When did being woke become a bad thing?

veryangryman

"The woke brigade" and such. From definition, I see it as being anti-racist, what is the problem with people being anti-racist?

Am I out of touch of has the definition changed?

Geuze

They see division and oppression everywhere, although there isn't any.

Of course being anti-racism is good.

We are all anti-racism.

But a woke person will believe and support rubbish like this:

"the hills are racist because black people choose to not go hill-walking".

Geuze

It's not so much that they are bad, rather they are bonkers.

hoodie6029

It’s just their attempt to silence others. They want to be able to say racist, sexist etc things and not be told ‘that’s sexist’.

Lewis_Benson

It's the whole, "You can't say that anymore" shyte that has them hated.

Yes you can, you can say whatever the hell you like, if the PC brigade want to be offended, then that's their own problem.

suvigirl

It isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing.

Some backward people have tried to change it to be an insult, but it's not.

dxhound2005

EU woke culture was one of the main reasons for Brexit. Especially their proposed ban on Christmas.

John_Rambo

Wrong thread, sorry!!

Brid Hegarty

Yeah, like you can no longer say "next time you get yourself a cheeseburger and fries for $2.95 phaggot"... at least not in movies.

orourkeda1

When this article was published.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2020/jul/06/upward-thrusting-buildings-ejaculating-cities-sexist-leslie-kern-phallic-feminist-city-toxic-masculinity

I.R.Y.E.D

https://twitter.com/sfmnemonic/status/1504687870006620163?s=20

Plenty of evidence to support the theory online

riclad

Before woke there was being politically correct being woke is just being aware of the rights of minority's be it a racial group or the LGBT community ,I think it's a good thing that the rights of people who are not white or heterosexual are being recognised.

I think it's a good thing that Ireland made gay marriage legal.

Before woke existed there was the gay rights movement and feminism the women's rights movement

I think the main reason for Brexit was some people were concerned about the UK being flooded with immigrants and they feared losing control of their borders

Now the UK economy is in decline as many UK industry's depend on tax free exports and imports from the EU and there's alot more EU red tape and regulation taxes to comply with in order to trade as a non EU country

The Phantom Jipper

It seems to be one of those terms people use to mask their racism, sexism or homophobia now that those things are no longer socially acceptable. You can't really openly complain about too many black people in movies or a new gay nightclub opening up etc etc, but it's acceptable to complain about things being "too woke nowadays". It seems to be increasingly popular now that "it's political correctness gone mad" fell out of favour as the go-to phrase.

lintdrummer

Being "woke" is interpreted by the woke as being progressive. However, in many cases it isn't. For example, applying gender or minority quotas to recruitment, in the manner that United Airlines announced it was doing with it's trainee pilots in 2021. It would be better to hire the best candidates for the job regardless of their race or gender. I doubt that is disputed by anyone. Yet here we have a company saying that the priority would be to have racial diversity and equality of the sexes. Having less skilled pilots because it fits an agenda is regressive to my mind.

It's stuff like this that get's people rolling their eyes at the woke. If there are a lack of suitable candidates from particular ethnicities or genders, then the question should be what can be done in the education system to improve the pool of such candidates once they have finished education. Applying quotas without addressing the issue of why there are less suitable female candidates or within ethnic minorities makes no sense.

I don't think anti woke people are inherently racist or sexist, though undoubtedly some are, that's a fact of life in any demographic. I think they are perhaps more skeptical of the approach taken by those they see as woke to solving issues, they see them as ideologists. All of these issues involve race or gender, it's hard to have a dissenting view without appearing racist or sexist to the woke. In there lies another problem, people are afraid to express an opinion because of the potential backlash from the woke. Intelligent discussion falls by the wayside as the woke seem to be arrogant and righteous about their position and even unwilling to listen to other opinions.

I think another aspect is that a lot of the woke thinking appears to get imported from the US. We're importing "new" problems and nobody wants more problems, regardless of whether they already exist and it's just that we weren't talking about them. So you'll get people complaining about the woke because they now have to listen to and be considerate of issues that they didn't think about and don't want to. People don't generally like change, even if it's for the better, and the woke movement involves a lot of change.

I hate the term but know what it means. My friend went from a pretty right-wing American to very "woke" in the space of a couple of years because of a social circle + 2016 and it was remarkable to watch.

Things I believed my entire life came second to his new-found zeal of the convert, and his views became entirely predictable on everything. His girlfriend was the same, and they seemed to compete with each other for this purity.

When Trump went away, so did their zeal and they reverted to the right-wingers they actually are. Now I'm the left-winger again with my decades-old reasonable views.

I remember one girl in their group of friends deciding to not visit her sick mother in the US because Trump was president, and the entire table agreed that she should wait. I could sense the unease at the table as they all had to adopt this braindead position in order to maintain their social standing with each other.

I also remember it being socially acceptable amongst the "woke" to be ambivalent about the Vegas massacre because it was a country and western gig. Or the train derailment in Ohio? That was a red area so they deserve it.

It does not just mean being anti-racist and pro-LGBT. That's normal. It means having ludicrous positions on those topics which leads me to know your exact position on every other topic we've never even discussed. If five years ago, I said "drag story time" and you would have responded "but why?", but now you know some people don't like it so you are hugely in support of it, you're "woke". If you have maintained your pro-LGBT views but still think "but why?", then you're a normal person with genuine beliefs.

Strumms

Woke used to mean to be aware of social issues, inequity, racism, unfairness…. That sort of thing..

but there has been a weaponised sort of militant mindset… adopted that changed, charged hijacked or expanded its current meaning…. Where it’s now seen where woke people are largely the bullies, the shouting down at people, the using false narratives to bullshît people, try to discredit others and push militantly unfair, off the wall social narratives about other people and their lives…and what should become acceptable…politically and socially…

woke people really pick and choose fights, enable them, yet go missing where their accepted ideals and verbiage proves useless against better more intelligently charged people…who deal in facts and also arnt open or receptive to their bullying… the wokies tend to like the ‘gang’… attack….as we’ve all seen…by and large they don’t do good 1 vs 1…. Slander, lies, bitchiness and hatred…… are regularly tactics of theirs… they are otherworldly levels of hypocrisy…they don’t discuss, debate, dissect … just… the woke bible of BS is their book, the playbook they know it back to front, quote it’s mantra on repeat….act it everyday..jeez.. 🫢

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120625730#Comment_120625730

You're right about it being imported from the US. The US right is doing nothing to help people. Their economic policies hurt most people. But they've managed to get a culture war started. This is aided by news networks like fox. Rather than focus on actual issues, drum up some boogeyman. Make it look like they hate america and hate you. So when someone campaigns for an end to racism, they're called anti white. When someone wants gay marriage, they''re called anti family. When someone wants to protest the gun violence they're called anti gun rights / anti freedom. If someone says we shouldn't use racial slurs then people jump on it and call them anti free speech. And my favorite, when people protest against nazi's in places like Charlottesville then somehow they manage to turn anti fascist into a bad thing.

It creates a culture war based on feelings where people are fed information to get them riled up in the news and on social media. On the news they just want views so they can sell ads. And on social media they feed outrage so it can drive engagement and sell ads.

So in the end half the country hate the other half, nothing actually gets fixed and it's all so that boner pills can be sold.

Penn

https://twitter.com/onkar/status/1658405044692176900?s=20

...

It’s been turned into yet more American culture war b/s name calling that’s spreading online. They take a word with a positive meaning, redefine it to mean “them lot” and use it as a slur.

It’s rather sad to see this stuff spreading here, albeit on the fringes, but I really thought Ireland had a sarcastic, cynical b/s filter but clearly it’s not as effective as I once thought.

timetogo1

Is "woke" a bad thing. When you see the people that call others woke a lot of the time they're not people who have opinions you'd normally respect.

If a total pr***k calls you woke does that matter and in cases like that I'd take it as a positive.

Yellow_Fern

It was long just a term for very progressive views so it was always a bad thing. To me, the word seems to have been coopted from Christian language. When ever conservatives start becoming familiar with the terms progressives use, to criticise them, progressives accuse conservatives of hijacking the word. It occurred with critical theory, it occurred with woke, it will occur again

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120625523#Comment_120625523

Waking up in the morning and spending your entire day waiting for someone to say or do the wrong thing (wrong according to you) sister so you can be outraged and offended is not a good thing.

But you’ll only realise that when the tide turns and people decide that what YOU are saying is actually the wrong thing (according to them) and it’s you that’s being accused of being offensive and outrageous.

But that’s already starting to happen, thankfully.

It always swings back.

HerrKuehn

For me there is a difference between Progressivism (equal rights, gender equality, same sex marriage, trans rights etc) and wokeism which I would regard as a kind of "Authoritarian Progressivism". But I suppose everyone has a kind of different definition of it. It is hard to argue against things like anti-racism and that is what some people would define wokeism as. For others it includes all the nonsensical things like cultural appropriation etc.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/04/barbecue-american-tradition-enslaved-africans-native-americans

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/20/jamie-olivers-jerk-rice-dish-a-mistake-says-jamaica-born-chef

DownByTheGarden

Its the bullying that gets me. The woke just cant help but gang up and bully anyone who might have a different opinion on something than them.

Actually its worse than that. They even gang up and bully people who have no opinion on something, just because they want them to have an opinion on it (has to be the same opinion as them though)

d15ude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120625562#Comment_120625562

So woke culture really is a very good thing!!!

riclad

I think there need to be gender quotas in certain areas ,eg at least 20 per cent of TDs need to be female of course there's people who are offended by trivial things that don't matter

Stephen_Maturin

The recent Irish Times Fake tan article debacle was a great case in point as to where “woke” has gone to now.

A parody article deliberately made to be over the top ridiculous in its wokeness and yet it got published by the Times, formerly viewed as a “paper of repute”

Being woke used to be about challenging clear racism and hatred, being aware of inequalities and giving everyone the same chance regardless of background.

Now it’s just become a vehicle for bullies to browbeat people and claim a supposed moral superiority over others

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120626358#Comment_120626358

Exactly, there has been increasing authoritarianism on both the left and right for the last 10 years or so in my opinion. They basically feed off each other and I would wonder how much of it is actually genuine and how much is designed purely for click bait. There is plenty of money to be made in the outrage industry as we can see with the amount of grifters involved.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058297369/when-did-being-woke-become-a-bad-thing

Opposing racism is an honourable and moral standpoint

“ anti racism “ is a whole other thing, it’s a new version of “ anti fascist “ , just like how the anti fascists of the thirties were communists, self declared “ anti racists “ today are invariably Marxist in outlook and ideology, it’s a clever banner obviously as who wants to say they aren’t “anti racist” ?

ancapailldorcha

It's become a slur for right wing regressives to use to dismiss any dissent and to hide the fact that they have no ideas, no intellect and no interest in anything but their preening.

tesla_newbie

While there are many examples of wokeness , a very obvious one is how advertisers frequently characterise couples as say a black guy and a white woman, if an alien landed here tomorrow and stayed in a room with a TV but never went outside, the alien would conclude that most married couples were mixed racially

thats an example of wokeness portraying life in a wholly unrealistic way , personally I’d have no problem if either of my kids grew up and married someone of a different race but most couples aren’t racially mixed

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058297369/when-did-being-woke-become-a-bad-thing

I hate to break it to you, but woke people are actually promoting racism and racial segregation. They are, among other things, claiming that black people need help to succeed in life, that they are nothing but helpless victims, that black people need to be treated differently and not held to the same standards when it comes to education, work and crime. They are pushing the bigotry of low expectations further than anyone.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120625976#Comment_120625976

This is 2 sides of the same coin tbf. Calling people names for a position they take on anything is fairly immature but seems to be standard fayre in US political debates. Unfortunately it is catching on over here aswell (promoted by the media).

Oscar_Madison

I think speaking in “absolutes”- be it woke talk or indeed racist talk, just leads to a whole lot of trouble.

Im not afraid to say I don’t believe transgender women should be allowed to compete in women’s spots competitions - I believe it’s grossly unfair and completely illogical - a few years ago had I posted that on boards.ie I may well have been banned- now, people are starting to wake up to the fact that these issues aren’t so simple or black and white and are leading to real problems for women competitors.

Im for equality- but not stupidity- I think wokeness while its original intentions might have been ok, has led to an awful lot of stupidity since.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120626473#Comment_120626473

The victimhood hierarchy is a central plank of woke thought

monseiur

The fact that woke and cancel culture go hand in hand says it all really....they just can't handle the truth (to quote Jack Nicholosn in A Few Good Men) Thankfully it's being gradually consigned to history.

Star Bingo

Clue’s in the name is about folk slow to pick up, it’s actually the worlds biggest slumber party since its very inception.

-history’s biggest reveal type of folk that separate the chaffe from the wheat; that sort of thing. Some even call it a mass suicide drive and every aspect does seem to correlate

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120626325#Comment_120626325

How would that work? Say in a constituency there were no women who wanted to stand for the position of TD, or say a woman did stand and didn’t get enough votes, how would it work?

Rothko

Love how people are pretending that it means "anti-racism" when that is so far from the truth.

dmakc

When was woke a good thing?

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120626589#Comment_120626589

You link the funding for the local Cumann to the ability to put forward a woman. You set a target date of say 8 years from now in which it comes into effect. In that time you provide courses and education to the cumann. This involves how to go out into the community to get more engagement and get more people involved at a local level. You will have more people involved in local politics which is a good thing. Everyone is polled and asked if they want to do training/courses on being a candidate so they get overviews on what the job involves. Then you get more women shortlisted for council seats and TD seats. You don't have to select the woman as candidates, they just have to be present on the list. It's not something that happens overnight. It takes time and effort. But you end up with more grassroots participation and more women.

Currently Ireland has one of the female lowest participation in politics in Europe. Last time I looked at the figures Iraq and Afghanistan (Pre taliban takeover) had more women MP's. And some parties in Ireland like SF and the SD's manage to get a pretty good representation. So it's not that women don't want to get involved in politics, it's that some parties, namely FF & FG, are particularly bad at attracting them.

dxhound2005

The only way to make local elections of interest to either men or women is to pay them properly. I would go for €50,000 per annum plus generous expenses. As it is there are far too few to make proper contests. In 2019 1,977 candidates contested 949 seats, less than two on average. An example is the Ballybay Clones ward in Monaghan were 6 candidates contested 5 seats.

Even worse in the North last week, only 807 candidates for 462 seats.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627116#Comment_120627116

It's a separate issue but there is a certain "jobs for the boys" attitude in politics, especially in Ireland.

dxhound2005

The "girls" have more wit than to put themselves forward for thankless jobs with small money.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120625997#Comment_120625997

This is an example of people trying to make ' woke' a bad thing.

belittling people and putting them down. No one is getting out of bed looking to be offended by anything.

Woke is being aware of social injustice and discrimination. Now why anybody believes that is a bad thing, is beyond me. You would imagine that they would be people that don't care about injustice or discrimination.

gmisk

https://twitter.com/KathyBurke/status/1502941939427074050?t=5AABlGVEPmwzTBx2Ptf14A&s=19

Wise words

Strumms

plenty of anti woke people are in fact anti racist, anti fascist, anti bullying, anti those grim woke gang up / shout down everyone in disagreement sort of bullying creeps... the woke lot embody a version of fascism… authoritarianism and militarism which are known embodiments of fascism….the woke tick those boxes and some.

the woke don’t want reasonable open and fair debate…about anything… shout and run are their tactics…

Jordan Peterson has been ganged up on by woke people on tv shows and they’ve ALL ended up making fools of themselves, trying to shout over him, interrupting, misrepresenting him…he stands up to bullying in the most calm, yet determined and sincere manner, leaves them squirming and loosing their shït….. he is anti woke..anti bullying and determined… brave and big hearted…

The Phantom Jipper

@tesla_newbie

Genuinely curious, what is the underlying issue with mixed race couples appearing in ads, other than hypothetical aliens being confused if they were to watch the ads?

It seems pretty clear that companies like selling products to everyone so it's in their interests to be inclusive to maximise profits but apparently there is a more insidious agenda at play? Assuming for a second that mixed race couples are over-represented, why is that something that you would care about? It just seems like taking a dim view of miscegenation but using "anti-wokeness" to give it a veneer of respectability?

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627237#Comment_120627237

People can disagree with what constitutes injustice. As an example, say a trans female competing in women's sport. I can see both sides here, so we accept that people can change gender and so they feel they should be allowed to compete in their chosen gender. Biological females may feel that it is not fair that someone who has gone through male puberty should be allowed compete with against them. Both sides have a point here and people will have different views on it. Personally, I am all for trans rights and would use whatever pronouns someone wanted me to use, but I don't think they should be competing in women's sport. I think the best solution could be to get rid of gender based categories and instead have an "X chromosome only" category and an open category where anyone can compete. Of course there will be some people who could make a case that although they have a Y chromosome, there is no benefit to it for whatever medical reason. Any solution will result in some sort of perceived unfairness, so my view would be to have it be as unfair to the smallest possible group of people. The number of females with a non-functional Y chromosome would be extremely small.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627346#Comment_120627346

I agree

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627352#Comment_120627352

But you are aware that some people would become angry at a suggestion like that and would demonise the person for saying it? Debate around these things has been pushed out to the extremes, same with politics in Ireland, if you are not with us, then you are against us. Only the Sith deal in absolutes.