Why I'll say no to a united ireland

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916201#Comment_121916201

What I do have to accept is that, if the GAA mean what they say here, then they are miles ahead of some posters like yourself on here, who were strongly claiming that it was not an issue the GAA club hosting an event like this. Seems the GAA are on my page and agreeing with me that it would be a huge step backwards.

If the GAA stand firm on this decision then you will not find me wanting in recognising and applauding them for it 👏

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916478#Comment_121916478

Now we get the dis-ingenuous stepping away from what you clearly said.

 if you show me an example of an organisation that says it welcomes everyone and claims to be cross community, holding an event to celebrate someone who terrorised the local community

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916179#Comment_121916179

There was never widespread support for the PIRA, that is a myth in your head put there by revisionist republican historians.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916179#Comment_121916179

There was not widespread support for the IRA. Here south of the border Sinn Fein had very little success at the polls during the troubles, 1% of the vote was not unusual. In N.I. the SDLP was the main nationalist party during the troubles. They did not support the pIRA or INLA.

Here south of the border the pIRA killed some Gardai and army. We were reminded of that this week with the lonely death of Paul McAuley in Co. Tyrone, murderer of Garda McCabe and who stabbed his wife multiple times. Wonder when he stopped being a "good Republican", or if he still was one.

FrancieBrady

Voting was so polarised in the north that nobody would risk voting for a fledgling political party a vote and allowing a Unionist the seat. (A party who was censored, intimidated and had members shot dead btw as SF were)

SF had to build slowly and the when they were big enough and hit a tipping point the avalanche happened. Those who voted safe switched over en masse. The SDLP and it's supporters still whinge about that.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916653#Comment_121916653

There is only one person making up things in their head, and unsurprisingly you can't account or explain the emergence of the IRA, admit the terror that catholics endured in NI that turned them towards terrorism, or explain why the party that was the IRA'S political wing are now the largest party in NI.

You refuse to admit that violent oppression and subjugation leads to those suffering it to turn towards extremism despite countless examples of this throughout not only our own history, but throughout the history of the world, using Jews in world war 2 as a bizarre example.

No idea what your game is, but you are denying reality in playing it

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916663#Comment_121916663

Of course there wasn't widespread support for the IRA down here (was moreso confined to specific areas or families). We weren't being subjugated and oppressed by sectarian supremacists down here.

That proves my point, where that isn't occuring, there is no IRA.

The disgraceful treatment of NI Catholics was responsible for turning ordinary people towards extremism, and seeing it as the lesser of two evils.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916796#Comment_121916796

(1) Criminal thugs love an excuse

(2) There was never community support for the PIRA while they were killing, maiming and terrorising people

(3) Political support for Sinn Fein only increased after the PIRA stopped killing people

(4) "Violent oppression and subjugation" are clear overstatements of the situation in Northern Ireland, certainly post-1974.

(5) The oppression in Northern Ireland wouldn't even rank in the top 500 most oppressive regimes in written history.

Those are facts that display your opinion to be based on nothing much.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916838#Comment_121916838

The notion that those voting for the SDLP were voting against the IRA shows how little they know or understand about NI.

The idea that people suddenly trusted SF and began voting for them after '98 is also a sure sign they don't know what they are talking about.

Miniegg

And by the way, does nationalists not supporting republicanism, as you say, make alot of these arguments on here redundant?

I routinely hear the GAA, Irish language, Irish flag, bashed here as being ultra republican, so how does this square up in your minds? Blanch152, you went as far as to say the Irish flag should be made redundant despite it being the flag of a vast vast majority of moderate Irish people who respect what the flag explains or tried to achieve.

Downcow labels the Irish language signs as republican extremism. Downcow and Francis McM label the GAA (the largest sporting and volunteer organisation on this island) as an ultra republican sectarian organization, which obviously is ridiculous.

When it suits your arguments all nationalists, or anything Irish, are seething diehard republican, yet on the other side in this argument, the vast vast majority of them never supported republicanism.

I would expect support for republicanism was larger than you would like to admit, given the horrific circumstances northern catholics found themselves in.

And the tarnishing of the Irish language or the GAA, a sporting body with admittedly strong links to the Irish national identity, is unionist supremacism in action.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916856#Comment_121916856

(1) That may be the case. But a small portion of every population are criminal thugs. It doesn't explain how NI became the most dangerous posting in the world for BA soldiers when the IRA were in full deployment.

(2) If you or your loved ones have been similarly killed, maimed and terrorised, extremist groups can seem like the lesser of two evils. I neither condone or support it btw, but I'm not blind to how it came about.

(3) Franciebrady answered this, I couldn't do better

(4) So you admit violent oppression and subjugation happened before 1974? No idea why you drew your line in the sand in that particular year, but there were hundreds of years of it before 1974 you know.

(5) Wow, where is this list you speak of? Or are you just personally familiar with 500 other incidences of oppression and so are educated enough to speak on the matter (you clearly didn't live through it).

It is possible, but also possible you are just a bluffer. Would have to leave it up to anyone reading your posts to decide.

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916653#Comment_121916653

says the lad who never lived through the conflict and therefore wouldnt have much of an idea. The PIRA would not have survived as long as they did without quite a lot of on the ground, public support. Thats the reality

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916943#Comment_121916943

I know quite a lot of people (my parents being two of them) who would publicly say they were SDLP voters, and instead vote for SF. Made life easier.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916838#Comment_121916838

"Sectarian supremacists"? The biggest group which killed people ( 60% of all people killed ) during the troubles were the extremist Republicans. And many would think they were sectarian, sometimes obviously ( like in the murder of completely innocent unionist politicians like Bradford and Edgar Graham ), sometimes not so obviously. They were also responsible for over 99% of the bombs and explosions, massive destruction of property, damage to tourism and industry ( by kidnapping and sometimes murdering foreign industrials etc ).

Bishop Daly, the Catholic bishop of Derry, said the greatest enemy of the Irish people was the IRA.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121917989#Comment_121917989

And the electorate disagreed with the bishop rewarding SF with the status of most popular party with nationalists/republicans. You think SF are still run by the IRA.

You can try to square that circle at tge expense of your credibility.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121917989#Comment_121917989

I'm pretty sure you don't understand what sectarian means. You alluded to ROI being more sectarian than NI, then on the flip side argued that there was no support for what you deem to be the "sectarian IRA". Which one is it?

There is only one group in NI that overwhelmingly displays sectarianism with their orange lodges, hateful bonfire season and supremacist marches, all which inherently refute or refuse Catholicism or Irishness. They don't try to promote their own culture, because it seems impossible to do so without bashing nationalists. They see equivalence between this and people speaking Irish or playing Gaelic games, which inherently don't hurt anyone except those who wished they were all stamped out. That is the hollowness of the supremacist mindset.

Though their cough has been softened (mainly by US pressure), they continue to this day, damning dual language roadsigns, refusing to fund the Irish language, outrage at sport stadiums being built, etc etc etc, on and on and on.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121918106#Comment_121918106

I did not say there was no support for the IRA. Read what I said.

"There was not widespread support for the IRA. Here south of the border Sinn Fein had very little success at the polls during the troubles, 1% of the vote was not unusual. In N.I. the SDLP was the main nationalist party during the troubles. They did not support the pIRA or INLA.

Here south of the border the pIRA killed some Gardai and army. We were reminded of that this week with the lonely death of Paul McAuley in Co. Tyrone, murderer of Garda McCabe and who stabbed his wife multiple times. Wonder when he stopped being a "good Republican", or if he still was one."

As regards sectarianism, in N.I. there were 3000 out of 7000 places reserved for Catholics when the RUC was set up. In the early days of the UDR, there were 18% Catholics, so at least some catholics were employed. Contrast that with this country, where DeValerea said ( and I paraphrase) if he had one job to give and two applicants, one catholic and one protestant, he would always give the job to the catholic. There were virtually no protestants in the Gardai or Irish army in the 40s, 50's, 60s. As noted before, the minority population ( ie Protestant ) decreased from 10% of the population to 3 % in the Republic of Ireland, where in N. Ireland in the same period the minority population there ( ie Catholic ) increased from 31% to forty something per cent.  And then you say you are pretty sure I don't understand what sectarian means! You have been reading an Phoblocht for too long, a chara.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121918063#Comment_121918063

The electorate around the country really only rewarded SF when SF/IRA surrendered their weapons / got the semtex put beyond use. Some would think agent McGuinness was quite helpful in that.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121918634#Comment_121918634

Never read it, am not a supporter of physical force republicanism, but am merely calling out loyalist supremacy and oppression when I see it. you can label me all you want to try to downgrade my what I say, but anyone who knows my posting history will see through this.

I will say the DUP under Little Pengelly has been a breath of fresh air so far and hopefully an end to this guff I am talking about at a political level, which hopefully filters down.

Fyi, your walls of "stats" containing no context whatsoever are not convincing in the least. As you said before, maybe the Protestants along with the Catholics were after the cheaper fuel and Xmas presents in NI ; )

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121918634#Comment_121918634

That isn’t supported by the facts. SF had support and the party you believe are run by the IRA are now the leading party in the north.

Your credibility is going down the pan here.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121918763#Comment_121918763

I never said SF did not have support. Read what I said. "Here south of the border Sinn Fein had very little success at the polls during the troubles, 1% of the vote was not unusual. In N.I. the SDLP was the main nationalist party during the troubles. They did not support the pIRA or INLA."

Yes we know the support SF has now.

As regards who is behind SF, remember what the latest both the Gardai and PSNI had to say on the matter.

It is your credibility which went down the pan a long time ago.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121918789#Comment_121918789

So you again are digging down.

People didn’t vote for SF because of the IRA but the party who you say are run by the IRA are now the most popular party in both jurisdictions??

Something is not credible in your position.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121918106#Comment_121918106

This post takes the award for the most bigoted, prejudiced post on the thread. Congrats

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919141#Comment_121919141

Think that was the one about ‘nationalist Yourh Clubs beside hunger strike memorials.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919141#Comment_121919141

How?

I am not in any way labelling all Unionists, so why would you be offended?

But those who participate in what I mentioned above, it is absolutely clear why they do it.

Calling out bigotry is not bigotry, as much as it irks you.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919224#Comment_121919224

I try with most posts, but there is so much wrong with this post that demonstrates unbelievable levels of prejudice and blinker-wearing, that it would take an essay to put it right

downcow

Here is a great example of how a United Ireland is disappearing over the horizon.

Here is a young nationalist and Gaelic player. He is clearly northern Irish. He has the ability to walk into any international team on these islands, and was groomed by the FAI, but it is wonderful to see him so committed to his Northern Ireland community. Onwards and upwards!

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919224#Comment_121919224

Because your posts are so far from the reality.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919273#Comment_121919273

Somebody playing for NI has put paid to a UI?

You are getting a bit desperate there downcow.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919309#Comment_121919309

[No Francie. I think everyone can see you are choosing to miss the point, because you don’t like the point.

Here is someone who should be your easiest young person to convince that his future lies in a Republic of Ireland. Republicans simply are not winning this argument, trying to undermine Northern Ireland, but guys like Conor are not really interested in that nationalistic, jingoistic nonsense

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919557#Comment_121919557

One guy downcow who may or may not have a variety of reasons to play soccer for a few years.

As I suspected, you are getting desperate.