guy.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630443#Comment_120630443

He profits from the outrage industry, if he wasn't involved in the whole culture wars thing he would be an unknown Canadian academic on 80k a year. He has done very well out of it. I can see why his "customers" would not want him to be seen this way. They prefer to hide behind someone who they regard as "smart" who "destroys liberals" or whatever, the whole "look a really smart guy thinks so", so it must be true. He is of course better at debating than the random outraged wokeists that he "destroys".

Floppybits

Reading the thread it seems that there is no problem with being "woke" as such, all it is suppose to be is people looking for fairness in an unfair world. I think most people are "woke" in some way. The problem is as with most things in this world are the people that are associated with being "woke", I suppose they would be called "virtue signalers", the ones that love to show everyone just how "great" a person they are and hold everyone to unrealistic standards.

Most of those that like the "look at me" carry on only do so in public where they can be told how great they are but in private they are nothing like what they show in public. Reminds of the preachers in the US telling their congregations not to do x, y and z or God would not look nicely on them while they are off hanging out at the local brothel, like the priests over here telling everyone they were going to hell and yet look at their carry on.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630854#Comment_120630854

Maybe some of us find him a refreshing and interesting thinker

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630937#Comment_120630937

If you can't think for yourself, at least try to be careful who you "outsource" your thinking to

mod

warning issued - uncivil

growleaves

If you watch Jordan Peterson regularly you will notice after a while he can burst into tears at any moment. He appears to me to be neurotic.

The problem is that the underlying principles of wokeness are accepted by most people so that when extreme versions of it appear they have no way of rejecting it.

I reject it for the philosophical reasons I stated earlier, but also historical injustices should be put in a proper broad context.

I would like to know why Irish people should care more about e.g. reparations for American blacks descended from African slaves as opposed to reparations for the descendants of enslaved Greeks, Serbians, Croatians, Montenegrins, Bosnians, Slovenes captured by the Ottoman Turks.

Plenty of the descendants of those slave-owners, Turkish merchants and other big-wigs, living the high life now in Istanbul which is a thriving city. They were colonialists too.

But of course we watch American TV, not Balkan TV. So it is a thousand films and TV series about racist Southerners that is burned into our brains.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632028#Comment_120632028

Agree with this. It is almost like critical race theorists feel they have stumbled on a of universal theory of racism, which can be applied everywhere, when all they have done is fitted the experience of black people in the Americas. They also have a kind of victim calculus, which unsurprisingly puts them at the top of victimhood and removes any blame they may have for discriminating against people themselves. I have no idea why people here give it much thought. Diane Abbot's ridiculous suggestion that "Jewish people do not experience racism because they have never had to sit at the back of the bus" would sum up this kind of thinking.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629380#Comment_120629380

Woke involve themselves in provoking and advocating injustice, unfairness and the vast majority of them or certainly a good number are bullies and enact entrenched bullying tactics to attempt to shout down, discredit, insult and provoke those with counter viewpoints…you don’t see them having anything approaching a reasonable, fair and educated debate with anyone… they only have empathy for their own lot, their own ideals and their own scheming mindsets….. don’t like it when they get shown up, they lose their shït. Woke is not good, it’s like a cancer but like cancer with better treatments and more awareness it’s been beaten… won’t go away 100% but it’s treatable in society now and sound thinking fair people are on top of them and make lifestyle choices to avoid getting… woke.… 🥸

nachouser

Kinda reminds me of this.

I am Jack's woke cancer. I kill Jack.

Itssoeasy

The basic part of being woke as I understand it is being anti racist and anti all the other prejudices that are out there. And that to me is perfectly fine and really should be a baseline for people in 2023.

The issue I have and think it hurts the underlying good parts are when there is lists of words released and suggesting intent for words and phrases that most likely was never the intention of the people who came up with it in some cases hundreds of years ago. I’ve seen it with Disney plus where there are warnings about the content of movies from the 1990s and the first few times i saw it I was genuinely confused because the movies I question, I’d have never said they promoted those things.

HerrKuehn

I think being against racism, sexism etc is just being progressive/liberal. Woke is something in addition to that, it's Authoritarian Progressivism.

Here is a good example:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/may/22/uber-suspends-diversity-chief-karen-bo-young-lee

"Uber suspends diversity chief over ‘Don’t Call Me Karen’ events

Bo Young Lee faced criticism for Zoom sessions that focused on white women’s experience of ‘Karen’ stereotype of entitlement"

"In internal Slack channels for Black and Hispanic Uber employees seen by the Times, workers said they had felt lectured at. “It was more of a lecture – I felt like I was being scolded for the entirety of that meeting,” one Black woman wrote.

Another said that she didn’t understand the premise of the session: “I think when people are called Karens it’s implied that this is someone that has little empathy to others or is bothered by minorities others that don’t look like them. Like, why can’t bad behavior not be called out?”"

Then you have woke male celebrities who over do the feminism online and then wind up in court for being the opposite

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633913#Comment_120633913

These are people to watch out for,

flexcon

Woke for me is closer to prioritising overly emotive conscientiousness over Situational awareness

now of course that probably makes no sense, but it's how I feel and that's the main thing in all of this

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634463#Comment_120634463

Exactly being anti woke is all about campaigning so peoples feelings are not being hurt.

Like when people see something in public they don't like , that hurts their feelings.

Or when a word is used in a context that upsets them, their feelings get hurt.

Or worse being asked to address someone in specific way in which they ask, those feelings again getting hurt.

But worst for the feelings seems to be when they are not allowed to tell people which toilet to sit on.

So really all the anti woke folk want is less hurt feelings.

tesla_newbie

If it were simply about opposing injustice , you would see progressive’s flying social media banners about the likes of white South African farmers being murdered or even closer to home , the issue of men getting an unfair shake in the family courts or the issue of defenceless elderly people in rural areas being targeted by travellers

wokeness is about displaying alertness to particular ( rather than all ) approved causes , in that sense it’s performative for the most part and severely lacking in sincerity

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638036#Comment_120638036

What a ridiculous argument.