DCM 2023 Mentored Novices Thread

Sunny Dayz

Plan|Track|rest|Track|rest|rest|rest|rest

Actual|rest|5km|Track|rest|5km|rest|18km

I was a little bold and went above and beyond the club training plan this week. We were scheduled for no long run this week as the Roscommon 10 miler was last weekend's long run which I didn't do. I've a wee small procedure tomorrow and while I'll be grand after, I don't know if I'll be on form for 18km long run planned for next weekend so I did it this weekend instead to take the pressure off. Got 4 runs done covering 34km which I'm happy with. Pace for the 18km was 7:05min/km where I would put my easy pace at around 6:30/6:45 min/km - but I was running with a few others who were recovering from the 10 mile race the previous weekend and there was a lot of chatting to catch up on. My other two 5kms off plan were 6min/km and 6:30min/km respectively so not wild! Missed Mon's track session as we went to the bog which should surely count as cross training!!

Runner2023

I went to the gym on Monday and took Friday off completely. Managed to squeeze in everything else and ended up on 41km for the week. Easy runs and the LSR are coming in between 6:45 - 7:15/km at the minute.

I really enjoyed the Wednesday session. I had intended to restrict myself to 5:30-5:40/km but I haven't done any real running at "pace" for ages and I always struggle to time the first km properly. I did the first km in 4:56 and felt reasonably comfortable so I just settled into it and ended up doing the 5k at an average of 4:54/km.

I'm still none the wiser what my actual marathon pace is going to be. Provided it isn't impacting recovery, I assume there's no major issue with running these sessions a bit quicker than your likely race pace?

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829889#Comment_120829889

Great runner2023. LSR pace looks good and good to see the weekly mileage tipping over over 40km. Glad you enjoyed Wednesday, perhaps take the learning from that one as the pace definitely looks a little hot as 4.54 m/km is only 20 seconds slower per km than your 5k race pace which you had in your first post.

Like with other posters it is ok to be feeling out marathon pace over the next few weeks, I would recommend that you pear it back, it just won't feel as comfortable in a couple of weeks time when you are doing 8/10/15k's at that pace. Being on the slower end of things now is better than going too hard

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828694#Comment_120828694

Well done Sunny Dayz. What's really great to see is that the 18km was even slower than your easy pace. If you were chatting the whole time and this was the pace then it is totally in the right zone and where you ought to be. I don't know whether you can run with that group again but it would be great if you could as it'll help you along with company and chats as the runs get longer

skyblue46

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829889#Comment_120829889

Your mentor in chief is being very soft on you 🤣 Running at a pace of a sub 3:30 marathon isn't in any way a good thing to be doing at this stage of a novice plan. Lots of people are capable of running 5k at a pace that's 20 secs per km slower than their current race pace but it doesn't help you prepare for the main purpose of the plan which is to train to run 26.2 miles at a sustainable pace. There will be plenty of time post marathon to run as fast as you like 😉 Use these PMP miles days to practice the skill you will need in the early stages of DCM...that being to stick to your pace and avoid the temptation to tear into it.

Runner2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120830890#Comment_120830890

I appreciate the brutal honesty 😂

skyblue46

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120830977#Comment_120830977

The pleasure is all mine 🤣

Lumen

I tell my lizard brain that training fast is just training to hit the wall harder. 😀

kevinfkennedy

Week Two

Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?

28k in the bag .. Did a triathlon in Wicklow town with the club on Sunday so hopefully won't be too goosed from that for week 3.

Did you run the runs at an appropriate pace?

Ran at a slow pace for nearly all and upped it a little on Wednesday for the Pace run but not drastically.

The Strava group is excellent for motivation.

Question : My feet are going numb after about 6k on some runs particularly if it's hot. I've changed to 2E width runners and also have changed socks but it came back again on Sunday. This kind of comes and goes but it's a pain in the ass. Anyone have any experience of this ?

MiniMonstera

Last week update:

Excluding the lsr I did on Monday (as that was for prev week) I clocked circa 35km. Happy with that given hospital situation mid week.

I think 7.15 to 7.30 is my easy p/km pace. Sometimes I find it boringly slow so music is my saviour. Not really able to run with others presently, which is annoying, but it's not really my jive anyway. With 3 young hyper kids running is my quiet / down time, my saviour, truth be told 😆

I loved the marathon pace session on wednesday and the endorphins thereafter. Sunday was lovely too; even though at easy pace it was hot so got a good workout, and I expanded my well worn route, which was a really nice thing to do.

Taking a rest day today as last week has me wiped but gagging to get into it from tomorrow. Over and out for an early restorative night 🥰

Annie get your Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831746#Comment_120831746

I've had something like this previously and it was to do with how I was doing my laces. A girl in my local running shop showed me how to use the top eyelets and it made all the difference. You may already be doing this but in case not(!)

https://www.google.com/search?q=runners+knot+youtube&rlz=1C1YTUH_enIE1022IE1022&oq=runners+knot&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgBEAAYgAQyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiABDIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIKCAYQABiGAxiKBdIBDzEwMTExMjM0NTNqMGoxNagCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:f01f6533,vid:a5lUNW9wlpY

Sunny Dayz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120830375#Comment_120830375

yep I'll be running with them most weekends. Very small group of us last weekend but over the next couple of week I expect that to grow. There will be more of a variety of pace as the group grows but I don't plan on running quicker than 6:15/6:30 on long runs.

MiniMonstera

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831746#Comment_120831746

Yep, and for me it was laces too. Too tight down near the toe box and wasn't looping them properly at the top to secure the tie.

Clareview

How week 2 went for you...

Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not? Yeah 6 x runs in over the week, 42km total for the week.

Did you run the easy runs at an appropriate pace? Runs completed at 6.30 - 6.45/km pace approx bar the Pace section on Wednesday session which was around 6.10/km avg.. LSR worked out to a 6.35/km avg so still a bit too fast..

Louis 2018

Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not? Yes, 44km in total. LSR Sunday instead of Sat this week. Found the PMP to be a really good session and gauge as to where you are (or think you may be).

Did you run the easy runs at an appropriate pace? LSR was 6:31 pace/km which is the slowest of any LSR yet and found it comfortable with HR etc. in right areas. LSR gradually getting slower with 6:20 pace/km last week. I'm training off a 5:40 marathon pace and finding the runs are going well. PMP run on Wednesday worked out at 5:50/km overall as factoring in warm up and cool down but kept pace at 5:40 for PMP run itself. Like I mentioned this is a really good session. Other runs during week are generally 6-6:15/km pace.

So far so good. Just wondering has anybody any tips on stretching or what the best types of stretches are pre & post run?

Thanks

Clarecarrick

How week 2 went for you...

Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not? Yeah 4 x runs - 35k total for the week.

Did you run the easy runs at an appropriate pace? Runs completed at 6.24 - 6.30/km pace.

Did a 30 minute tempo session Tuesday that worked out 5.31/km

LSR worked out to a 6.37/km still a bit too fast??

I'm sorry if this has been asked and answered a million times but I’m hoping to land at 5.30 -5.40 marathon pace so

I can’t run more than 4 days so I’m following HH but am replacing one scheduled run with some speed work is this a mistake?

What should easy be for me? What should LSR be?

Thanks in advance 😬

Crunchy23

- Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not? Yes, 6 runs this week. A total of 50km

- Did you run the runs at an appropriate pace? My recovery run on Friday was done at 7min/km. I am slowly getting more use to trotting along at that really slow pace. I enjoyed the MP run. I done the MP section at around 5min/km. My easy pace was around 5.45/km. I know I could slow this down a little more as I get used to it. My LSR was at 5.51/km.

I am signed up for the fingal 10km and the Irish runner 10m next week. I don't want to loose all of the 13m on the Saturday before the 10m. What would the recommendation be? Would I be mad doing a LSR (maybe not the full 13m) on Friday and then recovery on Saturday?

I bought myself a pair of Saucony Triumphs last week. Its the first pair or real training runners I've owned. I'm used to running in much cheaper Nikes. The Sauconys feel a world apart.

Seifer

I got all of my runs in bar the recovery on Sunday for a total of 39.5 km of running for the week.

Tuesday's easy run I was happy with the pace.

For Wednesday's MP workout I ran at 5:00 min/km; do I see myself running the marathon at that pace? Probably not at the moment but it's not a pace that is challenging to me and I figure I can always slow down the MP workouts later in the plan.

Thursday's easy run I got bitten on the calf by something (most likely a horsefly) after 3 km so the desire to get home and wash it out quickened the pace 😝

Long run on Saturday was slower than last week at 5:51 km/min but still room for improvement. My hip felt kind of tight when I got home and unfortunately turned into a bit of an ache as the day progressed. Skipped the recovery run on Sunday to give it as much rest as possible but knew it wasn't right. Went to the physio today and got it diagnosed as a light TFL strain. Dry needling and some deep tissue massage and he was optimistic it should clear up pretty quickly.

Kind of annoying as I'm doing all of the various support exercises to try and strengthen my glutes and get all the various hip muscles firing correctly but at least there's still plenty of time to recover this early in the plan. It does make it unlikely I'll get to race the Fingal 10k but I may still run it.

kevinfkennedy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120833396#Comment_120833396

Great stuff I'll try that tomorrow.

kevinfkennedy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120833891#Comment_120833891

Great stuff

Kellygirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120837667#Comment_120837667

Hi Clarecarrick,

I reckon you’d be better off following Boards and doing the MP and Long runs from that plan rather than adding in your own speed stuff to HH. Maybe leave out the recovery run but if you can squeeze it in some weeks then brilliant.

In terms of paces, maybe slow down your easy pace a little if you can. Based on your 1:56 HM time you should be somewhere between 6:40-7:17 for easy and LSR is fairly spot on.

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120833938#Comment_120833938

Hi Clareview, well done and spot on. Your easy is in the right place but the LSR is still a bit too fast, get it down further if you can. The pace session is good as well, keep it up :-)

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838505#Comment_120838505

Well done Crunchy, I had to go back and check your stats before giving you a telling off for being too fast on the MP session however you are in and around where it should be. Once it was comfortable then you need to dial into that effort and build it over the weeks. If you can get your LSR and Easy into the 6m/km then you will be spot on across the board.

Are you signed up for the Frank Duffy 10 mile as well as the Irish Runner 10M? The concern here would be that you are racing back to back on constative weekends which would introduce a fair bit of fatigue and the risk of injury. If you have Frank Duffy 10m in August then you could use the Irish runner 10M as a training LSR run and add in 3 miles before it to bring you to 13 miles (think of it as a super warm up!)

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838618#Comment_120838618

Well done. For the MP we had a quick peak at your strava! On that session you sped up over the course of the session. As Skyblue46 mentioned a few posts above, the aim here should be that you are practising getting used to and hold the marathon effort, that control and ability to hold yourself back when you are feeling good is what will make the last 10k of the marathon ssssoooo much easier. For this week just try and hold the pace steady for the MP portion and also try and pick a pace that you do think you can hold for the Marathon, practice makes perfect..

Horse fly bits sounds terrible, hope your ok, nasty things, still not an excuse though, particularly after a session, keep it easy ;-)

And another bit of bad luck with the hip, keep doing what the physio says and I would definitely recommend not racing the 10k. You could participate and work it into your long run but only if the hip is fully better, there is no point racing now and it getting worse. Hip injuries can be tricky and you do not want a prolonged time out.

Clarecarrick

Ok thanks for that Kellygirl I’ll have a look over the boards plan again

witnessmenow

Getting ready to get started into training next week, really looking forward to it!

Still probably in a recovery week after the half marathon on Saturday, but I've gotten out a couple of times so far this week and feeling good so I'm definitely going to be ok to start next week.

I ran the half marathon at 6:17 pace, and I'm happy enough for roughly that to be the goal pace for the marathon too. Kilkee was hilly and I plan to be at least 1 stone lighter come DCM, so less of me to lug around!

Regarding my easy run pace, my conversational pace when running is between 6:45 and 7:00, I ran a 10 miler with one other person 2 weeks ago and we talked the entire way at an average of 6:45 (we both actually wanted to target 7:00, so need to watch out for that!)

But today I ran based on my heart rate in "aerobic" and I averaged 7:45! So a little confused on what exactly it should be.

Sticking that slow was a bit of an adjustment, but I did find after a few km you kind of get Into the rhythm of it and you don't need to hold yourself back as much. (Although my pace did increase during the run as the way back is downhill and I guess it was easier to maintain the lower HR)

skyblue46

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839417#Comment_120839417

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840566#Comment_120840566

Well done on getting some good solid training done. Just a quick question to you both if ye don't mind. What is the thought process behind targeting a MP which is as fast as your current HM pace? I would find that to be more than a little optimistic.

Tribal Wardfare

Week Two

Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?

All done. I ran 5 days (approx 42km)/ Cross trained 1 day / rested fully 1 day (and did light swimming 1 evening)

Did you run the runs at an appropriate pace?

I had some problems with Strava showing Avg Speed rather than current speed on my watch and my pace was often too fast. Decided to take it off of my watch and use Strava on my phone and use the watch to track current speed. (Anyone that can help with how to change apple watch strava to current speed, I would appreciate it. I don't have the Strava subscription but OK to add it, if it solves this annoying problem!). Easy run run was still faster than needed. Aiming for 6.45 and probably coming in around 6.30. MP I am trying to stay between 6-6.15/ km and I was better with staying around this. LSR was slower than last week and heart rate was nearly 10 beats per min slower at the end so I was very happy. Was trying for 7min/ km and was trying to keep between 6.45 -7.10. Avg speed came out at 6.47 so work to be done slowing down more next week. Might try 7-7.15 pace next time.

Ditto regarding the question on appropriate stretching.

witnessmenow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841740#Comment_120841740

Maybe its optimistic or ambitious, but I don't really have anything else to base it off! It's just a goal for now, I guess I'll know close to the time if it's looking realistic or not.

My thinking is that we are 3 months out, I'm going to put in a lot of miles between now and then, Dublin is a lot flatter than Kilkee and I want to be a decent bit lighter than I am now. I'm hoping a combination of those 3 things will keep the pace similar, but who knows.

Maybe it doesn't scale like this, but I don't think my current half marathon pace would be my half marathon pace if I was to run one in October

Clarecarrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841740#Comment_120841740

Yea agreed it’s optimistic but it’s just a target, my last half marathon 1.56 wasn’t a race I wasn’t actually aiming for a time I was just running and it was two months ago I’m hitting much faster paces since then so I reckon with 16 weeks to go I could knock more off. I want to aim high and if it doesn’t work out then it is what it is I suppose…