When did being woke become a bad thing?

Cordell · 22-05-2023 11:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058297369/when-did-being-woke-become-a-bad-thing

I hate to break it to you, but woke people are actually promoting racism and racial segregation. They are, among other things, claiming that black people need help to succeed in life, that they are nothing but helpless victims, that black people need to be treated differently and not held to the same standards when it comes to education, work and crime. They are pushing the bigotry of low expectations further than anyone.

Pawwed Rig · 22-05-2023 11:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120625976#Comment_120625976

This is 2 sides of the same coin tbf. Calling people names for a position they take on anything is fairly immature but seems to be standard fayre in US political debates. Unfortunately it is catching on over here aswell (promoted by the media).

Oscar_Madison · 22-05-2023 11:19am

I think speaking in “absolutes”- be it woke talk or indeed racist talk, just leads to a whole lot of trouble.

Im not afraid to say I don’t believe transgender women should be allowed to compete in women’s spots competitions - I believe it’s grossly unfair and completely illogical - a few years ago had I posted that on boards.ie I may well have been banned- now, people are starting to wake up to the fact that these issues aren’t so simple or black and white and are leading to real problems for women competitors.

Im for equality- but not stupidity- I think wokeness while its original intentions might have been ok, has led to an awful lot of stupidity since.

tesla_newbie · 22-05-2023 11:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120626473#Comment_120626473

The victimhood hierarchy is a central plank of woke thought

monseiur · 22-05-2023 11:30am

The fact that woke and cancel culture go hand in hand says it all really....they just can't handle the truth (to quote Jack Nicholosn in A Few Good Men) Thankfully it's being gradually consigned to history.

Star Bingo · 22-05-2023 11:48am

Clue’s in the name is about folk slow to pick up, it’s actually the worlds biggest slumber party since its very inception.

-history’s biggest reveal type of folk that separate the chaffe from the wheat; that sort of thing. Some even call it a mass suicide drive and every aspect does seem to correlate

TooTired123 · 22-05-2023 11:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120626325#Comment_120626325

How would that work? Say in a constituency there were no women who wanted to stand for the position of TD, or say a woman did stand and didn’t get enough votes, how would it work?

Rothko · 22-05-2023 12:42pm

Love how people are pretending that it means "anti-racism" when that is so far from the truth.

dmakc · 22-05-2023 12:44pm

When was woke a good thing?

Grayson · 22-05-2023 1:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120626589#Comment_120626589

You link the funding for the local Cumann to the ability to put forward a woman. You set a target date of say 8 years from now in which it comes into effect. In that time you provide courses and education to the cumann. This involves how to go out into the community to get more engagement and get more people involved at a local level. You will have more people involved in local politics which is a good thing. Everyone is polled and asked if they want to do training/courses on being a candidate so they get overviews on what the job involves. Then you get more women shortlisted for council seats and TD seats. You don't have to select the woman as candidates, they just have to be present on the list. It's not something that happens overnight. It takes time and effort. But you end up with more grassroots participation and more women.

Currently Ireland has one of the female lowest participation in politics in Europe. Last time I looked at the figures Iraq and Afghanistan (Pre taliban takeover) had more women MP's. And some parties in Ireland like SF and the SD's manage to get a pretty good representation. So it's not that women don't want to get involved in politics, it's that some parties, namely FF & FG, are particularly bad at attracting them.

dxhound2005 · 22-05-2023 1:54pm

The only way to make local elections of interest to either men or women is to pay them properly. I would go for €50,000 per annum plus generous expenses. As it is there are far too few to make proper contests. In 2019 1,977 candidates contested 949 seats, less than two on average. An example is the Ballybay Clones ward in Monaghan were 6 candidates contested 5 seats.

Even worse in the North last week, only 807 candidates for 462 seats.

Grayson · 22-05-2023 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627116#Comment_120627116

It's a separate issue but there is a certain "jobs for the boys" attitude in politics, especially in Ireland.

dxhound2005 · 22-05-2023 2:11pm

The "girls" have more wit than to put themselves forward for thankless jobs with small money.

suvigirl · 22-05-2023 2:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120625997#Comment_120625997

This is an example of people trying to make ' woke' a bad thing.

belittling people and putting them down. No one is getting out of bed looking to be offended by anything.

Woke is being aware of social injustice and discrimination. Now why anybody believes that is a bad thing, is beyond me. You would imagine that they would be people that don't care about injustice or discrimination.

gmisk · 22-05-2023 2:17pm

https://twitter.com/KathyBurke/status/1502941939427074050?t=5AABlGVEPmwzTBx2Ptf14A&s=19

Wise words

Strumms · 22-05-2023 2:27pm

plenty of anti woke people are in fact anti racist, anti fascist, anti bullying, anti those grim woke gang up / shout down everyone in disagreement sort of bullying creeps... the woke lot embody a version of fascism… authoritarianism and militarism which are known embodiments of fascism….the woke tick those boxes and some.

the woke don’t want reasonable open and fair debate…about anything… shout and run are their tactics…

Jordan Peterson has been ganged up on by woke people on tv shows and they’ve ALL ended up making fools of themselves, trying to shout over him, interrupting, misrepresenting him…he stands up to bullying in the most calm, yet determined and sincere manner, leaves them squirming and loosing their shït….. he is anti woke..anti bullying and determined… brave and big hearted…

The Phantom Jipper · 22-05-2023 2:34pm

@tesla_newbie

Genuinely curious, what is the underlying issue with mixed race couples appearing in ads, other than hypothetical aliens being confused if they were to watch the ads?

It seems pretty clear that companies like selling products to everyone so it's in their interests to be inclusive to maximise profits but apparently there is a more insidious agenda at play? Assuming for a second that mixed race couples are over-represented, why is that something that you would care about? It just seems like taking a dim view of miscegenation but using "anti-wokeness" to give it a veneer of respectability?

HerrKuehn · 22-05-2023 2:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627237#Comment_120627237

People can disagree with what constitutes injustice. As an example, say a trans female competing in women's sport. I can see both sides here, so we accept that people can change gender and so they feel they should be allowed to compete in their chosen gender. Biological females may feel that it is not fair that someone who has gone through male puberty should be allowed compete with against them. Both sides have a point here and people will have different views on it. Personally, I am all for trans rights and would use whatever pronouns someone wanted me to use, but I don't think they should be competing in women's sport. I think the best solution could be to get rid of gender based categories and instead have an "X chromosome only" category and an open category where anyone can compete. Of course there will be some people who could make a case that although they have a Y chromosome, there is no benefit to it for whatever medical reason. Any solution will result in some sort of perceived unfairness, so my view would be to have it be as unfair to the smallest possible group of people. The number of females with a non-functional Y chromosome would be extremely small.

suvigirl · 22-05-2023 2:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627346#Comment_120627346

I agree

HerrKuehn · 22-05-2023 2:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627352#Comment_120627352

But you are aware that some people would become angry at a suggestion like that and would demonise the person for saying it? Debate around these things has been pushed out to the extremes, same with politics in Ireland, if you are not with us, then you are against us. Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

DownByTheGarden · 22-05-2023 2:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627237#Comment_120627237

You are joking right. Thge world is now choc full of people searching for their next opportunity to be offended on behalf of someone else.

TooTired123 · 22-05-2023 2:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627237#Comment_120627237

Most adults are aware of injustice and discrimination. Genuine incidents of injustice and discrimination need to be called out and condemned every time they are observed.

Where the problem arises is when mostly well meaning people think they spot an instance of injustice or discrimination but in fact no such occurrence has taken place. Then creating a whole stinking row and demanding that people be sacked from their positions and deplatformed etc.

The JK Rowling debacle is an example, how utterly ridiculous is that.

Oscar_Madison · 22-05-2023 2:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627426#Comment_120627426

Indeed- it becomes a witch hunt and we’ve seen too many of those over the past few years- oh, someone has a different opinion to mine- they must be evil- shoot them now!!!

Saying that, Graham Lenihan doesn’t do himself many favours either in the way he goes about his approach to transgenderism - sometimes it’s just better to wait on common sense to prevail rather than take on the trolls.

Grayson · 22-05-2023 3:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627346#Comment_120627346

It depends though. A lot of sports had the criteria that the athlete had to be on hormones for a couple of years and have a minimum amount of estrogen in their system. Then statewide there was a blanket ban.

I think it should be up to the sport to determine what the inclusive policy is, not a complete ban.

monseiur · 22-05-2023 3:23pm

What does the phrase 'Freedom of Speech' really mean in Ireland in 2023 ? Who decides what opinions we are allowed to express publicly ? Is the antics of the cancel culture brigade not a form of censorship ? Are we becoming slaves to an uneducated, narrow minded, bigoted mob who's aim is to brainwash the free thinking masses ?......a modern day version of the Spanish Inquisition.

22-05-2023 3:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120625730#Comment_120625730

Don’t be using your common sense here 😂

SlowChris · 22-05-2023 3:36pm

Being woke is just pretending you care to feel good about yourself.

niallpatrick · 22-05-2023 3:43pm

Honestly I don't even know what 'woke' means, all I know is one morning I woke up things had changed that quickly in the 6 counties I didn't care any more. I can't change anyones perspective and nobody is going to re-arrange how they act feel whatever they feel is their right on my behalf. I'm more calm and sedate somewhat, still looking for inner peace but I'll get there.

Drumpot · 22-05-2023 3:53pm

I still don’t fully understand the phrase. Even after googling and reading stuff here. It does seem like a pejorative insult to call somebody woke but is there a chance that it has different meanings to different people?

Like I think of what woke is (when it’s being used as an insult) is a person that is effectively an obnoxiously self absorbed type personality who attacks anybody who doesn’t share their exact interpretation of something or some sort of cause they feel strongly about.

Usually they have a self righteous sense of authority on a topic that on one level looks moral and just, but they are taking a quite dogmatic approach to discussing it that doesn’t encourage discussion, just forcing people into complying or agreeing with how they see things or racist or sexist or homophobic or something derogatory…

On a side note, there’s plenty of people examples of people who lack the capacity for civil discussion that’s nothing to do with woke. The politics forum and the ukraine/Russia thread is a prime example. Try asking a question or making a stately that isn’t 100% full on western media pro ukraine stance and you will get the rabble rousing “putinbot” insinuation.

It’s not that there arent people who are trolls and putinbots, it’s that there is no safe forum to discuss the war objectively without insult. When I hear the term “wole” I think it’s like that sort of discussion whereby there is no discussion only somebody “educating you” in an extremely obnoxious manner, on why you are so wrong and then a bunch of other morons piling in to make you look like you are practically running the Russian war room.

They can only engage in this way, therefore they learn nothing and people just avoid them (which reinforces their sentiments- “if they have nothing to say I’m clearly right”). I’ve no doubt some of them will be chomping at the bit to have a go at me personally , that’s usually what they do, attack the poster instead of what’s said , it’s too satisfying to discredit somebody’s view with something they said another time that supposedly shows their entire views and mentality is flawed.

Ive said it before, the best posts I have done are ones I haven’t posted. Many people on boards simply don’t know how to engage respectfully. I have my moments when I have engaged in this act so don’t speak from an ivory tower, but I have tried to be better and as I said, not post when I think it might not be helpful for progressive debate.

Rothko · 22-05-2023 3:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627426#Comment_120627426

The part I'd disagree with is when you say that they mean well. They don't. They just like to tear other people down so they can feel good about themselves. You see it on here all the time.

When did being woke become a bad thing?

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