Why I'll say no to a united ireland

downcow

Here’s an article (todays Telegraph) that outlines the big loss for us in United Ireland. I completely understand how it would be win win for you guys, but definitely not for us.

“If you rent in Dublin and command net earnings of £2,563 (€3,000) a month, you could enjoy the same standard of living in Belfast for £1,769 (€2,071) a month, according to Numbeo.

Consumer prices are 35% lower in Belfast than in Dublin, groceries are 14.4% cheaper and utilities are 45.5% less expensive.”

“At the end of 2021, Paul decided to follow the example of friends who had escaped the housing shortage by moving to Belfast.

The Galway native now works as a trainee solicitor for a Belfast law firm and pays £265 in monthly rent for an en-suite room in a house in Cregagh.

“I left because I was turning 28, but I was living at home and couldn't afford to move out,” says Paul, who is now 30.

“Most of my friends still in Galway live at home with their parents and the vast majority are my age.

“Food and electricity is cheaper here, as is eating out.

“I don't drink any more and there's a local pub in east Belfast where it costs £1 for a soft drink — whereas in Galway it costs €2.80 (£2.39).

“Galway is great, but when I was living there I felt I couldn't save any money and wasn't moving ahead in life.

“Belfast is a really friendly city and I feel a lot safer there than I would in Dublin.

“I live in east Belfast, but there's no trouble. Everyone is nice to me and I go to local football games.

“A few lads I met at the football brought me to local pubs.”

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910541#Comment_121910541

The IFA still permit sectarianism in a number of clubs.

Windsor Park in particular has always been adorned with UVF/UDA flags banners and murals.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910763#Comment_121910763

You are talking other nonsense. I haven’t been at A Linfield game in decades, but I seriously doubt that the stadium is adorned in UVF &UDA flags. Maybe it’s a cross community programme 😂 because those two flags don’t usually share the same space.

if you can provide any evidence of Linfield flying paramilitary flags, then I will absolutely condemn it and say that it is disgraceful sectarian behaviour

edit# I just reread your post, and I think you might be implying that there are UDA and UVF flags at Northern Ireland matches – absolute nonsense

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910067#Comment_121910067

Here is what our local councillor has posted tonight. You see he is spot on with all the sentiments I expressed. It is depraved (I thought gaa said it didn’t host party political events)

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910787#Comment_121910787

No, I will say internationals inside the stadium there’s been significant change and effort to ensure flags flown are not paramilitary. I was there in the nineties and it wasn’t pleasant to say the least. It was ten years or so since I’ve been there for an international but for the sake of this discussion let’s take it that’s not changed back to the bad old days.

Club games not so much, I suggest you try a few. I’ll retract my previous word ‘adorned’ as it implies the flags attached to the Windsor stadium itself; I’ll categorically state they were not. What I will say is on match, the stadium surrounds/way in & fans carrying flags and banners that reference loyalist paramilitaries/paramilitary groups is not enforced with as much fervor to put it mildly. Larne v linfield was my last experience in 2019 inside the ground. They cannot deny this around their home/ signature stadium. The continued sectarian chants will go hand in hand with knuckle draggers, I doubt they’ll ever fully stamp it out but that’s not as easy solved I’ll concede.

The away colors I mentioned were a UVF flag fashioned in to a jersey, there’s no other way of denying it. Their colors have been some variation of white/red/blue for generations. The FA could have and should have stepped in and made them change it.

Like most things in NI, from my time living there to my time now visiting there; is it getting better, yes. Will it ever be perfect, no.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910654#Comment_121910654

Wrong again, Francie. The EU cannot veto this.

to be really factual I am a tiny bit wrong and you are a big bit wrong. This apparently is not actually the Stormont break in action. The stormont break is to give either side in Stormont veto over amendments made to EU laws already in place. This was another similar arrangement that was negotiated in the negotiations that never happened!

This is an entirely new law that the EU has brought in, and I will be surprised if Stormont does not say no to it. UK, then has the ultimate say, but I will be surprised if they go against a Stormont ruling. EU have absolutely no veto, - what some of you guys argued adnausea sometime back?

maybe republicans took their eye off the ball during negotiations, but this was an important aspect of what was agreed.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911092#Comment_121911092

Well, I think that is another discussion sorted. The best you can compare is few individual supporters misbehaving or your claim that a parliamentary organisation has monopolised two colours. This is really childish stuff. It would be like me pointing to all the GAA clubs who use colours similar to the IRA used, i.e. green white And orange.

you have had to go to Linfield, the most Unionist fan base in the British Isles, and make ridiculous allegations that they were implying something by the colour of their shirt. Does this not point out to you how far the GAA need to travel to even catch up with Linfield? This is why they get themselves compared to organisations like the orange order

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911483#Comment_121911483

So 'important' you didn't know about it?😁😁

I too hadn't paid too much attention to this 'stunt' but you are correct, it is an 'applicability motion'. There has to be credible concerns about east-west disruptions or the prospect for very real potential harm to local craft producers.

The veto will not be applied if the government assesses that the new law would not create a new regulatory border between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, or if exceptional circumstances apply.

If the government vetoes the law the EU could ultimately take "appropriate remedial measures".

...

maybe republicans took their eye off the ball during negotiations,

In your desperation for a win you come out with more 'them and us' bitter nonsense.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911517#Comment_121911517

This is NOT a GAA event downcow. No amount of you ignoring that is going to work.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911483#Comment_121911483

There's a distinction, as Downcow points out, between the Stormont brake, the mechanism for objecting to changes to EU rules that already apply in NI, and the applicability motion, the mechanism for objecting to new EU rules being applied in NI.

If what we're dealing with here is an objection to the application of a new rule, if the applicability motion (which takes the form of a motion to apply the new rule, which can only pass with cross-community support) is defeated, the UK government has to ask itself a number of questions, one of which is whether the new rule would create a regulatory border — if it would divert trade or impair the flow of goods. If it wouldn't, it can't be blocked by an applicability motion, in which case the UK should simply ignore the motion and apply the new rule. Before making a decision about this, the UK has to discuss the matter in the Joint Committee. It is the UK that makes the decision after the discussion in the Joint Committee; the EU doesn't have a veto. But if the EU thinks the UK has made the wrong decision it does have the right to trigger the dispute resolution process, the outcome of which is binding on the UK (and of course also on the EU).

So Westminster can't simply fall over backwards in the face of the defeat of an applicability motion in the Assembly; it's not like one of the UK's bizarre absolutely binding non-binding referendum results. Westminster has its own decisions to make, and is accountable for them.

If the UK does decide not to apply the new rule, instead of raising a dispute (or in parallel with raising a dispute) the EU can require the UK to discuss in the Joint Committee alternative measures that might be adopted to protect the integrity of the single market while avoiding the need for a hard land border — protect it, that is, from whatever risk the rejected EU measure was aimed at. The UK has an incentive to agree to these, since it avoids the risk of losing in the dispute resolution process. Any measures adopted in the Joint Committee are, I think, not subject to applicability motion. Plus the EU can unilaterally adopt measures in response to the situation, but they wouldn't apply in NI.

It's obvious that a key question here is, would the new rule that the DUP seeks to block divert trade or impair the flow of goods? The case that it will do this must not only to convince the DUP; it must be one that the UK government is happy to stand over and defend.

And here the DUP may be on shaky ground. The new EU rule deals with geographical indications for craft and industrial products. We already have these for food and drink products — Armagh Bramley apples must in fact be from Armagh; Scotch whisky must be from Scotland; Parma ham must be from Parma. There can now be similar geographical indications for certain manufactured products — e.g. Murano glass must be from Murano; Limoges porcelain must be from Limoges.

So the question comes down to this; would a new EU law which had the effect of prohibiting the import into NI of fake Murano glass and similar products, unless relabelled, divert GB-NI trade, or impair the flow of goods, to a material extent?

The UK government's current position is no, it wouldn't. There's unlikely to be much fake Murano glass and similar products circulating in GB. Even though the new EU directive won't apply there, the government considers that GB's fair trading rules will produce a similar outcome, so their won't be many products that can be sold in GB but not in NI, and so no material diversion of trade or impairment of goods flow. Having adopted this position the UK would, I think, be embarrassed to have to adopt a contrary position in the Joint Committee, and doing so wouldn't be good positioning for the ensuing dispute process, should the UK block the application of the new measure.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911517#Comment_121911517

The Irish tri-cour are not the “I.R.A.” Colours to state that they are comparable to the UVF flag is definitely the “discussion sorted” if that’s depth of your point scoring.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911596#Comment_121911596

As others have said, this is a stunt by Jeffrey. And we know the DUP have a penchant for strategically messing up and probably will ultimately here.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911599#Comment_121911599

When downcow can brand children as 'nationalists' because of their proximity to a memorial or a flag, he can brand anyone using the tricolour as the 'RA if he want.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910174#Comment_121910174

Of course, there are no non Irish GAA players.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/04/25/clare-senior-footballer-ikem-ugwueru-being-black-and-irish-is-a-very-big-thing-for-us/

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910856#Comment_121910856

It just goes to show how aligned with nationalism and sometimes Republicanism the GAA is. Hardly surprising when some GAA grounds and memorials are named after members of the IRA. I could not imagine any other sports facility ( eg soccer golf tennis horse-riding motorsport whatever ) ever hosting an event to glorify a sectarian terrorist.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910856#Comment_121910856

It just goes to show how closely aligned with nationalism and sometimes Republicanism the GAA is. Hardly surprising I suppose when some GAA grounds and memorials are named after some IRA.

I could not imagine other sports facilities ( eg soccer, tennis, golf etc ) being used to glorify a sectarian terrorist.

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912256#Comment_121912256

"I could not imagine other sports facilities ( eg soccer, tennis, golf etc ) being used to glorify a sectarian terrorist."

This is the Liverpool FC supporters club on Disraeli Street in Belfast.

Google "Brian Robinson UVF" if you're not sure who he was.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909094#Comment_121909094

You accuse others of a haste to victimhood, there is nothing more hasty about putting the cloakhood of victim around you on these pages than those who compare what happened in Northern Ireland to Jews under Germany or non-whites in apartheid South Africa. The oppression in Northern Ireland wouldn't even rank among the top 100 oppressions the world has seen. The victimhood mentality of good republicans has meant that they have failed to see the horrors of the actions they support.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910763#Comment_121910763

The IFA permit sectarianism???? Seriously?

Surely you mean the GAA who permit sectarianism through allowing names of grounds to promote sectarian terrorist killers, allow commemorations of hunger strikers and other killer terrorists to take place on their grounds and in their clubs. Someone is probably out there trying to rename a pitch Pearse McAuley Park.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911599#Comment_121911599

Not this nonsense again. Whatever its origins, the tricolour's reputation has been completely destroyed by the misappropriation of the flag by terrorist organisations. It is now a black mark on this country.

droidman123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912652#Comment_121912652

Do you think the union jack puts a stain on the uk? Considering the atrocities committed under it?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912791#Comment_121912791

That's a matter for the British people.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912811#Comment_121912811

But lots of British people in this very thread denounce the tricolour. Will you be posting to point out that it's not their business to do so?

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912652#Comment_121912652

Do you mean its reputation is destroyed in Northern Ireland or worldwide?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912839#Comment_121912839

I am Irish, I am denouncing the tricolour.

In my opinion it is not by business to denounce other country's flags.

I don't denounce someone else holding an opinion, you can denounce all flags if you want, someone British can denounce the tricolour, someone Irish can denounce the British flag. I will post my own opinion, as I do, including where I think an opinion is founded on nothing, but I don't police all other opinions. Flat-earthers can hold that opinion, I will point out the flaws, but I won't police them holding that opinion.

An example is people holding the opinion that what happened in Northern Ireland was akin to what the Jews suffered, I can't and won't stop them holding that opinion, but I will point out how wrong and how awful that opinion is, and what it says.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912876#Comment_121912876

In Ireland. Our flag has been taken and abused by the likes of the PIRA. The placing of the tricolour on the coffins of PIRA terrorists is an awful stain on the flag's reputation.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912628#Comment_121912628

A Liverpool f.c supporters club overseas to Liverpool is a bit like some Celtic supporters clubs, which have displayed banners which have promoted terrorism. The supporters clubs themselves do not engage in sport as its primary activity or have sports grounds or facilities of their own. No, what the GAA is hosting is on a different level.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912629#Comment_121912629

That’s not the comparison - “we had it just as bad as….”

As long as you have state back oppression and terrorism you will have those who oppose them.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912643#Comment_121912643

Again IRA sectarian commemoration bad….anything similar on the opposing side “not my problem”.

It’s the selective commemoration; either you clamp down on all or you allow all. What you cannot have is one side dictating.

Given the nature of the conflict, nationalist commemoration is always going to be heavily viewed as celebrating someone’s terrorist. Conversely state agencies and loyalist terrorists being so intertwined leads to groups being the larger celebrated.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912652#Comment_121912652

In your wanton eyes only. Flown worldwide is hasn’t the same association ever.