I resent spending money on cars, why isn't there an EV for me

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532531#Comment_120532531

Yeah a €2k brand new car 🙄 Since when can paupers afford brand new cars (without loans)?

Sold now anyway, one has got to be quick and alert rather than spend your timing moaning on the internet if you want to pick up a bargain

Also minimum wage is €11.30 per hour last time I looked. Times 40 hours per week times (30.5 (average number of days in a month) divided by 7 (days in a week)) = €1970 = the €2k I mentioned. Not €1.6k you mentioned

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532531#Comment_120532531

A litre of milk was 79c a year ago but here we are.

Buddy Bubs

I thought I'd stumbled into the ordinary level leaving cert man maths forum reading EV threads recently.

Everyone has the calculators out arguing about EVs

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532438#Comment_120532438

It's just impossible to make a 400-500km Fabia EV for 20k

Its quite possible your €20k Fabia ICE wont be purchasable either in the not too distant future.

Ford have already signalled the end of the Ford Fiesta from Jun this year as they move to EV so you can be sure the other manufacturers are going to be heading the same direction.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/manufacturer-news/2022/10/26/ford-fiesta-to-be-discontinued-as-early-as-next-year

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532927#Comment_120532927

Yep sad times

Cars will be like the housing crisis thanks to those stupid emission laws, many won't be able to afford cars in the future, just like they cant afford houses.

That's what they want, they want to get rid of car ownership, more people walking, on public transport, 15 minute cities where you don't have to leave, everything you need within 15 minutes.

Won't be possible to make small decent petrol cars anymore you'll have to buy a 50k car or a matchbox for 25k than can do 150km and if you want to charge them quickly it will be 75c a unit for 50kW or €1.50 a unit for 150kW rapid charging

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532978#Comment_120532978

Will you give over. Sad times? Buy a €2k Leaf (one month's minimum wage) that will have zero depreciation, the lowest tax and insurance class, 50-75% discount on tolls, pretty much zero maintenance, costs around €1 to fill up at home (or preferably from the sun for free), has zero cancerous emissions and won't destroy the planet. It is nippy and comfortable to drive and seats 5. When it eventually gets scrapped, the batteries will be taken out for another 20 years of useful life as stationary storage.

The good times are finally here!

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120533006#Comment_120533006

A 10 year old Leaf with 60km of motorway range, c'mon seriously, that ain't good times, you'll need to take a bus or train on the family trip or else be paying €100 in Ionity after spending 6 hours charging

The Leaf wouldn't do 35 mins on the motorway @ 120km/h

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120533020#Comment_120533020

Leafs can't charge at Ionity 🙃

Buddy Bubs

Isn't that what the 2nd hand market is for? I bought my 2nd ever new car last year, an EV. First was a Peugeot 206 in 2000 as a teenager that I certainly couldn't afford. Used cars all the way for 22 years until now. Couldn't afford the cars i liked new so waited for them to depreciate.

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120533329#Comment_120533329

That's it. In general, I would not buy a new legacy car now in 2023 especially at the prices they cost these days. Just keep the old one in good repair to stay on the road or buy another used car if you really need to. Eventually the EVs will become mainstream on the used market too and you can get one at a price you want to pay.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532978#Comment_120532978

Why are you lying? An MG5 long range estate can be bought brand new today for 35k.

How isthat a 'matchbox' or a 50k car?

If more people bought these cars new, then the 2nd hand market in 5 years time would be full of 15k 400km range BEV estates

And 5 years later, 5k 350km range BEVs

Akrasia

That's the very first generation of mainstream BEVs

If you can't afford a new BEV buy a used ICE, or a used BEV if you can find one, but if you are in the market for a new vehicle, BEV is far better for the long term emissions and increasing for your own resale value down the line

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120534123#Comment_120534123

Yeah. It takes more than a decade to replace the national fleet. People who can't afford new vehicles aren't the problem here, it's individuals and fleet operators who are purchasing new vehicles today who are the people who decide what vehicles will make up the fleet in 10 years time

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120534155#Comment_120534155

Have you seen the state of it?

Dacia did the petrol version for half it's price, the Dacia Logan :), how's that progress :)

Only people I see driving them are taxi drivers and a few good complaints of battery degradation on them once past the buffer, 400km out of one them in 5 years is very hopeful

veryangryman

Given the grant drop for

Home Insulation

Home Chargers

Solar Panels

Electric Cars themselves

in an already near-impossible market to aid the climate if you are on under 50K a year min.....

It really makes me conclude that only the middle class can afford to go about their work and leisure travel in an environmentally sustainable way. And given that most people reside in the lower classes, we are doomed.

Or maybe there's method to the madness. I doubt it.

ELM327

Who buys brand new cars regardless of fuel source?

Redfox25

There are cheaper electric cars now for well below 50k.

Mg4 springs to mind as a new car, not crippled with out dated tech or tiny range.

zg3409

Solar panels have massively dropped in price and the market is somewhat mature with lots of companies offering them compared to a few years ago. They removed vat in may 2023 and they are still vat free, so only a slight reduction.

EV chargers are a once off payment and the equipment should last 10 years. Again the market is mature and lots of companies offering the service compared to a few years ago. You can slowly charge from any household outlet.

EVs - some say the money is wasted as manufacturers just up the price. They did cap grant around 50k a good few years ago to prevent those buying 100k cars from getting the grant.

The second hand market is fairly mature with decent cars from 20k+ and basic EVs under 10k.

Some home insulation such as attic fibreglass insulation can pay back within 5 years.

But as you say the seai grant system typically helps those who own their own home and can afford a new car. It does little to help those renting homes nor landlords who want to improve their rental property.

I wonder if the money would be better spent on giving every home a free BER with a customised recommendations on what to do and having no grants. They could even help get multiple quotes by having an online bidding system as many people get ripped off during the quote process. I have got wildly varying quotes for exact same spec from different suppliers.

The good thing is used EV prices are dropping like a stone which will help the savvy poor buyer. But if renting it may be hard to get approval for a home charger from landlord and difficult to get a good esb plan if landlord blocks it.

veryangryman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121522442#Comment_121522442

Salaries of 50K i should clarify

ELM327

You can buy a brand new EV for mid 20's and a nearly new (less than 12 month old) one for below 20, Zoe and e-Up for instance.

The last EV I bought was a €2.5k nissan leaf! I'm lucky that I earn well in excess of the arbitrary salary threshold you mention, but when I bought my first EVs in 2016 & 2018 I certainly wasnt!

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121522442#Comment_121522442

The tiny ranges are 31/34k inc delivery charge, the one with the range is 38k inc delivery charge

Hardly cheap for a small hatchback

A little smaller Dacia Sandero is 18k inc delivery charge, the bigger Duster is 25k inc delivery charge

Until we get to those prices for an EV with good range like the MG long range 77kWh ( 500km WLTP ) it will be for the middle class.

crl84

Bit of a silly argument.

Non-middle class people generally don't buy ICE cars brand new either.

And once the middle-class EV owners upgrade their car, their second hand EV (with all the normal significant depreciation of a 2nd hand car) becomes affordable for the non-middle class.

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121522702#Comment_121522702

450km is hardly a "tiny range". 99.9% of journeys in this country are less than half that.

And using the Dacia Sandero, basically one of the cheapest cars on the market, to illustrate the point just highlights how silly it is. The roads should be flooded with Sanderos if they're so cheap and affordable to "the masses". But in reality, most people buy new cars far higher in price than the Sandero or Duster.

So basically it has nothing to do with EVs.

Brand new cars are generally only available to the "middle class". Which in itself is a moronic argument as there's plenty of working class people with loads of money to spend on a new car, and plenty of "middle class" people not able to afford a new car. No matter what the fuel source.

Thelonious Monk

Friend of mine bought a Chinese EV for taxiing, hardly a middle class profession. Neighbours are in social housing and got insulation and heat pump for free.

gammon199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121523011#Comment_121523011

In reality that 450km is 250km @ 120km/h on a cold wet day on the motorway

Working class buy Dacia, its a budget brand, middle are your VW, Toyota

An EV budget brand will come, its not here now

MojoMaker

What do you think BYD and MG are?

eagerv

What about those of us that have 2 or more EVs? Does that make us full fat Middle Class?😁

Kurooi

EVs aren't pushed because they're good for climate, they are pushed because they're good for corporate profits.

innrain

As getting on the PCP and changing any kind of car every 2-3 years is not good for corporate ladder.

SharkMX

Define middle class.

50k is NOT middle class.