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When did being woke become a bad thing?

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  • 21-05-2023 8:59pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    "The woke brigade" and such. From definition, I see it as being anti-racist, what is the problem with people being anti-racist?

    Am I out of touch of has the definition changed?



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,263 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    They see division and oppression everywhere, although there isn't any.

    Of course being anti-racism is good.

    We are all anti-racism.

    But a woke person will believe and support rubbish like this:

    "the hills are racist because black people choose to not go hill-walking".



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,263 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    It's not so much that they are bad, rather they are bonkers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭hoodie6029


    It’s just their attempt to silence others. They want to be able to say racist, sexist etc things and not be told ‘that’s sexist’.

    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    It's the whole, "You can't say that anymore" shyte that has them hated.


    Yes you can, you can say whatever the hell you like, if the PC brigade want to be offended, then that's their own problem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,342 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    It isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing.

    Some backward people have tried to change it to be an insult, but it's not.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,861 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    EU woke culture was one of the main reasons for Brexit. Especially their proposed ban on Christmas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,613 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Wrong thread, sorry!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭Brid Hegarty


    Yeah, like you can no longer say "next time you get yourself a cheeseburger and fries for $2.95 phaggot"... at least not in movies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭orourkeda1




  • Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭I.R.Y.E.D


    Plenty of evidence to support the theory online



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    Before woke there was being politically correct being woke is just being aware of the rights of minority's be it a racial group or the LGBT community ,I think it's a good thing that the rights of people who are not white or heterosexual are being recognised.

    I think it's a good thing that Ireland made gay marriage legal.

    Before woke existed there was the gay rights movement and feminism the women's rights movement

    I think the main reason for Brexit was some people were concerned about the UK being flooded with immigrants and they feared losing control of their borders

    Now the UK economy is in decline as many UK industry's depend on tax free exports and imports from the EU and there's alot more EU red tape and regulation taxes to comply with in order to trade as a non EU country



  • Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭The Phantom Jipper


    It seems to be one of those terms people use to mask their racism, sexism or homophobia now that those things are no longer socially acceptable. You can't really openly complain about too many black people in movies or a new gay nightclub opening up etc etc, but it's acceptable to complain about things being "too woke nowadays". It seems to be increasingly popular now that "it's political correctness gone mad" fell out of favour as the go-to phrase.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    Being "woke" is interpreted by the woke as being progressive. However, in many cases it isn't. For example, applying gender or minority quotas to recruitment, in the manner that United Airlines announced it was doing with it's trainee pilots in 2021. It would be better to hire the best candidates for the job regardless of their race or gender. I doubt that is disputed by anyone. Yet here we have a company saying that the priority would be to have racial diversity and equality of the sexes. Having less skilled pilots because it fits an agenda is regressive to my mind.

    It's stuff like this that get's people rolling their eyes at the woke. If there are a lack of suitable candidates from particular ethnicities or genders, then the question should be what can be done in the education system to improve the pool of such candidates once they have finished education. Applying quotas without addressing the issue of why there are less suitable female candidates or within ethnic minorities makes no sense.

    I don't think anti woke people are inherently racist or sexist, though undoubtedly some are, that's a fact of life in any demographic. I think they are perhaps more skeptical of the approach taken by those they see as woke to solving issues, they see them as ideologists. All of these issues involve race or gender, it's hard to have a dissenting view without appearing racist or sexist to the woke. In there lies another problem, people are afraid to express an opinion because of the potential backlash from the woke. Intelligent discussion falls by the wayside as the woke seem to be arrogant and righteous about their position and even unwilling to listen to other opinions.

    I think another aspect is that a lot of the woke thinking appears to get imported from the US. We're importing "new" problems and nobody wants more problems, regardless of whether they already exist and it's just that we weren't talking about them. So you'll get people complaining about the woke because they now have to listen to and be considerate of issues that they didn't think about and don't want to. People don't generally like change, even if it's for the better, and the woke movement involves a lot of change.



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I hate the term but know what it means. My friend went from a pretty right-wing American to very "woke" in the space of a couple of years because of a social circle + 2016 and it was remarkable to watch.

    Things I believed my entire life came second to his new-found zeal of the convert, and his views became entirely predictable on everything. His girlfriend was the same, and they seemed to compete with each other for this purity.

    When Trump went away, so did their zeal and they reverted to the right-wingers they actually are. Now I'm the left-winger again with my decades-old reasonable views.

    I remember one girl in their group of friends deciding to not visit her sick mother in the US because Trump was president, and the entire table agreed that she should wait. I could sense the unease at the table as they all had to adopt this braindead position in order to maintain their social standing with each other.

    I also remember it being socially acceptable amongst the "woke" to be ambivalent about the Vegas massacre because it was a country and western gig. Or the train derailment in Ohio? That was a red area so they deserve it.

    It does not just mean being anti-racist and pro-LGBT. That's normal. It means having ludicrous positions on those topics which leads me to know your exact position on every other topic we've never even discussed. If five years ago, I said "drag story time" and you would have responded "but why?", but now you know some people don't like it so you are hugely in support of it, you're "woke". If you have maintained your pro-LGBT views but still think "but why?", then you're a normal person with genuine beliefs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,071 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Woke used to mean to be aware of social issues, inequity, racism, unfairness…. That sort of thing..

    but there has been a weaponised sort of militant mindset… adopted that changed, charged hijacked or expanded its current meaning…. Where it’s now seen where woke people are largely the bullies, the shouting down at people, the using false narratives to bullshît people, try to discredit others and push militantly unfair, off the wall social narratives about other people and their lives…and what should become acceptable…politically and socially…

    woke people really pick and choose fights, enable them, yet go missing where their accepted ideals and verbiage proves useless against better more intelligently charged people…who deal in facts and also arnt open or receptive to their bullying… the wokies tend to like the ‘gang’… attack….as we’ve all seen…by and large they don’t do good 1 vs 1…. Slander, lies, bitchiness and hatred…… are regularly tactics of theirs… they are otherworldly levels of hypocrisy…they don’t discuss, debate, dissect … just… the woke bible of BS is their book, the playbook they know it back to front, quote it’s mantra on repeat….act it everyday..jeez.. 🫢



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,179 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    You're right about it being imported from the US. The US right is doing nothing to help people. Their economic policies hurt most people. But they've managed to get a culture war started. This is aided by news networks like fox. Rather than focus on actual issues, drum up some boogeyman. Make it look like they hate america and hate you. So when someone campaigns for an end to racism, they're called anti white. When someone wants gay marriage, they''re called anti family. When someone wants to protest the gun violence they're called anti gun rights / anti freedom. If someone says we shouldn't use racial slurs then people jump on it and call them anti free speech. And my favorite, when people protest against nazi's in places like Charlottesville then somehow they manage to turn anti fascist into a bad thing.

    It creates a culture war based on feelings where people are fed information to get them riled up in the news and on social media. On the news they just want views so they can sell ads. And on social media they feed outrage so it can drive engagement and sell ads.

    So in the end half the country hate the other half, nothing actually gets fixed and it's all so that boner pills can be sold.

    Post edited by Grayson on


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,434 ✭✭✭✭Penn




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭RetroEncabulator


    It’s been turned into yet more American culture war b/s name calling that’s spreading online. They take a word with a positive meaning, redefine it to mean “them lot” and use it as a slur.

    It’s rather sad to see this stuff spreading here, albeit on the fringes, but I really thought Ireland had a sarcastic, cynical b/s filter but clearly it’s not as effective as I once thought.



  • Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭timetogo1


    Is "woke" a bad thing. When you see the people that call others woke a lot of the time they're not people who have opinions you'd normally respect.

    If a total pr***k calls you woke does that matter and in cases like that I'd take it as a positive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    It was long just a term for very progressive views so it was always a bad thing. To me, the word seems to have been coopted from Christian language. When ever conservatives start becoming familiar with the terms progressives use, to criticise them, progressives accuse conservatives of hijacking the word. It occurred with critical theory, it occurred with woke, it will occur again



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    Waking up in the morning and spending your entire day waiting for someone to say or do the wrong thing (wrong according to you) sister so you can be outraged and offended is not a good thing.

    But you’ll only realise that when the tide turns and people decide that what YOU are saying is actually the wrong thing (according to them) and it’s you that’s being accused of being offensive and outrageous.

    But that’s already starting to happen, thankfully.

    It always swings back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    For me there is a difference between Progressivism (equal rights, gender equality, same sex marriage, trans rights etc) and wokeism which I would regard as a kind of "Authoritarian Progressivism". But I suppose everyone has a kind of different definition of it. It is hard to argue against things like anti-racism and that is what some people would define wokeism as. For others it includes all the nonsensical things like cultural appropriation etc.





  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    Its the bullying that gets me. The woke just cant help but gang up and bully anyone who might have a different opinion on something than them.

    Actually its worse than that. They even gang up and bully people who have no opinion on something, just because they want them to have an opinion on it (has to be the same opinion as them though)



  • Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭d15ude


    So woke culture really is a very good thing!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    I think there need to be gender quotas in certain areas ,eg at least 20 per cent of TDs need to be female of course there's people who are offended by trivial things that don't matter



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    The recent Irish Times Fake tan article debacle was a great case in point as to where “woke” has gone to now.

    A parody article deliberately made to be over the top ridiculous in its wokeness and yet it got published by the Times, formerly viewed as a “paper of repute”

    Being woke used to be about challenging clear racism and hatred, being aware of inequalities and giving everyone the same chance regardless of background.

    Now it’s just become a vehicle for bullies to browbeat people and claim a supposed moral superiority over others



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Exactly, there has been increasing authoritarianism on both the left and right for the last 10 years or so in my opinion. They basically feed off each other and I would wonder how much of it is actually genuine and how much is designed purely for click bait. There is plenty of money to be made in the outrage industry as we can see with the amount of grifters involved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Opposing racism is an honourable and moral standpoint

    “ anti racism “ is a whole other thing, it’s a new version of “ anti fascist “ , just like how the anti fascists of the thirties were communists, self declared “ anti racists “ today are invariably Marxist in outlook and ideology, it’s a clever banner obviously as who wants to say they aren’t “anti racist” ?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,134 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's become a slur for right wing regressives to use to dismiss any dissent and to hide the fact that they have no ideas, no intellect and no interest in anything but their preening.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    While there are many examples of wokeness , a very obvious one is how advertisers frequently characterise couples as say a black guy and a white woman, if an alien landed here tomorrow and stayed in a room with a TV but never went outside, the alien would conclude that most married couples were mixed racially

    thats an example of wokeness portraying life in a wholly unrealistic way , personally I’d have no problem if either of my kids grew up and married someone of a different race but most couples aren’t racially mixed



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