Teaching about Gender

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120647584#Comment_120647584

Ah like I literally linked you to info on this, from a peer reviewed journal. Clear and consistent fMRI differences with nice reproducibility across different cohorts. Referenced in those studies are a rake more studies with very nice and clear p values. I'm not sure what exactly you mean when you say "science", it has very little to do with what I spent years in college studying and working in the area. You've no real interest in reading information, you just want to make it sound like you do.

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120647468#Comment_120647468

Bits and pieces at secondary but really you could avoid it completely bar in RSE, but again a little light on detail. I couldn't speak for primary. Mostly it comes up in other subjects, so like during gender roles in Home EC, maybe chromosomes in Science ect. Usually its kids just wanting info, like an open place to just ask. They often have confused ideas about what the words mean so it's helpful for them to be able to clarify. No one is pushing an agenda, I wouldn't wish such a difficult road on anyone, and some of the comments on here make me sad that the lovely trans kids I teach will have to listen to this sort of thing for so much of their lives.

Bobtheman

The source doesn't really matter if the points are true but your knee jerk reaction says it all.

Becoming a vegetarian is much different from trans.

We are obviously talking about different Paula's

As to scans sure that's good evidence and points in the right direction but you can't say yet its definitive but I will acknowledge it.

There are valid criticisms of psychology and psychiatry out there

I gave valid links.

Anyway I'm keeping my 3 kids away from this ideology until more proof

Bobtheman

https://youtu.be/C6gGn425yPk

Here she is

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648094#Comment_120648094

You never made any points - you posted two links (one of which was nothing to do with science) and told me to google a name (of someone who wasn't a scientist), that was IT - so I've no idea if they were true or not, or what they were intended to illustrate. Pretty sure you don't either.

And I see 13 mins earlier you did the same thing. No source, no point, just something I'm supposed to guess fits a point you might or might not have made and I might ot might not be able to guess. Here who is? And what's her point? And how does it prove yours scientifically?

If you don't answer those questions, I'm not clicking.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120647663#Comment_120647663

Awful shame that Paula wasn’t so active on protecting children when she worked at Nickelodeon.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2022-08-31/dan-schneider-nickelodeon-allegations-jennette-mccurdy

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648094#Comment_120648094

Yes, the old “keeping kids away from” has such a stellar track record in areas like drugs, sexuality, pregnancy, alcohol and more.

Kids don’t catch being trans from hearing about being trans.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648324#Comment_120648324

Kinda reminds of the "I'm gay" scene at the end of In And Out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCsEYjyf-9g

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120647368#Comment_120647368

You're clearly not willing to have your mind changed though. You haven't listened at all in any way to people with alternative views to you in this thread.

Bobtheman

I think I have acknowledged that there is some headway on brain scans acknowledged that

Acknowledged that people do feel they are in the wrong body and no issue with adults getting an operation

I think traditional gender Roles are changing all the time but the movement is in a rush to create more gender silos.

Life can be boring so I suppose declaring yourself a new gender attracts attention. I'm talking adult's here.

I'd read an article if one presented but then again why should I as valid points were rejected just because of their origin.

Anyway we shall agree to disagree.

I shall comment nó more.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648516#Comment_120648516

It was clearly pointed out that links were rejected not the points; because they weren't scientific - and you know this, you're just in denial.

We don;t know what point you were making, let alone whether or not is was valid - but you're not open minded if you expect random non-scientific links to be entertained by us, while demanding scientific evidence from everyone else, are you?

Bobtheman

The heritage article just simply pointed out the inconsistencies in the movement but best to knee jerk reject it incase it causes you upset

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648073#Comment_120648073

There's certainly an adjustment period, more for some than others but having open conversation as a staff and getting some training takes the fear out of it. I know it seems strange but it becomes part of the furniture after a while, schools are so busy and there are so many new things it's hard to keep up anyway. I've honestly had more issues with Andrew Tate type hyper masculinity this year than anything to do with trans "ideology" or whatever people think is going on. I have more conversations about shellac nails.

I love my job I have to say and the variance in the kids is one of the reasons. I worry about when they go out in the world and people who think "science" is research and actual research is not worth reading properly abuse them. Too many are afraid to leave the house as is.

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648620#Comment_120648620

Not prevalent but certainly there. I find it's just a lack of reliable information generally, most kids when appropriatly challenged or asked to actually think about what their saying do realize it's nonsense but there's a minority where it's really seeped in. I'd worry about the ease of access of violent porn too. These are far more real threats to kids than any supposed "trans ideology"

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648620#Comment_120648620

Sorry yes, a city school.

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646528#Comment_120646528

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646484#Comment_120646484

You both have opinions similar to idelogical zealots, criticism of an ideology is absolutely allowed where it is warranted. I didnt say anything that was transphobic I've countered every single accusation. But again it's fingers in the ears and accusations of transphobia. Can you tell me what was transhobic?? It amazes me how even if someone hasn't raised a child they could still not understand basic child safeguarding. Children believe what you tell them repeatedly, so let's not lie to them and introduce an ideology that didn't exist 10 years ago and is full of many contradictions. All of which you have conveniently ignored by you two. Let's also not introduce experimental treatment with no long term studies.

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120647963#Comment_120647963

A study of less than 90 people?? Will you please contact all the Trans Right Advocacy groups and explain that a mri can now be used with 100% accuracy to identify trans children and adults because these groups helped stop some ongoing studies last year on the brain. Apparently it was transphobic to try to find a biological connection to being trans.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648709#Comment_120648709

If believing in honesty and education makes me an "idealogical zealot" then so be it.

Posts answering the question "can you tell me what was transpobic?" are here:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641736#Comment_120641736

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641882#Comment_120641882

And I've got two friends who transitioned more than ten years ago, so it might be new to you, I've personally got more experience with the issues.

No one is saying "tell it to a child repeatedly" - strawman argument and hypocritcal lie. One class, an our or two, as part of a social/political/whatever it's called syllabus, and move on.

Seems to me it's one rule for us (if we say something, it must be backed up with seriously scientific-backed research for our point or we're idealogical zealots) and one rule for you (any lie or wild accusation is automatically fact and may not be challenged no matter how hypocritcal).

I'm still of the opinoin that you think they're going to be handing out pamphlets and pubery blockers - can you at least assure me you don't think that, or IS that actually what you think...?

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648324#Comment_120648324

Such a reductionist argument. Kids are exposed to drugs, early sexual experience, drink etc. It has various impacts, but generally speaking, the data shows it leads to lower achievement. Taking drugs for example, keeping kids away from drink absolutely has a more stellar record that early exposure.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648835#Comment_120648835

You seem confused about the difference between

1) Learning about drugs, and

2) Taking drugs.

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648841#Comment_120648841

Teachers would be queing up to teach SPHE

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648841#Comment_120648841

The course reforms are not just about learning about trans or gender. It is learning a point of view. Like, I don't believe in gender. Yet the course treats it as fact and not even coherently. A lot of trans people have their own view though strictly speaking, they don't believe in gender too. I was talking to a psychiatrist yesterday and one of the points that mentioned is that we dont see big changes in suicide rates commensurate with the huge increase (often a magnitude) in trans kids. It really doesn't seem to be social contagion and I think schools should not contribute to it.

delusiondestroyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058293932/teaching-about-gender

They will find that people wont entertain this bullshit, my child will be thought there are two genders end of. This idea of teaching children to accept stuff that isnt real or scientifically correct is insane and imo is tantamount to abuse. Telling a child there are 57 genders to pander to these peoples feelings is madness , little timmy can identify as a cat all he wants just dont try and force it on a child to reinforce timmys crazy beliefs and punish other children if they dont.

Its a sick world we are living in these days political correctness and the woke are out of control and it is starting to damage society in a tangible way.

LGBTQ agendas should be banned from schools along with religion keep school a place of unbiased factual learning.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649221#Comment_120649221

...we dont see big changes in suicide rates commensurate with the huge increase (often a magnitude) in trans kids.

Sorry, I may be misunderstanding you here, but are you saying that if a kid is trans, they are less likely to commit suicide if they transition? Surely that's a good thing?

delusiondestroyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120616171#Comment_120616171

Puberty blockers and people cheering it on, these people should be jailed for that its flat out child abuse.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648659#Comment_120648659

Indeed.

I find it amazing that there's so much controversy over what is taught at school but little or no controversy over what children have access to online.

Revision of the school curriculum is also about teaching children about what they might come across online so they know how to respond

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648709#Comment_120648709

You are talking about ideas

I am talking about real people.

Perhaps you should meet real trans people in real life to discuss how you think they suffer, are all mentally ill and autistic and are all not genuine trans. Maybe you right realise then that yes your views are transphobic because they are all about stereotyping trans people as fake and mentally ill and being trans as shameful and delusional.

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648787#Comment_120648787

And I responded to both your accusations here and here you conveniently ignored the response and fingers back in the ears -transphobia everywhere.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646052#Comment_120646052

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646013#Comment_120646013

Gender affirmation in children is an ideological position not education as I've linked above Finland and Sweden are no longer following that route because there is not enough long term studies and whatever short term studies they have has led them to believe that it is not in the best interest of children to follow such a route. If you teach or educate a child that they can change gender/sex and socially transition to the opposite gender/sex that is not education if there is no long term studies to say that this is the best outcome for children. If parents are being advised by gender affirming trans charities and gender affirming gender clinics that this is their only route to save their child because they will commit suicide if they don't without any studies to back up this assertion then that is not education its indoctrination. It starts with the lie of social transition that is being taught in our schools today. Gender ideology has no place in our schools until we have the long term data on childhood transition. Again if we had that how could anyone possibly argue with it? The below video is for an approach to gender incogruence that is being now abandoned in many parts of Europe yet we are following the US and UK model of care.

https://twitter.com/SwipeWright/status/1625339076533518338?t=gUMxt7vyrksj9Aa3HYb32Q&s=19

If a child of 4 who enters school and is consistent and persistent in her belief that she is a boy for the next 3 years she cuts her hair short and insists on playing "boys" games and wearing boys clothes do you think that child should be affirmed in their belief ? Do your trans friends beleive that child's belief should be affirmed?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649221#Comment_120649221

It’s teaching kids that trans people exist. So that if they are trans or when they engage with trans people, they know what the story is.

We don’t have a huge increase in trans kids. We have an increase in the numbers of trans kids who are able to be open to family and others about this fundamental aspect of their psyche.

I wish people would be honest about their reasons for not teaching kids about trans people.

Annasopra

Timmy the cat doesn't exist

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41058692.html#:~:text=False%20claims%20regarding%20student%20identifying%20as%20cat%20in%20Cork%20school%20reported%20to%20garda%C3%AD,-The%20school%20has&text=A%20Cork%20school%20has%20made,message%20as%20%22without%20foundation%22.

https://www.balls.ie/the-rewind/skibbereen-school-cat-540946

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/29/nebraska-lawmaker-litter-boxes-claim-debunked