Why I'll say no to a united ireland

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122182190#Comment_122182190

He was in the IRA. Do you know what they did?
What is the big reveal?

Dav010

Look, you are never going to convince terrorist supporting nationalists that they are anything other than completely right. The nationalists and unionists in NI are as bad, and good as each other. That’s why I say leave them where they are. Why would we want the expense of that grief?

FrancieBrady

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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122182687#Comment_122182687

I’m sure there are some who want to continue to ignore what is going on in their country but it is not going away. The conversation (reports from economists etc) has begun. You might whinge but I’ll bet whatever political party will be fully supporting a UI when a border poll comes. Why? Because it would be political suicide not to.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122182505#Comment_122182505

The British let him away with it. Gave him a free weekend in London and all even though he was filmed a few days previously loading a bomb in to a car which blew up shortly afterwards in the city centre injuring 26 etc. It is no big reveal he was an informer, you are right. Sure did not another IRA informer see him going in to a security services "safe house" during the troubles.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122182687#Comment_122182687

You are correct there Dav010, we here south of the border would never want the grief that a U.I would bring, never mind the cost. The extremists / paramilitaries are as bad as each other up there.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122182950#Comment_122182950

And there it is.

Politically Government parties have to be seen to support it, even though with everything going on here, the very last thing we need is a 20Bn addition to taxpayer cost and absorbing a million disaffected Unionists into our State.

No thanks.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183033#Comment_122183033

Why do you think they have to support it?
Answer: because they know hiw many want it to happen.
Those against it will cling to the negativity and the scary figures.

Fionn1952

The British let him away with it. Gave him a free weekend in London and all even though he was filmed a few days previously loading a bomb in to a car which blew up shortly afterwards in the city centre injuring 26 etc.

And this is supposed to be a DEFENSE of the British from Francis....

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183114#Comment_122183114

When you consider what the IRA did after that point including almost taking the PM out.
Not very competent at the infiltration were they? Or where they using Unionists and Republicans as training grounds? Or is all the talk of infiltration and informers glorifying themselves in hindsight?

If I was a Unionist I’d be seething about them allowing what happened. But the ones here seem happy enough to have been fodder.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183064#Comment_122183064

Wasn’t there a poll last year that showed support dropped significantly when those polled were asked if they would pay higher tax?

The more time passes, the less the younger generations think of it as a priority, particularly if it hits their wages.

I really don’t see the benefit.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183198#Comment_122183198

yeh thats why these folk get undergarments twisted when it’s shown the scary numbers are manipulated numbers, arrived at by ignoring and omitting.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183198#Comment_122183198

If you phrase a polling question with, 'would you be willing to pay more tax for ______', support plummets regardless of the question.

Fortunately or unfortunately depending on one's perspective, that isn't what a referendum would ask.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122180611#Comment_122180611

well I don’t know the case, but are you claiming that the soldier meant to kill the girl?

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122182190#Comment_122182190

I said many times that both sides did terrible things. The difference between us is that you think only one side did.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183886#Comment_122183886

Maybe if your ‘honourable’ government investigated it properly we might have found out.
Again and again they lied and lied, whitewahed, covered up and are still being dragged to account, and are trying to legislate to hide some more.

And you are too lazy to properly inform yourself. Then you whinge when they shaft you too.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183886#Comment_122183886

Would it be acceptable to you if it was through negligence rather than malice?

I hit a fox the other day in my car, late at night and it darted out onto the road. I felt pretty bad about it even though there was nothing I could do. Seems like you have less empathy for children than I did that fox, Downcow.....well certain children at least.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183843#Comment_122183843

You can be absolutely certain it is what the voters would ask before voting, fortunately.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184477#Comment_122184477

I don't doubt it....I'll sure as hell want projections on costs and benefits myself before voting.

The point I'm making is that the subtle art of polling is one that is easily manipulated by the phrasing of the question.

pureza

I've always been of the view that do you know,a UI will be cost neutral due to :

GB's divorce settlement

EU'S Solidarity contribution

Dublins net negative EU contributions and its inate ability to turn recessions and financial tightropes around

The figures when the situation arises will be pleasantly surprising ,watch this space?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184023#Comment_122184023

why don’t you ever answer a question?

I don’t know the case and since you are condemning me for not informing myself, you will clearly have informed yourself.

So did the soldier intend to kill this little girl?

It’s a simple question.

downcow

The death of a young girl in a ‘war’ situation is never acceptable, but it can’t be understandable.

You Are avoiding the same question as Francie. It’s a fairly simple question.

Do you believe the soldier intended to kill a little girl?

downcow

When do you think there should be a border poll?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184683#Comment_122184683

I did answer you.
It wasn't properly investigated.
That is what the family want after all these years i.e. your question and others to be asked about their daughter's death. The army and the RUC said that Aidan McAnespie's death was accidental, following years of campaigning for a proper investigation that too was found to be a cover-up and tissue of lies.

Considering the slog for justice here is it a 'caring, honourable British government'? There's a question for you.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184721#Comment_122184721

so you still haven’t answered. Do you think the soldier intended to kill the little girl - the answer would give an important insight into how your mind works.

As for Aidan McAnespie, are you saying this tragic death was intentional ie that the soldier intended to kill him? Certainly seems to be what you are implying and hoping Southern readers get the impression that the army were going around trying to kill people.
Mind you, your reference to this case should give southern readers an insight into republican mindsets. You would try to equate a non-intentional death with the PIRA setting out with the intention of killing.
…..and you should throw away the shovel on this one - i have the pleasure of knowing some of Aidans family members quite well and hence I followed this one closely.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184812#Comment_122184812

Do you think the soldier intended to kill the little girl - the answer would give an important insight into how your mind works.

What is wrong with you?
I don't know if they intended it or not, that is what a proper investigation/trial is for.

THE POINT is that YOUR government is evading and has on multiple occasions evaded taking responsibility and facing up to the questions surrounding all these deaths. Security forces have lied, whitewashed and covered up and your government let them do it. Again and again.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184841#Comment_122184841

you are still evading the question. I asked you if you THINK the soldier intended to kill the little girl? Not a difficult question, but will help everyone understand your thinking better

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184862#Comment_122184862

I answered you:

I don't know.

downcow

it is really interesting in this discussion, trying to question the professionalism of the British forces and RUC during the troubles, the best francie can come up with is a case where a judge has determined:

No shots were fired intentionally

Aidan was hit by a bullet which ricocheted off a road

The soldier was guilty of gross negligence

The soldier did not get a custodial sentence for his negligence

Considering there were 40,000 armed personnel in NI, it is simply incredible how few incidents like this happened. No more professional force in the world

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184905#Comment_122184905

There are a litany of cases where families want the deaths of their loved ones investigated properly,

Again you try to pivot away from the core issue.

The evasion, whitewashing and covering up of your 'honourable' government.

It doesn't matter a jot if there were a million soldiers here.

p.s.

Gross negligence is a lack of care that demonstrates reckless disregard for the safety or lives of others, which is so great it appears to be a conscious violation of other people's rights to safety.

p.p.s. The soldier was sentenced to 3 years in jail.

mehico

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184587#Comment_122184587

It is possible that in a future UI, tax revenue from economic growth in a unified economy would cover any required additional gov spending relating to the cost of unity regardless of any EU contributions.

As part of Professor John Doyle's comments at the Oireachtas Committee on the Implementation of the GFA during the week, he suggests that 10 years after unity, the NI area would run a surplus.

Going back to how polls questions are framed, it would be interesting to see results to a qustion along the lines "would you vote for a UI if it resulted in a stronger future economy?" compared to "would you vote for a UI if you had to pay more taxes?".

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184868#Comment_122184868

I didn’t ask if you knew or not I asked what did you think?